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Originally Posted by Dracko
Ok Facts People: The GST replaced the manufacturers sales tax which was a hidden tax that no one clearly had an idea of how much it was. The gst is a great tax that generates millions for social programs in Canada. The liberals said they would get rid of this tax. What happened? They realized it was a great tax and a cash cow for social programs. Hidden tax rather than upfront tax...no thanks. I'd rather see the bus before it hits me.
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Seeing it there or not actually makes no difference, considering the amount you pay is the same. Secondly, the Libs didn't actually get a look at the financial books of the counry until after they had assumed power, and saw how badly Mulroney ( a neocon) had fucked the country up... same thing happened in Ontario with Harris. Call it a necessary evil, but if Mulroney hadn't dumped Canada sdo far in dept (with his identical, and unworkable economic policies his neocon colleagues were using on their own nations to ill effect) we wouldn't have needed the GST by now.
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Pacific Breeze: Brian Mulroney is no longer in parliament, and you say those that were involved in the liberal Ad Scam are all gone. Martin seems to be still around doesn't he.
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I guess you don't reads the news.. chief justice gomery spent 2 years sifting through all the information, as did the RCMP, and found Martin and everybody in his caucus (most of whom were NOT involved in the Chretien gov) to be absolved of any wrongdoing. Yet here you are, parroting what Harper says even though it's completely false. Way to think for yourself. Let's see, the FBI of Canada, combined with a fucking CHIEF JUSTICE isn't enough for you? Do you need Jesus himself to come down and pat Martin on the back?
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Environment: Then lets see Kyoto.. If this program is so efficient why is Martins gov't so inept at reducing green house gases? When the Americans, that you hate so much, didn't sign onto Kyoto and have done a much better job than the Canadians the Liberals couldn't live up to the Kyoto agreement they signed even if we shut off the electricity in Canada for the next 12 years...and that's a FACT.
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That's not a fact, thats rhetoric. Fact is when you pony up evidence that confirms your OPINION. The libs have been slow going on this front, but were probably overly-optimistic to begin with. As we speak, the 7 coal fired electricity generating plants are in the process of being shut down in ontario.. that's about an overall 25% reduction in said gasses FOR THE WHOLE COUNTRY. Here's an idea: go consult some independent environmental assessments instead of being a squaking bird for Harper's oversimplified and dumbed down election spew.
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Health Care: Our Health Care system in Canada is broken and that is also a fact. After 11 years of Liberal health care reform we are worse off than we were 11 years ago.
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Actually no, we're beginning to recover from Mulroney (again) and the reforms (after about a decade of study) have started to be implemented. Where do you get your information? It's not even information, it's just unfounded opinion. Do you even watch the news?
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So now you're afraid of the US health care system. Why? Because Paul Martin has scared you into thinking this way.
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As I patiently tried to explain to you last night, i'll do so again because you seem slow:
2 tier health care (whichis Harper's solution) would basically enable the top 2-5% of the nation, wealth-wise, to receive the care they need at prohibitive costs the rest of the nation couldn't afford unless they bankrupted themselves. The reason we have such a doctor shortage in Canada right now is brain drain to the US, because private 2nd tier health care pays SUBSTANTIALLY MORE than public health care. Doctors go where the cash is. Thus, if 2 tier were instituted in force in Canada, the brain drain would reverse itself and the docs would stay in canada.. but again, docs go where the money is. They would flood the private medical industry, leaving YET STILL A SHORTAGE for the public system. So the rich would get healthy, and the public system itself would remain untouched, and un-overhauled.. leaving 98% of the country fucked.
1+1 = 2. Its not fucking rocket science.
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The American system is also broken why would Conservatives sign onto that system?
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Because Harper is in bed with Republicans and big business, and private health care is run by corporations.. for fucks sake, why do you think the HMO's in the states are able to charge usurious rates to their poor claimants, all the whole receiving big fat tax breaks from BushCo? BECAUSE THEYRE IN BED. Harper is cut from the samd damn cloth and has made enough statements to that effect which YOU would know about if you bothered to educate yourself.
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Roy Romanow toured 17 countries with combined two tier health care that works. That is the system Canada needs.
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oh helll no, that is NOT what the Romanow report concludes by a long shot! That's a blatant LIE.
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Finally, Canada Conservative social policy is actually left of US democrat policy. Don't be afraid in our world, you will be able to get medical care that works in a timely fashion. Not die while waiting in line...the Liberal solution.
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Yeah, you'll get it if you can fork over 20 grand to start with.. other than that, deal with the brain drained public system that never got overhauled and never saw the doctor shortage addressed. SOME FUCKING SOLUTION. you still die, or you end up with nothing. Sounds pretty American to me.
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Corruption: The only corruption has already taken place at the hands of the Liberalos.
