Login to remove the ads!
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

  1. #1
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,382

    Thumbs up Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    K, there are some spoilers in the article.. not a lot, or major ones, but still.

    Anyway, this should give people who are kind of in the dark about the appeal of this film to the 1 in ten of us to whom it resonates deeply with. Interesting read.

    The other side of the mountain
    Jan. 30, 2006. 01:00 AM
    DAVID GRAHAM
    LIFE WRITER


    Twenty-two-year-old Chris Smith lost it during the last 20 minutes of Brokeback Mountain.

    The Ottawa law student was so troubled by the ending he missed much of the film's nuance and had to see it again a week later.

    The heartbreaking saga of two gay cowboys in Ang Lee's movie Brokeback Mountain, based on the Annie Proulx short story of the same name, takes place in Wyoming in the '60s. But for many gay men the film resonates on such an emotional level that 1963 Wyoming could be present-day Toronto.

    They don't believe Brokeback Mountain is an historical romance to be appreciated in the context of its time and place, like Guess Who's Coming to Dinner let's say, or Pride and Prejudice.

    And at least one psychologist who counsels gay men in Santa Fe, N.M., is convinced the tortured relationship between farm hand Ennis del Mar (Heath Ledger) and rodeo cowboy Jack Twist (Jake Gyllenhaal) represents a psychological condition that exists in many gay men today.

    In his book The Velvet Rage: Overcoming the pain of growing up gay in a straight man's world, Alan Downs says that a sense of self-loathing fostered in childhood colours the way many gay men live their lives and sabotage their relationships. It is Ennis in particular, brooding and taciturn, who symbolizes the rage described by Downs.

    According to his theory, gay men who experience profound shame as children get the message that they are unworthy of true happiness and as adults rage against the memory of this message. They often overcompensate by creating a façade of perfection.

    "We have more expendable income, more expensive houses, and more fashionable cars, clothes and furniture than just about any other cultural group. But are we truly happier?" he asks. "The disturbing truth is that we aren't any happier, by virtually any index measured today."

    Sadly, these successes rarely result in what he calls "authentic joy." They become "validation junkies."

    Downs, who was married briefly in the 1980s, is convinced gay men suffer from the lingering effects of being socialized in their youth to hate themselves. This is accomplished subtly in some men and more obviously in others.

    In the film, Ennis' father exposes his son to the gruesome corpse of a suspected homosexual who had been tortured, mutilated and killed.

    The brutal scene is imprinted in the boy's mind and the father's harsh lesson sticks.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    `So the little boy with the big secret becomes the man who is driven to avoid shame by hiding his dark truth.'

    Alan Downs, psychologist and author

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    In his Santa Fe office and in his writing, Downs helps gay men come to grips with their rage. "I see Ennis and Jack every day," he says, men who "are fearful of their own homoerotic fantasies," men who feel it is more socially acceptable to show rage than it is to show shame.

    His patients range from a 70-year-old married man who has never come out to his wife, to a young man who fears he will become a ridiculous jester like the character Jack on Will & Grace.

    "The wound is the trauma caused by exposure to overwhelming shame at an age when you weren't equipped to cope with it. An emotional wound caused by toxic shame is a very serious and persistent disability that has the potential to literally destroy your life. It is much more than just a poor self-image. It is the internalized and deeply held belief that you are somehow unacceptable, unlovable, shameful, and in short, flawed," he writes.

    "So the little boy with the big secret becomes the man who is driven to avoid shame by hiding his dark truth ... His secret he cannot reveal, not even to himself, for fear that it will consume him completely. Deep inside, far from the light of awareness, the secret lives.

    "It was this early abuse suffered at the hands of our peers, coupled with the fear of rejection by our parents, that ingrained in us one very strident lesson: There was something about us that was disgusting, aberrant, and essentially unlovable."

    While it is far easier to come out today than it was 40 years ago, Downs stands by his theory and is not particularly optimistic things will change soon. While The Velvet Rage has captured attention, it has detractors.

    Dr. Brian Cornelson, a gay physician who treats HIV-positive patients at St. Michael's Hospital in Toronto, isn't convinced the rage that paralyzes Ledger's character in the film is as endemic as Downs suggests.

    He insists the tortured relationship between Ennis and Jack should only be considered in the context of its time and geography. Cornelson believes a more enlightened world is allowing gay men to mitigate any shame that may have been visited upon them in their early years.

    And though statistics reveal the tenure of gay relationships is shorter than their straight counterparts, he predicts that will change. "There is a lot of glue keeping heterosexual relationships intact, church, family and society," he says. "There is actually pressure on straight people to get and stay together."

    While historically there has been no similar adhesive for gay relationships, that, too, is changing, says Cornelson.

