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Thread: Game of Thrones Season 8 (The Final Season) (SPOILERS possible)

  1. #196
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duchess of Verona View Post
    No Azor Ahai. No Valenquar. What was the point of all the build up just for the ceiling to fall in?

    And WTF did Bran do with all of his superpowers? What happened to all the lore and prophecy? Like I said, the D's have fucked it all up.

    That said, I started reading the books again (I couldn't get into them before, only got about halfway through book 1) and I am much more invested this time around. Its been great seeing the characters' inner monologues and motivations.
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  2. #197
    Elite Member dolem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysfang View Post
    And WTF did Bran do with all of his superpowers? What happened to all the lore and prophecy? Like I said, the D's have fucked it all up.

    That said, I started reading the books again (I couldn't get into them before, only got about halfway through book 1) and I am much more invested this time around. Its been great seeing the characters' inner monologues and motivations.
    As always, books are always better than TV shows/movies (there are a few when the movie is better, but it's rare).

    I didn't hate the episode, but I think the shows were in general better when the D's were following GRRM's work rather than going out on their own.
    C_is_for_Cookie likes this.

  3. #198
    Elite Member whitetigeress's Avatar
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    You know.. the show started with the Starks, it could end with the Starks.
    One of them may take the throne
    Not Crazy Dany
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  4. #199
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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  5. #200
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    This too LOL

    Waterslide and lindsaywhit like this.
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  6. #201
    Elite Member Waterslide's Avatar
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    ^That guy has such vibrant green eyes! I lol'd at the part where he says the thing about boy, you better start fucking your aunt.

    I have so many things to say about last night's episode, but most of it has been discussed...

    I did see this interesting set of tweets earlier today. I have no idea if this link will work, but this guy breaks down why Game of Thrones feels different that it used to. It's a very long thread, but I thought it was interesting and probably can apply to all shows.

    https://twitter.com/DSilvermint/stat...56091261136896

    As for that thing about the Ds getting bored and wanting to move on...sorry, that's not an excuse though. You started this and wanted to keep being a part of it, you can't just duck out because you're bored. If that's the case you should have stepped aside and let some new blood into the storytelling process.
    "AND WHEN YOU BECAME DENISE, I TOLD ALL YOUR COLLEAGUES, THOSE CLOWN COMICS, TO FIX THEIR HEARTS OR DIE."

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenna View Post
    I enjoyed Qyburn's quick death. And Cersei casually sidestepping the Cleganes was almost comic relief. I didn't care much who killed Euron either, so long as someone killed him. But after YEARS of making us hate Cersei, I definitely feel we deserved a better payoff than that. It was too easy and there was no personal confrontation of any kind. I am glad Arya didn't do it, though. It would have been too much to have her take out the Night King AND Cersei. Jaime going back to her was nauseating, but he's been whipped by her his whole life and he really was the stupidest Lannister, so it seemed like something he would do.

    I didn't hate the episode like some of you seem to. It had some good moments and spectacular effects and I definitely wasn't bored. But it did leave me feeling unsatisfied.
    See that’s the thing...while I was watching it, truly my heart was pounding so on a visceral level ,I liked it and reacted positively to it in that way. But once that’s gone, you start to relive it on an emotional level...and that’s where it was lacking. I can accept Dany going crazy and burning the city down, I can’t accept the really lame way the villains were killed off..my bloodlust wanted more! So unsatisfying on an emotional level .

  8. #203
    Elite Member Tiny Pixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterslide View Post
    ^That guy has such vibrant green eyes! I lol'd at the part where he says the thing about boy, you better start fucking your aunt.

    I have so many things to say about last night's episode, but most of it has been discussed...

    I did see this interesting set of tweets earlier today. I have no idea if this link will work, but this guy breaks down why Game of Thrones feels different that it used to. It's a very long thread, but I thought it was interesting and probably can apply to all shows.

    https://twitter.com/DSilvermint/stat...56091261136896

    As for that thing about the Ds getting bored and wanting to move on...sorry, that's not an excuse though. You started this and wanted to keep being a part of it, you can't just duck out because you're bored. If that's the case you should have stepped aside and let some new blood into the storytelling process.


