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Thread: President Nicolas Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France

  1. #31
    Elite Member ana-mish-ana's Avatar
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    I totally agree about views against the Burqa- I really hate that and even the niqaab everything but the eyes. It does demean women and nothing in the Koran says you must cover the entire face. And its used as a means to control women from insecure and misogynistic bastards. And I am from a Muslim background. My parents never forced me to wear any headscarfs or covering and its a choice if I ever choose to do so but I wont.

    I have an aunt who is forced to wear this and its not out of choice its because her husband is an abusive twat who is insecure and proves his so called manhood and control issues by forcing her to wear that.
    What I find really ironic is that this is suppose to protect and defend the so called honour and modesty of the woman - my arse it does. It attracts full attention and most Muslim countries the moderate ones at that- most women dont wear them and look at those women in horror because its so stark and oppressive. In Morocco they wear the hijab/Jillaba and its really colourful and bright and stylish. And I agree about the security risks- however I dont know if the way Sarkozy is going about it is the best way especially with the banning of the headscarfs in public buildings which I dont necessarily agree with.

  2. #32
    Elite Member Shinola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ana-mish-ana View Post
    I have an aunt who is forced to wear this and its not out of choice its because her husband is an abusive twat who is insecure and proves his so called manhood and control issues by forcing her to wear that.

    What I find really ironic is that this is suppose to protect and defend the so called honour and modesty of the woman - my arse it does. It attracts full attention and most Muslim countries the moderate ones at that- most women dont wear them and look at those women in horror because its so stark and oppressive. In Morocco they wear the hijab/Jillaba and its really colourful and bright and stylish. And I agree about the security risks- however I dont know if the way Sarkozy is going about it is the best way especially with the banning of the headscarfs in public buildings which I dont necessarily agree with.
    I'm sorry to hear about your aunt, ana-mish-ana. I have a family member whose husband treats her poorly, and it's hard to witness.

    The thing I wonder about with Sarkozy's approach is just that if a woman in France is being forced by her husband to wear a burka in public (or if she chooses [!] to wear one, then will the ban on the burka effectively prevent her from going outside her home?
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  3. #33
    Gold Member powerorchid's Avatar
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    I agree with him, he has the right to ban it. Plenty of Muslims world wide do not wear those things. Are they not Muslim?

    It's not a religious thing but a cultural one and if you go live in France you need to abide by that countries laws. Otherwise don't move there!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinola View Post
    I'm sorry to hear about your aunt, ana-mish-ana. I have a family member whose husband treats her poorly, and it's hard to witness.

    The thing I wonder about with Sarkozy's approach is just that if a woman in France is being forced by her husband to wear a burka in public (or if she chooses [!] to wear one, then will the ban on the burka effectively prevent her from going outside her home?
    That is the only thing that worries me about this. What will be the outcome of this ban? These women need to be protected somehow, I have a feeling their spouses won't take too well to this.

  5. #35
    Elite Member ana-mish-ana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerorchid View Post
    I agree with him, he has the right to ban it. Plenty of Muslims world wide do not wear those things. Are they not Muslim?

    It's not a religious thing but a cultural one and if you go live in France you need to abide by that countries laws. Otherwise don't move there!
    I totally agree and that is a problem because I know of people who refuse to assimilate but dont mind the perks living in the West. They are hypocritical as well as hateful. But the thing is I think this is what the extremists want - and to declare that the West hates Islam and there is definitely a war against the religion.
    But what about other religions. For example Sikhs - there needs to be a ban of wearing the Turban because its a religious symbol. If the Burqa is banned then all religions need to be affected because the extremist would use this. Its playing in their hands and these women who are forced to wear them wouldnt be able to go out if they wasnt allowed to wear the Burqa. So it doesnt really help them either way.

    I think there should be more education and imams trained in the West. The problem is that many are supported and paid by regimes like Iran and Saudi Arabia to go into the West to preach their hateful ideaology there is no real opposition to this. Especially if it reaches out to the disaffected youths.

  6. #36
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    But what about other religions. For example Sikhs - there needs to be a ban of wearing the Turban because its a religious symbol.
    I don't think it's fair to compare a turban to a burqa. A turban doesn't demean men and it does not pose a security concern. Why would you compare the two??

  7. #37
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    Committing crimes in a burqa is a great idea. We all need to do that in order to get those hideous things banned.

    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    Many progressive Muslims see the burqa itself as an attack on Islam and are repulsed by it. I'm of mixed feelings here - I think that people should be free to wear whatever they want, regardless of how stupid I feel it is. I'm not sure if I agree with a government telling someone they cannot wear something. On the other hand, I think the burka is a dehumanizing invention made to debase women and I'm absolutely disgusted by it. I'm not however against the hijab in any way if its worn as a personal decision, I'm not sure why they threw that in there about Qatar. I just cannot believe that any woman in the right frame of mind would agree to wear the burka, it just has to be something that is imposed upon them, so I really feel torn about this.
    Exactly. Burqas and hijabs are two completely different things. One is a symbol of oppression and hatred, the other is a cultural/ religious accessory.