    Back in the '60s there was nothing affirming about being gay on television or in the movies or in advertising. Cornelson suspects gay kids today get a more balanced message. The legalization of gay marriage in Canada provides gay children and teens with a positive vision of their future.

    As well, the spectre of HIV and AIDS may have spurred more gay men into considering the benefits of long-term committed relationships, says Cornelson.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    U of T's Dr. David Rayside says childhood shame doesn't necessarily lead to rage in adulthood. Besides, some anger is appropriate
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Dr. David Rayside, director of the Centre for Sexual Diversity Studies at the University of Toronto, agrees with Cornelson. He doesn't believe it is a given that shame felt in childhood will lead to rage in adulthood, no matter how deeply sublimated or internalized.

    Rather, he believes it's just as possible that gay men will turn that damage into something creative and loving.

    Rayside counters that some anger in all people is appropriate. Gays who rail against organized religion, for example, "that may be an understandable and a transparently reasonable response."

    Consider the energy that fuelled gay political movements in the '80s and '90s, such as Act-Up, Queer Nation and AIDS Action Now.

    What's more, he suggests, just about everybody can tap in to their unresolved psychological issues about parenting and find some reason to be pissed off.

    Downs defends his theory.

    The rage, at various temperatures, is undeniable, Downs confirms. For example, on a recent Oprah show, he confirmed that in many cases gay children purposefully come out to their parents. Sadly, though, that confidence is rarely taken seriously.

    According to Downs, the psychological wounds are not always visible and often only reveal themselves over the course of an intense relationship. "The situation compounds when two men, both overwhelmed with shame, come together in an intense and explosive expression of passion," he writes.

    Even though the young man from Ottawa, who came out at 19, does not recall an anguished, shameful childhood (his 51-year-old mother gave him a copy of The Velvet Rage for Christmas), he recognizes the sad lovers in Brokeback Mountain and relates keenly to many of the case studies in The Velvet Rage.

    "In life, I really try to understand what motivates people. The book and the movie explained a lot," Smith says.

    "I loved the movie. It hit very close to home," says the articulate and gregarious student.

    "I've had relationships with men who are cold and have trouble expressing themselves. I see so many people I know in Ennis and Jack. The movie made me sad but it was a great release. It wasn't as hard to watch the second time."
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Tati's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Your Pocket
    Posts
    15,886

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    Ooh, I read this article this morning. It is interesting, and sad. Grimm, do you think there is anyone to whom these theories never apply? Is it ever easy?
    If you reveal your secrets to the wind you should not blame the wind for revealing them to the trees.

    - Kahlil Gibran

  3. #3
    Elite Member muchlove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    6,241

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    I don't have much to say abut the article, but it was interesting.

    And I want "The Velvet Rage" to be my superhero name.

  4. #4
    Hit By Ban Bus! UndercoverGator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Now with ADD added goodness!
    Posts
    6,601

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    So sad. I wonder how many gay men actually make it out of the self loathing? I hope so.

  5. #5
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,382

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    The ones that don't are the suicide cases, and the ones who self destruct not only themselves but sham marriages to unfortunate women.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  6. #6
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    in the wild blue yonder
    Posts
    15,479

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    The writer of this piece is an old friend of mine. He really nailed it.

  7. #7
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,382

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    Please send along my compliments, he nailed it exactly.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  8. #8
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Central Duh-hio
    Posts
    22,629

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    This whole thread has been very disturbing for me. Being in my forties and coming out in 1979 alot of that stuff does ring true. I can say though that I have seen a WORLD of change in the last 25 years. It has got to be so much better for guys/gays now. There is nothing quite like being a very young kid and knowing you are gay and hearing something from a close relative like, "the only time it would be right to put people in extermination camps and gas them would be with the queers" who do you turn to at a time like that? certainly not your family. You are alone..or at least years ago that is how it was. Hopefully things are to the point where no one would be so stupid as to say something like that in front of a child..shit they hear and see everything ..like sponges...they pick it ALL up the good and the bad. I know of what happened to people I knew in school who were gay and came out and very few had a really happy ending. And at that time there was very little in society to turn to for support...especially for teens. I am sure things are improving all the time but face it, at least in the US there are plenty of places that ARE STILL LIKE 1960'S WYOMING. And Grimm unfortunately not everybody has the apparent strength and tenacity as you, and the luck of at least living in the time and place that you are. You might want to consider those 'suicides" in the same light as "lost brothers". having had the person I have liked the most since my partner died in 2001 jump off of a nine story parking garage in dowtown Columbus last June makes me particularly sensitive to this. Why we can't be there for one another(as gay men and women) more than we are just simply escapes me and saddens me. *and yeah, I have had a few drinks as otherwise I probably would not have bothered as I am emotionally stunted and self loathing...well maybe not stunted but definitely self loathing right now*

  9. #9
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    in the wild blue yonder
    Posts
    15,479

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    Oh, I'm so sorry your friend committed suicide. That is just so awful and sad.