    I actually like what this guy said, which is what I've been saying for a long time to people complainging that "niah niah niah the show is less good because they don't have books anymore"
    Well, partly, but have you seriously read the books?
    Because the first 2 are good, and then it starts to get fucking messy, full of sub plots, sub sub plots, and sub sub sub plots that are not going anywhere, and that Martin doesn't know how to handle either !
    To me the best example is Qventyn, that character kind of comes out of nowhere, is around for 2 books I think? And then is just burnt to a crips by dragons ... having accomplished NOTHING for the plot in the meantime. It really felt like Martins was like "God what am I gonna do with that dude? Oh jee, let's burn him."
    And it was nothing like the Red Wedding or Ned Stark's death, that actually moved the plot forward.

    So for all its writing flaws, the show actually does what Martin has difficulties doing: tying things together in less than 10 decades.
    Because seriously, Bran has been a tree for 3 books now, Dany has just left Mereen, Sansa has been going down the Vale for an entire book, Arya's been selling fish and mussels for 2 books now ... JEEEEEEEEEEE get to the point George!
    Fluctuat nec mergitur
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  9. #204
    Bronze Member Oliver66's Avatar
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    Game of Thrones is my favorite season
    I like to watch in my free time.

  10. #205
    Elite Member Tiny Pixie's Avatar
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    Copy/paste of a very interesting FB post from a friend of mine who’s a living ASOIAF encyclopedia 😂



    As we’re hurling towards the finale, here is GAME OF THRONES Season 8, episode 5 – The Bells recap. **** Ring the bells for SPOILER ALERT **** Long ass post is coming


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    This episode starts a few days after the events occurring in the previous episodes. Directed by Miguel Sapochnik, the battles specialist, I thought The Bells was visually striking while a bit weak on the story telling (but that applies to the whole season, really).


    At this point, I know a lot of people are criticizing D&D’s writing and they are right: the writing has been going downhill since season 5, IMO. From the moment they ran out of books material, the series felt rushed and dumbed down. However, as GRRM has sold the story to HBO, including his ending, the main characters’ arcs will be vastly the same in the books. So if you dislike the characters arcs (like Jaime’s arc, for example, who seems to have done a full circle), they will unfortunately unfold in the same way in the books (although the road to get to that specific ending will have more depth).
    I have read some articles that said the show’s main ending wouldn’t be satisfying… Well, it won’t be the show runner’s fault per se, as GRRM has said himself the ending would be the one he envisioned, and he was afraid fans would dislike it. That being said, I have read many (but not all) of GRRM’s other works and I have to say he is not good at writing satisfying endings (those who have read/seen Nightflyers or A Song for Lya will know what I am talking about). He often writes romantic bittersweet open conclusions to his stories with a hint of WTF twist. So this is what I am expecting from Game of Thrones so far. I am enjoying the show for what it is and I am sure the ending will leave me a bit disappointed. Even though it had its weaknesses, it is and will be for a long time the best TV show ever written. No other show has ever been as spectacular, visually striking, well-acted, well written (talking about the first seasons). Most importantly, I have never seen so many people calling themselves fans of a series before and that is amazing in itself. From your 15 years old neighbor to your doctor, most people enjoyed being invested in that show.


    But anyway, enough ranting about the show; let’s talk about the episode itself.


    The events start at Dragonstone, where Daenerys Targaryen mourns the loss of her true friends and allies, Jorah Mormont, Missandei and of her child, Rhaegal. Saddened, she refuses to eat or drink anything Varys sends her (which is probably a good choice as, from my understanding of the episode, he was probably trying to poison her with the food brought by his little birds). Meanwhile, Varys continues to conspire against Dany, writing letters to reveal Jon’s true parentage to the other westerosi lords (I don’t know whether he actually manages to send any of the letters, but I’m guessing we will have our answer in episode 6). Varys is now convinced Daenerys has inherited the “Mad” Targaryen side while Jon, on the other hand, would be a better leader, with the better claim to the throne. Therefore, the Spider tries to rally Jon to his cause against Daenerys, which Jon refuses, as he chooses to remain loyal to his queen. Eventually, Tyrion rats Varys out to Daenerys and the Targaryen pretender executes Varys with dragon fire. I was disappointed by the fact Varys made a very quick exit… It felt rushed, as most of this season anyway. While I was happy Varys kept fighting to protect the people, I thought his scheme was quite careless, and this was very much out of character. We are talking about the mastermind who helped smuggle Targaryen children out of King’s Landing when Robert Baratheon took the city, the patient strategist who waited 30 years before finally getting revenge on the wizard who made him a eunuch. The Spider was the master of the Seven Kingdoms and he had been for decades, serving 4 kings. But he somehow decided to act carelessly, talking very openly about treason to Jon and Tyrion (in the throne room and on the beach, surrounded by soldiers who pledged their service to Dany…), he didn’t care when his little bird told him Dany’s unsullied were watching her etc. I mean, I can believe he might have been overwhelmed by the situation and he felt he needed to act quickly or die trying… But still, it was too careless for Varys. It was also strange for him to decide out of the blue to shift his loyalties to support Jon, just based on the fact Dany was saddened by the sudden loss of her closest allies. It happened too quickly…