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ROFLMAO, omg! You don't even know what you're talking about. Harris, Mulroney, Thatcher, Bush 1 and 2, every fucking neocon government has been so insanely corrupt as to make this piffling Liberal scandal (which did NOT involve any of the players in this current government, as the RCMP and a chief justice determined) out to be childs play. You're embarrassing yourself! Go fucking read up on the subject instead of serving this facile and trite Harper election speech to us, expecting us to buy it.
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It won't come to an end until people are in jail paying for these crimes. Don't forget about Ralph Goodale. The investigation of him is ongoing. It seems to never end with the Liberal corruption.
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That has to be the most ridiculous statement yet. 1 small scandal, and that's 'neverending' to you? Hilarious.
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What liberals are afraid of is having the conservatives win because then and only then will the real facts about Ad Scam come out. We need federalism in Canada we don't need Quebec leaving Canada and we don't need the west leaving canada. Another Liberal gov't will divide canada beyond recognition.
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Again, more retarded and unresearched Harper dribble points. Honey, until you've actually read what this man is about, you can't actually comment on him. He actually favors Albertan seperation, he favors MUCH more power going to the provinces and a reduction in federalism... for fucks sake, GO FUCKING READ because right now you look like a complete idiot thanks to being so lazy that you can't even bother to google.
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Grimmlok: Finally, don't tell me I'm in the geographic centre of Canada, which is actually in Ontario. The reason you guys don't bring up "east vs west" Grimmlok, is because Torontonians believe they are the "centre of the universe." Why would you bring it up when we don't exist out here?
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1) Nobody in toronto thinks its the center of the universe. Nobody i know, or on tv, or on the radio, has EVER said that in any capacity. You know what that is? Its some fucking inferiority complex that the weat has. The west is ALWAYS the one bringing up this "east vs/ west" stupidity, where people out here don't give a flying fuck. We see it as one country. You're the ones with the hangup and its poisoning your dialogue. It also makes you look stupid, childish and petulant.
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Gay Rights: The majority of canadians are against changing the definition of marraige to include gay marriage.
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Don't even start with me on this. Most canadians were against the abolition of slavery at one point, and even inter-racial marriages were BANNED. Does that make it right? Fuck no. DOn't be ridiculous.
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The compromise is civil unions.
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No, that's saying "yeah, you can ride on the bus but you need to sit in the back away from the rest of us."
That's not being EQUAL. Do you understand the concept of being EQUAL?
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Why is it the minorities always have to impose their will on the majority? We have rights as well.
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Why is it blacks want to have equal rights with whites? Why is it that women want to vote? Why is it jews are allowed to own property? Why are these minorities always trying to impose their will on the majority?
FOR FUCKING EQUALITY. We are exactly as worthy to participate in the same institutions, laws etc that you are. You don't think so? Tough shit. Fuck yourself.
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Ask Paul Martin about whether or not he believes in gay marriage and changing the definition of marriage. He dances around the question and never answers the question.
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The question HAS been answered, and its enshrined in the CHarter of RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS.
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And this is the man you want to protect your rights? He merely passed legislation on the issue because it wouldn't stand up against the Charter of Rights.
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The supreme court actually didn't order him to change it, and was not capable of setting anything in motion that could change the Charter. Martin and his Liberals, along with the bloc, NDP and maybe a couple of SANE neocons were the ones to introduce the legislation into the house. That pretty much bespeaks a committment to upholding its values, where Harper would submit MINORITY RIGHTS to a MAJORITY vote in the house, cloaking bigotry in false democracy.
Listen for the last time: MINORITY RIGHTS ARE *NOT* DECIDED BY A MAJORITY VOTE. IF THAT HAPPENED, NO MINORITY WOULD EVER GET EQUALITY. 1+1= 2, but i dont expect you're able to see that.
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But, he also wouldn't use the not withstanding clause to invoke gay marriage on churches. Me thinks this stinks of hidden agenda...
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We've had gay marriage here for a year, and gay marriage in mos of the provinces for about 3. Has 1 church/synagogue/mosque been 'forced' to marry a gay couple?
NO. in 4 years, the sky has not fallen, religious institutions have not been forced to do anything of the sort. In fact, religious institutions are completely PROTECTED by the legislation tendered and passed for gay marriage. SPECIFICALLY.
Again, go fucking educate yourself. Arguing with you is boring because you're not in posession of any facts!
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And then there is the Gun Registry... Tell me something, Grimmlok. Has your Gun Registry solved the Boxing Day crime yet? Or the 20 or 30 other murders in TO that it hasn't solved? Maybe that 2 billion dollar fiasco could have went to some of your social programs!
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Not that I know of, but that was a Liberal mistake and that was brought in by Chretien.. not the current gov.
Tell ME something: has the neocon attitude of 'guns for everyone' in the states resulted in everybody being 'protected' and 'safe', or do they have one of he highest gun murder rates (if not the highest) in the world? Welcome to Harperville.
Go read.
Re: Real agenda: Canadian conservative makes anti-gay remarks. Shock.
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