    Don't despair, although I know you have every reason to -- there ARE good people and things are slowly changing for the better.

    I am shocked that someone (other than Hitler) would actually say out loud, in the presence of a child no less, that gays should be exterminated. I grew up in redneck Alberta and even there I never heard anything as evil as that. Hang in, Soljiita.

  10. #10
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Central Duh-hio
    Posts
    22,629

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    Well I am seeing the doc tomorrow to see what to do(sad and sick again)lol..and yes I heard that not only in my own home(not one of my parents thank God) but in one of my schools as well. And it was a female both times...for some reason that made it more stunning to me...not sure why. It amazes me how people will say things out loud when they don't realize that the object of their scorn and hatred is sitting right in front of them..they just don't realize it. It does not happen so much anymore...I guess that is a sign of progress(or my growing isolation)..lol. Growing up in the 70's in ho-hum middle suburban America I heard anti- gay things ALOT..and from all corners..damn even teachers when I was in high school would say shit. Oh How I would love to go back in time and rip every one of them up one side and down the other. hehehehehe*that was a nice visual "...

  11. #11
    A*O
    A*O is offline
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! A*O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sitting in judgement of YOU
    Posts
    24,279

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    As a straight woman of course I cannot possibly understand the extent of prejudice that the gay community has had to endure over the years but I DO believe that things are slowly, slowly changing for the better. The mere fact that so many gays feel able to come out and live their lives without the shame and secrecy must surely be an improvement on how things were even a few years ago? Of course, if you grow up in an environment where you know that your sexuality will never be accepted by your family and friends then it must be torture. It's all very PC to say 'well that's the family's problem'. Actually it's YOUR problem and I can absolutely understand why some gays feel so isolated and unhappy that suicide seems the only way out. However, I do see some glimmers of hope. My kids are growing up fast (15 & 12) and we have some dear gay friends who have been a couple for years (God, that sounds like a cliche but it's true) and my kids worked out a long time ago what the deal was and they have never even queried the fact that Colin and Mike are anything other than an ordinary couple. If kids are unsure about something they WILL ask, and mine don't seem at all curious, let alone concerned and I think a lot of other kids their age think and feel the same way these days. Thank God.
    Why do people say "Grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really wanna get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding! -Betty White

  12. #12
    Elite Member panda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hotlanta, GA
    Posts
    1,938

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    I lost a gay friend to suicide, too.

  13. #13
    Elite Member olivia720's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Wisconsin, United States
    Posts
    10,596

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    I must be one of the one in ten this movie "resonated" with, even though I am a hetero female.
    Thanks for posting this grimm. I am very sympathetic to this and am glad to see it being brought in the mainstream more. I think things are slowly getting better, but its still very, very hard and unacceptable to a lot of people. Its not enough.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator NoDayButToday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    13,559

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    ^ You couldn't have said what I was feeling better.

    I can't possibly know how bad it is for someone truly living this because I haven't, but I have friends who have. That is probably why the movie resonated with me so much, I think of those I love and know how hard it is for them, and know how much harder it could have been. I'm also glad that the movie was good, it's easier to accept on the mainstream level than something campy or of B-movie quality which is the way most (I said most, there are some really good independent ones out there!) LGBT films have been up til this point.

  15. #15
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,382

    Default Re: Meaning of 'Brokeback Mountain' to present-day gays, psychological analysis

    You might want to consider those 'suicides" in the same light as "lost brothers". having had the person I have liked the most since my partner died in 2001 jump off of a nine story parking garage in dowtown Columbus last June makes me particularly sensitive to this.
    I wasn't passing judgement on them, merely stating facts about such cases. The ones that don't make it, be it from environment or personal inability are the ones you read about in the papers.

    I'm not sure what's worse.. having someone committ suicide that way, or be filled with such self loathing and destructive behavior as to catch HIV through LOTS of unprotected sex because that person didn't value themselves and , perversely, wanted to feel alive because nothing else seemed to jolt them out of their misery.

    I need to call that friend.. see how he's doing

    *sigh*
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Michelle Williams (from Brokeback Mountain)
    By raebmv24 in forum Plastic Surgery
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: May 4th, 2007, 06:48 PM
  2. Brokeback Mountain
    By SmellsLikeRoses in forum Television and Movies
    Replies: 139
    Last Post: March 20th, 2007, 07:30 AM
  3. When Football Hunks Goes Brokeback Mountain...
    By EDISON27 in forum Laughs and Oddities
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 8th, 2006, 03:47 AM
  4. Bahamas bans Brokeback Mountain
    By Grimmlok in forum Television and Movies
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: April 5th, 2006, 11:29 PM
  5. Brokeback Mountain premiere 12.6
    By mia981 in forum Photo Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: December 6th, 2005, 09:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •