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Thread: Women's gymnastics - spoilers

  1. #31
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    BEIJING (AP) Nastia Liukin's loss of an Olympic gold medal couldn't have come in a closer or more convoluted manner.

    The Beijing Games all-around champion from the United States received the same 16.725 score as China's He Kexin on uneven bars Monday. A tiebreaker was used because dual medals are no longer awarded in gymnastics.

    And that tiebreaker was so complex that long after the medals were handed out, International Gymnastics Federation officials still were explaining it.

    Suffice it to say that because of the deductions from a perfect 10 for each gymnast in their execution scores, He had gold and Liukin had her second silver and fourth overall medal of these games.

    "For me, it's not correct," said FIG president Bruno Grandi, who noted the rules for dual medals were dropped in 1997 at the direction of the IOC. "When two people arrive on the same level, they are champions. But this competition doesn't belong to us. It is the IOC's.
    "I believe it's correct to have two gold medals, but this is my modest opinion. The IOC is different."

    Liukin would not criticize the scoring system.

    "It's nothing I can control, and honestly, I can say it has been very fair to me, and I got the biggest gold medal of them all," said Liukin, winner of the gold in women's all-around gymnastics.

    She doesn't have the latest one, but her four medals tie her father Valeri's haul when he competed for the Soviet Union. Coincidentally, one of Valeri Liukin's golds, on high bar in 1988, came in a tie with teammate Vladimir Artemov.

    --------

    For some reason they refused to give credit for some of the moves Johnson had in her floor routine. They didn't give her credit for one of her jump split and thats just one that I could pick out. No wonder Bela is ticked.

    I wonder what the chinese had done if the vote had swung the American way between Lukin and He on bars... it's starting to become a downer.

    The judging is still bad and there is no excuse for it.. the point system was THEIR point system and they had 4 years to figure out the bugs.

  2. #32
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    RAT BASTARD CHEATERS!!!! Even if it wasn't cheating in this particular intstance...RAT BASTARD CHEATERS!!! You can quote me on that, too.
    I'm not quite drunk enough to really care, but is this her violation of her violation of her violation of her violation of probation or her violation of her violation of her violation of her probation????? ~MontanaMama on LL's latest arrest.

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    Elite Member Laxmobster's Avatar
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    ^Hahahaha, that's funny because no matter what event is playing as soon as I see a Chinese competitor I scream CHEATERS. It became a game with my friends and I!

    I watched an interview with Alicia Sacramone and she was just so gracious and honest about her losing the gold for the US. The fact that she went back out and competed in the individual events speaks a lot of her character. I feel bad how much focus they're putting on the poor girl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial View Post
    I also choose to believe the rumors because I am, when it is all said and done, a dirty gossip.

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    No disgrace here-they did their very best and were just great!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laxmobster View Post
    ^Hahahaha, that's funny because no matter what event is playing as soon as I see a Chinese competitor I scream CHEATERS. It became a game with my friends and I!

    I watched an interview with Alicia Sacramone and she was just so gracious and honest about her losing the gold for the US. The fact that she went back out and competed in the individual events speaks a lot of her character. I feel bad how much focus they're putting on the poor girl.
    Every time they win a medal by cheating you have to drink!!

    Our girls are doing a fantastic job, so very proud of them!!
    I'm not quite drunk enough to really care, but is this her violation of her violation of her violation of her violation of probation or her violation of her violation of her violation of her probation????? ~MontanaMama on LL's latest arrest.

  6. #36
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    I am sure this has already been discussed, but Alicia did not lose the USA the gold. Even without her (huge) errors, we still wouldn't have won the gold.

    The Chinese are cheaters and it is total and utter BS that the IOC isn't investigating.

    Also, many Chinese athletes that show potential are taken from their parents, some as young as age 3, and train 24/7. They get to see their parents once a year. Personally, I am very glad to have won the silver, how can we compete with that?

    And I LOVE Bela, he tells it like it is. Go Bela!!