    My stance on burqas: They are a slap in the face of every woman. An insult to womanhood, so to say. Banning them is not enough, they need to be burned.
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  8. #38
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    My stance on burqas: They are a slap in the face of every woman. An insult to womanhood, so to say. Banning them is not enough, they need to be burned.
    ITA.

  9. #39
    Elite Member ana-mish-ana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseguy View Post
    I don't think it's fair to compare a turban to a burqa. A turban doesn't demean men and it does not pose a security concern. Why would you compare the two??
    But this is the argument that supporters of the Burqas are going to use. I totally agree with you about demeaning and the suppression of women but banning is going to be used for propaganda purposes. That is why I used the Turban argument. Proponants are going to say that this is an attack of their relgion and if they are being picked on why shouldnt other symbols be banned. You just cant ban one symbol however justified and I agree with those reasons. This was raised in the whole banning of public buildings and other religious symbols such as turbans and crosses are banned as well.

    I just find it interesting that in most Muslim countries the Burqa isnt worn widely yet in the West its more prominant with the exceptions of extremists states like Iran/Saudi or Afghanistan. I think the best way to tackle this is to provide an opposing moral views. Plus money is another factor. Ban those imams and money flooding into Western mosques and I bet you get a different outlook.

  10. #40
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    ^ In Turkey, the fez is outlawed just like the hijab. In public institutions, at least.

    That's how would do it, too. Ban all of it from public buildings, male and female headgear alike. Or any other symbol of religious fundamentalism.
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  11. #41
    Elite Member ana-mish-ana's Avatar
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    But that is already in place in France though and that includes the headscarfs/hijaabs as well as the Burqas and Niqaabs. Sarkozy is talking about an outright ban. The thing about France there is already racial tensions and Sarkozy hasnt got a great rep in that regard especially during the last riots. I wished that the Burqas and the Niqaabs could be all burned but I just think his approach is heavy handed and will lead to more support for it because it would be seen as an attack on Islam/Muslims.

    And in Turkey - fundelmentalism is rising despite the ban, more and more women are wearing them despite the fact its a secular country. I think getting down to the roots of why people are turning to fundelmentalism is a way to combat it
    I dont see outright banning will help these women. Their lives are probably restricted as it is and even more so if the ban was enforced.

    I think funding and educating an opposing views to fundelmentalism is the way to go. The US recently has annointed female Imams which is great!

  12. #42
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    ^^ In France they have problems with young male Muslims raping every girl in the ghetto who doesn't wear a burqa/ hijab. As a punishment. That's how all those banning ideas began.

    I agree wholeheartedly that Sarko is the last person on earth who should initiate this debate. Or rater, re-initiate. He is the opposite of a diplomat and a shit-stirrer. This approach is absolutely certain to cause havoc in the Muslim community in France.

    BUT that doesn't mean that he's wrong.

    In (Western) Turkey, the general population is worried about the new rise of fundamentalism. Deeply worried. Most Turkish people feel very strongly about this subject, as it was so difficult to install Kemalism to begin with. What with the geographic and cultural viccinity to the Arbaic world and all.
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  13. #43
    Elite Member ana-mish-ana's Avatar
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    There is a similar thing in the UK- with young asian gangs raping non muslim girls. Its absolutely appalling this is happening and Political Correctness isnt helping matters either. The BNP made a huge issue out of this and capitilised on it.

    In Morocco the same thing is happening over there- there was recently expulsions of several Shia Imams who were accused of converting Sunni Muslims. But there is also Fundie Imams funded by the Saudis who are doing the same and radicalizing their congregation.

  14. #44
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Just a thought - every bank where I live has notices on the doors stating that you are forbidden to enter wearing a crash helmet, even an open face one. This also applies to a lot of petrol stations and there are many other establishments that say that they will not serve you if you are wearing anything that may obscure your face on their security cameras (such as a baseball cap or wide brimmed hat). And yet it is ok to walk into any of these places dressed in a burkha, which actually conceals far more of the face.

  15. #45
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ana-mish-ana View Post
    There is a similar thing in the UK- with young asian gangs raping non muslim girls. Its absolutely appalling this is happening and Political Correctness isnt helping matters either. The BNP made a huge issue out of this and capitilised on it.
    True, I remember that. Worked out perfectly for the BNP. I am so unracist, I hate radicals of every color equally.
    Hello mother fucker! when you ask a question read also the answer instead of asking another question on an answer who already contain the answer of your next question!
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