    It also seems Tyrion isn’t a mastermind anymore either; at this point, he is just another servant who betrayed his only friend in the Seven Kingdoms and who actually gives crappy advice. I am so sad for Peter Dinklage. His character used to be one of the best on the show and he seems insignificant now; he’s just another bystander. The fact Tyrion thought Daenerys might show mercy to Varys was also quite baffling… How could he expect her to overlook Varys’s betrayal in her current set of mind? Come on Tyrion, you’re cleverer than that… You deserved better than that.
    Right after Dany told him he would soon join Varys in the afterworld if he wronged her every again, Tyrion went off to free his brother Jaime, who had been captured by Dany’s army as he was trying to cross the Targaryen lines to get to King’s Landing (he was recognized because he didn’t remove his golden hand). The hand of the queen proceeded to send away Dany’s unsullied before freeing Jaime, mirroring what his brother did for him when he freed him from KL’s dungeon when Tyrion was wrongly accused of Joffrey’s murder. After everything that happened, Tyrion still has a soft spot for his family: he asked Jaime to infiltrate KL, to find Cersei and to talk her into abdicating and surrendering the city. Once it would be done, Cersei and Jaime would sail to Pentos on the small boat that would be waiting for them in the bay (thanks to Davos, the smuggler). Jaime, Cersei and baby Lannister would therefore have a shot at a new life together in Essos while Tyrion would be facing Daenerys, hoping for mercy.


    It is interesting to note that, at this point, Tyrion still believes Daenerys is the best option and that she is capable of mercy. He thinks that all she wants is the iron throne and that, if the city surrenders, she will call off the attack and let the innocents live. At this stage, Tyrion is trying to convince himself if he has Dany’s word that if she hears the bells, she will call of the attack, everything will be fine. It’s true that, up to this point, all Daenerys wants is the capital and the Iron Throne, so she can call herself queen of the Seven Kingdoms. So, Tyrion’s scheme wasn’t bad per se. Let’s just say he thought he was dealing with a reasonable ruler but it’s clear Dany wasn’t in the right set of minds to show mercy.


    Meanwhile, Sandor and Arya cross the Stark lines to infiltrate KL and get their respective revenge on The Mountain and Queen Cersei.


    Another important event occurs the night before “the Last War”: Jon and the northmen arrive in Dragonstone/King’s Landing (if I understood correctly, the northmen went directly to KL while the rear guard hasn’t arrived yet but Daenerys wants to attack at dawn anyway). Jon is immediately aware of Dany’s low spirits and he recognizes she needs company. I thought the moment Jon and Dany share in Daenerys’ room was very moving. Daenerys opens her heart and lets him know she is aware she is not Westeros’ champion; Jon is. The westerosi do not love her, they only fear her. Of course, Jon telling her he loves her sparks a little bit of hope in Dany. But he quickly backs off, remembering she is his auntie and he can’t be with her romantically anymore. I think this is the final betrayal for Daenerys. She lost friends, she has just executed one of her closest advisers and she’s being turned down by the man she loves.


    The next morning, Jon, Davos, Grey Worm and Tyrion, along with the dothrakis, the unsullied and the northmen (from what I’ve seen, the knights of the Vale didn’t follow Jon to KL) meet the Golden Company outside of the city gates (that being said, Harry Strickland totally looked like a prick on his white horse), awaiting Dany’s signal to start the battle. However, Dany and Drogon very quickly take out Euron’s Iron Fleet as well as the Golden Company (why even include them in the show? They were wiped out in 30 seconds) but conveniently left the Lannister army standing on the other sides of the gates (why not take them out in the process, she came from behind the gates, so she must have seen them?). Dany on dragon back then proceeds to burn the ballisters/scorpions posted on the city walls.


    While Jaime failed to infiltrate the Red Keep to convince Cersei to surrender and has to get in through the back door (sadly encountering Euron Greyjoy in the process… That was hands down the stupidest fight in the entire series. Pilou Asbaek played Euron as an obnoxious dick/annoying pirate redneck during the whole show, a caricature of the great character he is supposed to be in the books. I was glad Jaime ended up killing him, but I was disappointed Euron delivered a “fatal blow” to Jaime – I mean…. Jaime lived an awful amount of time afterwards, but let’s say that from the moment Euron let us know he “killed Jaime Lannister”, we knew the twin would never survive the episode), the Lannister guards notice there is no way they can win against Daenerys and they surrender. And King’s Landing bells finally ring; see a flicker of relief on Tyrion and Jon’s face.


    I think that, at that very moment, Daenerys has to make a choice. As far as I understand it, she was standing by after destroying the Iron Fleet, the Golden Company and the ballisters, according to plan. But in my opinion, she wasn’t expecting “Cersei” to surrender the city or, at least, she hoped she wouldn’t. We’ve seen in the previous episode that Dany intended to bring fire and blood to KL anyway. She wanted the people to think Dany offered Cersei a chance to surrender and that Cersei waved it, therefore blaming Cersei for the bloodshed. I am guessing this is why she promised Tyrion she would call off the attack if the bells rang: she didn’t think it would happen. And although she was holding the city, Daenerys decided she would make it personal and she proceeded to burn the city to the ground, igniting her father’s old wildfire caches in the process, echoing Aerys’s call, “burn them all”. At first, I thought Daenerys was just going to take the Red Keep down, and Cersei with it. The Red Keep, built by Daenerys’s ancestors hosts the Iron Throne and it was the symbol of Westerosi royalty. If she intended to “break the wheel”, it made sense for her to destroy the Red Keep, so no tyrant could ever hold the Iron Throne ever again. But she decided to burn the whole city down, and its people, innocent or not, with it (I like to think she took that decision when she saw the people running away from her in the streets). Dany’s actions prompted her ground soldiers to attack a defenseless Lannister army, starting with Grey Worm. I quite liked the way Jon reacted to the KL attack. He tried to prevent the northmen from taking part to the fight, but he obviously couldn’t and he had to stand by, useless, while Dany and his’ armies were pillaging, killing and raping. Eventually, Davos, Jon and the northmen had to fall back outside of the city.


    I wasn’t surprised by the fact Daenerys decided to burn her city down. Anyone who thinks this was “sudden” hasn’t been paying attention for the past 9 to 20 years. IMO, Daenerys has never been set up as a truly benevolent queen/hero. There was underlying cruelty behind most of the thing she did. We didn’t really pay attention to her cruel side, because from our perspective, Daenerys was the “good guy” and the people she was fighting were the “bad guys”. In the show alone, Dany walled the qartheen nobles alive, she crucified the nobles of Meereen (among whom Hizdar zo Loraq’s father), she wrecked Vaes Dothrak, she set Slaver’s Bay (Dragon’s Bay)’s fleets on fire, she burned the Tarly alive, never even thinking about keeping them prisoners and so on. It’s easy not to question her actions in the show, before season 8, because the viewers are supposed to be rooting for Daenerys, breaker of chains. But if you look closely, Jon Snow had a similar story, quite similar choices to make, but he never resorted to cruelty. When Jon chose to execute someone, he delivered the blow himself (he didn’t have his dragon/servant doing it for him) and owned up to it. I don’t think there is one occurrence in which Jon enjoyed someone’s death. To the contrary, Dany is showed jubilating when one of her enemies is taken down (same goes when her brother Viserys kicks the bucket). But until season 8, Daenerys only took down what we perceived as bad guys and she really meant to be a good and benevolent queen, counting on her close friends and advisors to tame the dragon in her. And I think Dany descended into “madness” specifically because her advisors failed her consistently. When she arrived in Westeros, she had 3 fully grown dragons, 8000 unsullied and a large khalasar. Cersei wasn’t waiting for her with 300 scorpions/ballisters. Cersei didn’t have a battle plan at all. If Daenerys had done what she initially intended to do, which was taking King’s Landing, Cersei would have been removed in no time with no to little harm to the city. Instead, Tyrion and Varys advised her against taking KL with full force like Aegon once did and advised her to seek the support of westerosi lords instead. This led Dany to lose part of her fleet as well as the men sent by Highgarden/Dorne. After this debacle comes Jon Snow, who asks her to fight his battle against the NK. Daenerys goes North and loses Viserion, Jorah Mormont, half of the unsullied and half of the dothraki in the process. She also learns she isn’t the true Targaryen heir; her lover is. At every turn, she was urged to be careful, to wait, to be just and patient. She knew what she could do, the power she had, but her morals (and her advisors) held her back. And every single time, she suffered tragic loss. Now she is finding out that those she put her faith in, enough to turn her away from her goal – the Iron Throne – and hold her back when her instincts told her to go for it, have lost faith in her. The character’s evolution isn’t “sudden”, it has been a low, slow burn. And it was foreshadowed in the books and the show (+ GRRM said a few years ago one of his characters would be the Walter White of ASOIAF and we had long suspected it would be Dany). I guess Dany was fed up of playing by the rules while Cersei deceived her and won at any turn, so she lost it and she beat Cersei at her own game. I am not saying what Daenerys did was right, but it was consistent with the character and with Dany’s new strategy: she knew the westerosi would never love her and her advisors were playing her, so she took the matter in her own hands. With her showing her full force, there is not a lord in the Seven Kingdoms who would dare oppose her and think they’ll live (well, apart from Sansa maybe). However, Dany was supposed to free future westerosi generation from tyrants, but she became one herself and the future generations will remember her as the dragon queen who killed innocents. However, I think destroying King’s Landing, the symbol of the westerosi power, might indeed “break the wheel” and discourage any potential future tyrant from ever rising up.


    In my opinion, what Daenerys did was absolutely not right, but it not only her fault, the rampage is also the symbol of her people and of her advisors’ failure. Varys and Tyrion were supposed to guide her once she would be in Westeros and they have only failed her. They also notice Daenerys was feeling increasingly lonelier and sad and, instead of helping her through the hardships, they only let her down. Varys plotted against her, Tyrion feared her too much to keep her company and Jon knew she shouldn’t be left alone but couldn’t reciprocate her feelings or even communicate with her when she needed it the most. The wildlings, the northmen and the Starks also blew her off. Sansa immediately antagonized her for (IMO) no obvious reason (there is probably an underlying reason but, as I stated earlier, I didn’t think it was justified; it could have been explained in a better way) and the wildlings and the northmen praised Jon for doing exactly what Dany had been doing (i.e.: flying on dragon back). She was also probably the victim of misogyny, as Varys made it clear westerosi lords would find it easier to support a male claimant to the Iron Throne.


    Two last things about Daenerys: (1) I thought the fact her wardrobe showed her slow descent to “fire and blood” beautifully. When Dany was acting as a savior/benevolent, happy leader, she was wearing white (Meereen, her arrival in the North); when she grew into a moderate Targaryen/just conqueror, she wore black (when she left Meereen, when she arrived in Dragonstone); and finally, as she started to lose her friends and started noticing the westerosi didn’t like her and she would have to resort to fire and blood, she had streaks of red in her outfits (i.e.: during the funeral pyre at Winterfell). And finally, she was all clad in Targaryen colors during the battle of King’s Landing: red and black, showing that she finally “remembered who she was”, the blood of the dragon. (2) it Is believed Targaryens carry trait of insanity in their bloodline (and in all valyrian families in fact). It can be explained by the fact it is suspected valyrian families used magic to mix their blood with dragon blood; this explains why only valyrians can bond with and ride dragons. As a result, families like the Targaryens were massively inbred. They had to keep the bloodlines “pure” so they could keep bonding with dragons.
    Some Targaryens are born “mad” (like Viserys, for example) while other Targaryens “may not display madness when they are younger but can develop it as the years go by, especially when circumstances encourage it” (this happened to Aerys II during the defiance of Duskendale and more recently to his daughter Daenerys during the siege of King’s Landing). In the books, Daenerys is worried about the madness trait that runs in her family and she often wonders whether she could be afflicted by the illness. It is also interesting to note that when Targaryens are subject to fits of madness, it is often linked to dragon dreams or dragon bonding and, obviously, with fire (Aegon the Unlikely and Duncan the Tall died in the Summerhall Tragedy, Aerion Targaryen tried to drink a cup of wildfire to turn into a dragon, Aerys II wanted to burn KL with wildfire, Daenerys burned KL with dragon fire).


    I think Daenerys will follow the same path in the books, but her road to “madness” will be more subtle and, as the books are POV based and Dany is one of the main characters, the readers will have some insight in her exact thoughts.


    And finally, I thought Emilia Clarke did some of her best acting playing Daenerys in this final season.


    During Drogon’s rampage, The Hound convinced Arya to abandon killing Cersei, saving Arya’s life in the process (thank you Sandor, but maybe you could have done that speech the night before, so Arya wouldn’t have been in KL in the first place?).


    Then of course, the Cleganebowl happened YAAASSS. As Qyburn convinced Cersei to take shelter in Maegor’s Citadel, the team, escorted by Sir Gregor, encounters the Hound in the staircase. Sandor took down a couple of Kingsguards before having a go at his brother. It was interesting because once un-Gregor saw his brother, he broke free of Qyburn and Cersei’s influence (Qyburn made a quick exit in the process as The Mountain bashed his head on the wall). Reanimated Mountain acted the same way fire wights (people brought back to life by Red Priests) do: they are usually overwhelmed with a certain purpose and live to achieve said goal (for Beric Dondarrion, it was protecting King Robert Baratheon’s legacy with the Brotherhood Without Banners, Lady Stoneheart – books only – lives only to avenge Robb, as for Jon… We don’t know yet). I was satisfied with the way the apocalyptic cleganebowl fight ended; Sandor noticed his brother couldn’t (fucking) die the regular way, so he sacrificed himself and died in dragon fire with his brother, finally fulfilling his revenge arc (he hated his brother more than he hated fire). That being said, let’s take a minute to honor Qyburn’s memory: one of the most loyal guys in the Seven Kingdoms. He remained loyal to Cersei until the very end and honestly served her very well (he made un-Gregor, he helped Cersei blast the Sept of Baelor with wildfire, he built the giant scorpions to defeat Dany’s dragons. He was certainly a good Hand of the Queen).


    And as the chaos occurred, as we all expected, Jaime and Cersei finally died together in the bowels of the Red Keep. I have read a lot of people were disappointed with Jaime’s character development. I am not. I would have loved him to mercy-kill Cersei when she told him she didn’t want to die, but apart from that, it was satisfying. The show left out the valonqar part of the prophecy, so Cersei and Jaime’s deaths are consistent with the show lore. We’re left wondering: does it mean Jaime will be the valonqar in the books (it is still possible, GRRM said the main characters’ ultimate ending would be the same in books and show, but some details would be different. Maybe GRRM’s Cersei will die under the same circumstances, but at the hands of Jaime) or is Daenerys Cersei’s valonqar? The latter is possible. The prophecy states “the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you”. It is possible “valonqar” is a gender-neutral word and can refer to a female as well. Daenerys is the youngest of Aerys Targaryens’s children, qualifying her as the “little brother/sister”. I do think this is far-fetched though, and the show didn’t bother with the valonqar prophecy at all. But it could make sense, as Cersei’s demise has been (in)directly caused by Daenerys, the youngest sibling of Rhaegar.


    About Jaime Lannister: I think Jaime evolved a lot throughout the entire series. I believe he was always supposed to be a nice guy deep down (he only killed Aerys Targaryen “The Mad King” because he threatened to burn the whole city and kill innocents in the process, Jaime was always nice to Tyrion although every other Lannister – except for one uncle – showered him with hate, …), but he was nevertheless ready to commit atrocities under the influence of Cersei. It is true that show Jaime learned to respect and love people beyond his family when his lost his hand and met Brienne. However, it didn’t prevent him from going back to Cersei many times before “The Bells”. I have to say there are lots of differences between books and show Jaime. In fact, books Jaime has intercourse with Cersei for the last time at Joffrey’s funerals. After that, Jaime grows estranged from Cersei. He is still loyal to the Lannisters, he does the siege of Riverrun, but he isn’t sent to Dorne by and for Cersei to “rescue” Myrcella (it is Ser Balon Swann who is sent to Dorne and, btw, Myrcella is mortally wounded by Gerold Dayne but she is still alive at the end of ADWD). To the contrary, show Jaime remained very loyal to Cersei herself, despite her blowing up the Great Sept, which caused Tommen’s suicide. Show Jaime only turned his back on Cersei when she revealed she wouldn’t be sending the Lannister army north but would keep plotting against Daenerys instead. Therefore, show Jaime only grew apart from Cersei for 2-3 weeks at most while books Jaime hasn’t been close to Cersei for at least 1,5 years (they are apart for most of a Feast for Crows and a Dance with Dragon). However, Myrcella and Tommen’s deaths didn’t occur (yet?) in the books, it is hard to say whether it will bring Jaime and Cersei closer. But in any case, Jaime’s determination to get away from Cersei has been consistently stronger in the books.
    In any case, show Jaime wasn’t able to forget Cersei despite having a chance at living a happy life with Brienne, knowing Cersei, the woman he had loved his whole life and done unspeakable things for would die alone in King’s Landing. I think Jaime going back to Cersei was just him embracing what he really was/wanted, just as Daenerys did. The way he pushed through the chaos to find the woman he loves made him very human to me, and that is what I liked about the character. No matter how hard we try, sometimes, you keep going back to your addictions and meeting someone people encourage you to be with because “they’re much better than your ex and perfect for you” doesn’t help.
    I also thought Jaime and Cersei dying together was just right. At first, I was also a bit disappointed Cersei didn’t go out fighting Dany or doing something more significant. But then, even though Game of Thrones is a fantasy show, the events in King’s Landing have always involved less magic/fantasy (until Qyburn brought back un-Gregor and until Dany showed up with her dragons, of course). It was more of a court intrigue. So, I thought it was fitting for Queen Cersei to die in a less spectacular way. I liked the fact Cersei and Jaime noticed they were trapped in the Red Keep and knew they were going to die down there. Lena Heady did a fantastic job in that final scene. We saw a very vulnerable Cersei and I thought what she was saying when facing death seemed fitting and “real”. Despite everything she had done and gone through, Cersei wasn’t ready to die. Her “(…) I want our baby to live (…) please Jaime, don’t let me die. Not like this” truly broke my heart. She was one of the strongest and best characters (in my opinion) in the whole series and her death was probably the only time we saw her being human and vulnerable.


    Arya Stark has survived her trip through chaotic King’s Landing, she has experienced Daenerys’s wrath first hand. I didn’t really get the white pony moment at the end? She wakes up under a rain of ashes and somehow, a surviving white horse is waiting for her? I’m guessing there was some symbolism in that last scene, but anything beyond the fact she was supposed to be the knight leaving on her white horse, freed from her revenge list was lost on me. I was also wondering whether the horse had possibly been sent by Bran to get his sister out of KL, as she is the champion of the Many Faced God and could still be of some use to him? I guess we will find out on Monday!


    Now let’s make some predictions for the finale?


    I think Daenerys started off her journey wanting to be a benevolent queen, but it is just not in her nature; she is vain and selfish and hungry for power. I can’t wait to see how this will play out. Dany didn’t want to share the power with Jon/Aegon and, as a result, she has been horrible to him, asking him to hide his parentage so everyone would believe she has the better claim to the throne. At this point, she still thinks Jon has betrayed her by revealing his true parentage to Sansa. So, my guess is Dany is going to try to take Sansa/Winterfell down (if she is clever, she has already sent Yara to Winterfell, as Pyke isn’t far from the Stark stronghold), forcing Jon to declare as Aegon Targaryen, son of Rhaegar. Jon will choose his family over his loyalty to Daenerys and he will be forced to kill Dany/to send her back to Essos, in exile . Dany could also decide to take Yara’s ships and go back to Essos with the Unsullied and the dothrakis (this latter “ending” has my preference as it would mean Dany has “achieved her goal”: she broke the wheel in Westeros, we fire and blood. She retreats in Esoos, where she is loved and needed, with her armies and her dragon, telling the westerosi she will return with her dragons if a tyrant rises up again. That would be my preferred ending, but I don’t think the show will be that subtle.