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    Elite Member msdeb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laxmobster View Post
    ^Hahahaha, that's funny because no matter what event is playing as soon as I see a Chinese competitor I scream CHEATERS. It became a game with my friends and I!

    I watched an interview with Alicia Sacramone and she was just so gracious and honest about her losing the gold for the US. The fact that she went back out and competed in the individual events speaks a lot of her character. I feel bad how much focus they're putting on the poor girl.
    was that the interview with Chris Collinsworth? he's such a boob. she was being so gracious and he referred to losing the Super Bowl as the same thing she was going thru. he's a boob
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD View Post
    And I LOVE Bela, he tells it like it is. Go Bela!!
    He's right, but he's also an abusive ass. The sooner the Karyoli reign of terror ends in US gymnastics, the better. It's not like either one of them coached any of these girls anyway, but Marta is only too happy to take the credit. I think the only person who has had the guts to open up about them is Dominique Moceanu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tee-ha-ha View Post
    He's right, but he's also an abusive ass. The sooner the Karyoli reign of terror ends in US gymnastics, the better. It's not like either one of them coached any of these girls anyway, but Marta is only too happy to take the credit. I think the only person who has had the guts to open up about them is Dominique Moceanu.
    Can you post a link to that story..
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tee-ha-ha View Post
    He's right, but he's also an abusive ass. The sooner the Karyoli reign of terror ends in US gymnastics, the better. It's not like either one of them coached any of these girls anyway, but Marta is only too happy to take the credit. I think the only person who has had the guts to open up about them is Dominique Moceanu.

    I could buy that, but I would think most prolific coaches are to some degree, not that that is OK. I do like them though and I do think they care.

    And while I love Dominique, and her era (Dawes/Shrug/Miller), she seemed to spew a lot of hatred, including to her parents. Or father, I guess.

  11. #41
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    LAtimes.com
    Dominique Moceanu accuses Martha and Bela Karolyi of abuse
    Former Olympian says Martha Karolyi, now U.S. team coordinator, once slammed her face into a phone and Bela berated her about her weight.

    Former U.S. Olympian Dominique Moceanu, who at 14 was part of the 1996 gold-medal team, said Tuesday night that USA Gymnastics team coordinator Martha Karolyi once grabbed her by the neck and slammed her face into a phone, and that former coach Bela Karolyi twice berated her about her weight in front of national teammates.

    Moceanu, in a telephone interview with The Times, expanded on comments she made on an "HBO Real Sports" report that first aired Tuesday night in which she called for the Karolyis to be removed from their positions with the national team.

    But other gymnasts who have been coached by the Karolyis or who were on the 1996 team with Moceanu said they hadn't seen the abuse Moceanu said she suffered."I never, ever objected to hard work," Moceanu said.

    "What I objected to was Martha grabbing me by the neck, shoving my face into the phone and telling me to call my parents when I hurt my neck in practice. I objected to being told to jump onto a scale in front of the 1995 world championship team, of being forced to do 16 uneven bars routines in a row by Martha.

    "I was completely embarrassed by Bela in front of the 2000 national training team at camp. He completely belittled me and my weight, singled me out and made me feel very small. It was unfair treatment. Martha's logic is so false but no one would listen to a 14-year-old. I was never allowed to speak out."

    She failed to make the team and tried a comeback in 2006, but injuries got in the way.

    Martha Karolyi, speaking on a conference call Tuesday morning, said, "I feel sad that a gymnast so accomplished as Dominique, being a part of the 1996 Olympic team and being the individual medalist in the 1995 world championships, can remember the harder days during the preparation. I feel sad."

    USA Gymnastics President Steve Penny said, "I have not seen the [HBO] piece yet, so I am not in a position to comment. However, I do want to say that the Karolyis have contributed a great deal to the success of our athletes over the years and continue to do so."

    Later Tuesday, USA Gymnastics spokesman Leslie King said the Karolyis and Penny were unavailable for comment about Moceanu's other accusations.

