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Thread: Too many unqualified people going to college

  1. #46
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UndercoverGator View Post
    Yes, it might damage the fragile self esteem of some dumbass but it kept the standards high.
    I'm sure everyone has individual strengths,
    It is WHAT society deems as value.

    I got myself involved in finance because I thought that is where I needed to be.

    What line of work are you in Gator? Do you work in the public sector? Why do you sound so cold and bitter?

  2. #47
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    ^^The society we live in is knowledge based, so anybody who can't read, write or express themselves clearly is at a huge disadvantage. I see students like this all the time at the university level. When an 85 per cent average is necessary to qualify for entrance and the majority of those students literally do not read unless forced to, and cannot write a coherent sentence, then I think what Gator and I and others are suggesting is that they probably should NOT be there, or should be working a lot harder at the very least.

    It seems students get high marks in high school simply for showing up and handing something in, because they are sure not being properly marked on their writing/communication skills. This also applies to math and science, by the way. A new study showed that the average uni student has the math skills of someone in Grade 7. That is pretty poor.

    And yet a lot of these students think they deserve these marks, and get very nasty when they receive a REAL mark. A lot of teachers just give up and dole out As rather than fight with the students, parents and to some extent, school administrations.

    Giving people praise, and high marks for poor achievement creates these kinds of situations. And IMO, we all lose out as a result.

    Not everybody has a right to go to uni. If you don't have the aptitude for it, choose a career that requires less academic standing. But whatever career anybody goes into requires some level of communication and writing ability, and I'm just not seeing it out there, 85 per cent uni minimum notwithstanding. I think an 85 is really worth about a 65 these days.

  3. #48
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    Why are some races more likely to excell in math and science? It seems more culturally-related. The Asian race, for example. This culture is also much more integrated and focused, as a whole.

    Someone can only try so hard!

    When I studied accounting and finace, I'd literally start feeling like I was having a heart attack. Looking at interest rates and markets made me completely overwhelmed. It required way too much attention to detail.

    I stopped school. And still as a senior, I haven't returned. Now, I am falling into that catorgory that is such a growing population in the US of students not graduating.
    Last edited by JamieElizabeth; February 5th, 2007 at 03:21 PM.

  4. #49
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    Are you basing that on stereotypes or actual fact?

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    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    I'm not touching the race/education issue with a ten-foot pole as I think that is utterly untrue. Study habits and the importance placed on education/reading in a family/culture tend to encourage better marks than whatever race you happen to be born into.

    I'm surprised that you felt a need to be in finance given what you've just written.

  6. #51
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    JamieE - I think you will find that Lobelia/Gator are being what we call 'ironic' when referring to the damaged self-esteeem of students who really have no business being at uni in the first place. You refer here and elsewhere (somewhat bitterly it has to be said) to the fact that you found yourself so overwhelmed by your business studies that you dropped out even though you were 'expected' to follow that particular path? Was that parental pressure, pressure from your school or did you just not realise what it entailed? There's no shame in finding that your choice of studies doesn't suit you. It happens all the time and it's much better to acknowledge you made the wrong choice and struggle on for 3 years towards a mediocre degree and a job you'll hate than cut your losses and start again with something less demanding or more suited to your abilities and/or temperament.

    Slightly OT - I was really pissed off yesterday when my son (13) came home and talked about a careers discussion he'd had at school when he told his teacher that (at the moment) he's interested in becoming a plumber. Don't laugh - it's a noble trade and there's a dire shortage of them in Australia. My son is bright enough but not an academic high-flyer and never will be (nor do I expect him to be). Anyway, the teacher was appalled and said "why would your parents pay for an expensive private education so you'll end up only as a plumber?".

    Well for a start, asshole, plumbers have guaranteed jobs and can earn upwards of $200,000 per year - what's a teacher's salary these days? And next time your toilet gets blocked, who ya gonna call, hmmmmm??
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    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Tradespeople here in BC are making money hand over fist. One of my students is married to an electrician who was offered a job with lots of overtime before he even finished his apprenticeship. They agreed to pay for his schooling if he would work on weekends for them. At 21, he's earning more than six figures. And even if he wasn't, there is no shame at all in honest labour.

    I agree that not everybody is cut out for uni and it doesn't necessarily have a lot to do with intelligence. My niece is plenty smart (at least intellectually if not emotionally) but she knows that going to uni would be a waste of her time and abilities. She may change her mind later, but for now, she's content to work and take night courses that will help her get ahead right now.

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    It worries me that for most high school students it is automatically assumed that they will go do university. Why?? Unless you are studying for a very specific career (law, medicine, accounting, etc) then spending 3 years doing 'media studies' or 'general humanities' and still being unemployable because you have absolutely nothing to offer potential employers is a waste of everyone's time.

    In the UK there used to be universities which where centres of academic excellence whose degrees actually meant something and you could safely assume graduates were literate, numerate, competent in their chosen field. We then had so-called polytechnic colleges which still offered degrees or diplomas but often in less 'academic' fields and/or more trade-based qualifications like engineering, IT, etc. The (labour) Govt then decided that it was 'elitist' to have a two-tier higher education so all the former Polys were allowed to call themselves 'Universities' so we ended up with ridiculous names like "The University Of The West Of England" (formerly Bristol Poly) or "Thames Valley University" (formerly Slough Technical College). Entrance requirements and standards weren't adjusted - in fact almost anyone can walk in and enrol - and so the dumbing down process continues apace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    It worries me that for most high school students it is automatically assumed that they will go do university. Why?? Unless you are studying for a very specific career (law, medicine, accounting, etc) then spending 3 years doing 'media studies' or 'general humanities' and still being unemployable because you have absolutely nothing to offer potential employers is a waste of everyone's time.
    That's the problem! Apparently going to a trade school is a huge disgrace .

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    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    I teach at the biggest polytechnical school in western Canada and it is full of people with university degrees training to do something more specific. I don't think it is as much of a disgrace as it used to be, at least I hope not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Slightly OT - I was really pissed off yesterday when my son (13) came home and talked about a careers discussion he'd had at school when he told his teacher that (at the moment) he's interested in becoming a plumber. Don't laugh - it's a noble trade and there's a dire shortage of them in Australia. My son is bright enough but not an academic high-flyer and never will be (nor do I expect him to be). Anyway, the teacher was appalled and said "why would your parents pay for an expensive private education so you'll end up only as a plumber?".

    Well for a start, asshole, plumbers have guaranteed jobs and can earn upwards of $200,000 per year - what's a teacher's salary these days? And next time your toilet gets blocked, who ya gonna call, hmmmmm??
    I've never understood why anyone would think a plumber is a lesser-than occupation. Anybody that looks down upon plumbers is a jackass. Period. They clearly have NO clue and would probably SUCK if challenged to do a plumber's job. I hate these kind of dumbass, elitist mofos that stigmatize manual labor. Fuck you. Not to mention, the plumber probably makes way more than the teacher.

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    Absolutely. Unless you plan to have a full-time academic career (surely a tiny minority of uni students) then the whole point of higher education is to equip yourself for the workplace. Where you get your qualification is less important than giving yourself the necessary knowledge, training and skill to perform a job competently. That's what employers are looking for and I think they are getting 'fussier' because of the hoards of virtually unemployable 'graduates' who apply for jobs with largely meaningless qualifications. You really may as well present your "I Took Part" certificate with your resume LOL.

    Rather than create more and more 'universities' churning out students with "I Tried Hard" certificates, and ignoring the dire need to more technical or trades skills, they should go back to what they are good at - producing engineers, mechanics, welders, electricians and yes, plumbers. SVZ is right - there is a huge amount of snobbery about 'tradespeople' but as I say, when your toilet blocks or your fusebox blows you're going to need a qualified tradie to come and fix it, not a clueless 22yr old with a vague degree.

    I know every parent wants their kid to become a doctor or even a lawyer (although Lord knows there's enough of those) but it's more so the parents can bask in the reflected glory of being able to boast that their kid has 'made it'. I'd be far happier knowing my kid has a trade or skill that will guarantee him a good income for life so he's not still living with me aged 30 with no job but a lovely Media Studies certificate.
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    I'd rather live in a world full of tradespeople than Muffies and Biffs.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    I think we are overlooking the fact that education in and of itself is important, though. I get very leery when I hear people saying that schools should exist ONLY to churn out people for specific professions. In that case, what happens to having a broad knowledge base from which to make informed judgements etc?

    I'm not saying everybody should go to uni, far from it, but to say that uni's should exist only to serve the corporate world is a slippery slope that far too many uni's are already tumbling down. Big business should not be dictating the agenda of education, yet it is happening at an alarming rate. I could go on and on with examples etc., but I think you get my drift.

    That clueless media grad may not get a job right away, and might have to go back to school to learn something like new media hard skills (and I see a lot of that), but they are still better off and MORE employable with a degree and a certificate, especially if they deserved to be in uni in the first place.

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    I feel ya, PB. I'm all for education! College is only a waste of time for those who have no desire to be there.

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