    I am hoping Drogon doesn’t die, it would break my heart… Jon could take him, but although dragons have been known to take a new rider when their initial rider dies (like Aegon I’s Balerion the dread or Alysanne’s Silverwing), never has a Targaryen been able to ride more than one dragon in his lifespan (but to my knowledge, it is because dragons live longer than humans, so the dragon tends to outlive his rider and not the contrary (so the show could still bond Drogon and Jon). The best ending for Drogon, IMO, would be him taking off to Valyria, where he seeked refuge while Dany was in Meereen. We could discover Drogon layed eggs in Valyria, setting up the possibility for future dragons to hatch.


    Jon will refuse the throne (he has said so consistently haha), set up a council of lords to rule the Seven Kingdoms, so there will never be a tyrant to rule them all anymore. Then he will likely set off to the lands Beyond the Wall to play with Ghost forever.


    I am guessing Sansa will rule the North while Arya will travel the world to discover “what’s west of Westeros”.


    I also think Jon, Tyrion, Davos, Arya will be important in Dany’s demise, as they witnessed Daenerys burning the city although the Lannisters had surrendered.


    I don’t know about Tyrion’s fate. He betrayed Daenerys by freeing Jaime after she warned him she would execute him the next time he failed her. So she could execute him (my guess is Brienne is pregnant with a Lannister heir anyway)… But I would like him to survive and die in his own bet, as he wanted. But if Tyrion is really GRRM’s favorite character, I’m guessing the author gave Tyrion a more spectacular ending, therefore he should die. I just hope it won’t be at the hands of Drogon/Dany…


    I would love it if we found out Bran hasn’t been telling us the truth about the WW and we see the realms of men are still facing a threat. I hope we will have some insight into Bran/the three eyed raven’s ultimate plan. I still stand behind the theory Bran/The great Other/the Lord of Light/The Many Faced God are the same entity (this would explain why Melisandre’s magic is more powerful when she’s at the Wall) and they don’t want men to survive. Let’s not forget Bran insisted Sam told Jon the truth about his parentage exactly BEFORE the battle against the Night King, knowing he would tell Daenerys and the events would unfold as they did. He MUST have had a reason (if this isn’t explained, I will shit on the show forever).


    My ending after seeing season 8: Jon abdicates and goes in exile north of the Wall, saddened by the murder of Daenerys (guy will never want to be in a relationship ever again if all of his girlfriends end up dead). I’m guessing he will want the Targaryen line to end with him, so no mad king can rise again. Then we see Gilly, Sam and the kids. Samwell is writing the “Song of Ice and Fire” the story of his friend Aegon Targaryen, of the battle against the dead and of Daenerys Targaryen destroying KL. Then the camera cuts back to Jon, years after the events of Game of Thrones: as he has been reanimated by the Lord of Light through Melisandre, he became an agent of the Many Faced God and is cursed to wander the Earth until he fulfills his duty to the god of death (valar dohaeris). I would love him to become the equivalent of Coldhands; a former commander of the Night’s Watch wandering north for hundreds of years, waiting to help the next heroes against the WW or the 3ER. We find out the WW threat is still very much present. THE END (that would be bittersweet, wouldn’t it?).


    I can’t wait to read everyone’s thoughts now  let me know what you think!
    Waterslide likes this.
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    Paris, Nov 13th


  11. #206
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Saw this on Twitter and had to share. This about sums up episode 5.

    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

    http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic4098_9.gif Healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

  12. #207
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Apparently Daenerys is a Republican.



    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  13. #208
    Elite Member dolem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny Pixie View Post
    Copy/paste of a very interesting FB post from a friend of mine who’s a living ASOIAF encyclopedia 
    Thank you! I've seen SO many posts online from people saying that her break was out of nowhere. She has been both caring and brutal depending on which side you're on.

  14. #209
    Elite Member choozen1ne's Avatar
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    This is so disappointing

  15. #210
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    So that happened. I expected nothing and was still disappointed.
    avatar made by green_queen@LJ

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