    Moceanu said she spoke out now only because she was approached by HBO and said she hasn't spoken to the Karolyis since 2006.

    "I have a nonexistent relationship with the Karolyis," Moceanu said in the phone interview. "I'm more mature now and able to articulate my feelings."

    Kim Zmeskal Burdette, who was coached by Bela Karolyi when she won the 1991 all-around world championship and was a member of the 1992 Olympic team, said she was surprised by Moceanu's comments.

    "I don't know where she's coming from," Zmeskal Burdette said. "From my personal experience, she's coming from a different planet. It's a difficult process and there are a lot of pieces to becoming the very best in the world.
    "It's not a walk in the park. Bela was always very clear that if you want these results you put in this kind of work."

    Zmeskal Burdette is a coach now and her 15-year-old student, Chelsea Davis, was one of 12 gymnasts who made it to the final Olympic team selection camp at the Karolyis' Houston-area ranch. Davis did not make the final cut, however.

    The six-woman team was picked Saturday night after a nearly two-month process that included two rounds of national championships June 6-8 in Boston; two rounds of Olympic trials competition June 19-22 in Philadelphia, where all-around winner Shawn Johnson and runner-up Nastia Liukin earned automatic bids; and a final four-day camp at the ranch that ended Saturday.

    On the HBO report, Moceanu said: "I think there's a better way to do it. Bottom line, I've had several coaches after the Karolyis. And I know it can be done in a healthier way physically and emotionally."

    Moceanu, 26, who gained fame as part of that 1996 team nicknamed "The Magnificent Seven," is married to former Ohio State gymnast Michael Canales and is the mother of a 6-month-old daughter. On HBO, she said her sacrifices of living a spartan life, always watching her diet and enduring several injuries including a stress fracture during the 1996 Olympic year were not necessary.

    She said the Karolyis showed "very little compassion" when she was injured and told a story of having an aunt smuggle her candy, mints and gum into the practice gym by hiding them in a teddy bear.
    In response to poor performances by the U.S. team at the 1999 world championships, USA gymnastics began a system about six months before the 2000 Sydney Olympics in which athletes would come to the Karolyi ranch once a month.

    Bela Karolyi was in the forefront of choosing the Sydney team, which won no medals. But since 2001, after Martha Karolyi became the national coordinator, the U.S. has won 13 gold medals at world championships and helped produce the 2004 Olympic all-around gold medalist (Carly Patterson), and the 2007 world championship gold medalist (Johnson) and the world championship gold-medal team.

    Dominique Dawes, who was on the 1996 Olympic team with Moceanu and who was also on the 2000 team, said Moceanu had never talked about her unhappiness.

    "Did I have any negative experiences," Dawes said. "Sure. Was it easy? No. But I always had a choice. No one was putting a gun to my head."

    Dawes was personally coached by Kelli Hill but also participated in the Karolyi ranch experiences in 2000.

    "The thing is, the kids understand the Karolyis," Dawes said. "No. 1, we had a choice. No. 2, we understood the political benefits to being a Karolyi athlete. The Karolyis have clout both at the national and international level."

    Moceanu says she feels USA Gymnastics doesn't need the Karolyis any more.

    "There are so many good coaches in the U.S. that could get the same results," she told The Times. "They are using an old way of overtraining. The results might be commendable, but it's not right."

    *********************

    Of course I have no way of knowing the truth, but only she suffered abuse?

  12. #42
    Elite Member louiswinthorpe111's Avatar
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    ^^I dunno. If no one can back up Dominique's story, then maybe it's sour grapes.

  13. #43
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    Good grief - all this bitching and accusations of cheating, biased judges, etc just like the Pageant Moms
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiswinthorpe111 View Post
    ^^I dunno. If no one can back up Dominique's story, then maybe it's sour grapes.
    I don't think it is. She's not the only gymnast to say that about the Karyolis, she's only the most prominent one. Other ones who went "nowhere" on the national stage have said similar things.

  15. #45
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    It's killing me to fucking wait for NBC to run this and avoid this thread.

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