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Thread: Israel under fire

  1. #46
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Fuck that bullshit demand for respect.

    Every ethnic or religious group in the world has suffering in it's past. It's not exclusive to jews, or anyone else. History is littered with suffering and injustice.

    I owe all men a degree of respect as fellow human beings, I don't owe more to one group because they have horrible things happen to them.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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  2. #47
    Elite Member NHKMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^
    again, once you've walled in your enemies and forcefully settled in their farmland, poisoning their wells and illegally settling on land that international law says isn't yours, you can't rally play the holocaust victim card anymore.
    FIRST OF ALL - - - - I'm NOT A settlement citizen - so don't you call ME OR MY FAMILY anything of these things. We also have nothing to do with any settlement and never have.

    In my life I have done nothing but good things to palestinian citizens - including saving many of their lives in my army service.

    NEVER POISENED, STOLE OR SETTLED. OK?

  3. #48
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHKMM View Post
    Now that's disrespectful.

    My grandfather's entire family got killed in the holocaust and he suffered jail, racism and has been through hell and hard work to live in Israel - - - not to hear people like you completely dismiss what so many people suffered and died for. Show some respect.

    I'm not dismissing the holocaust and to have you say so is fucking insulting. You need to grow the fuck up. People are still suffering and dying for Israel, show them some respect.

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  4. #49
    Elite Member NHKMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Kill Me View Post
    People are still suffering and dying for Israel, show them some respect.
    [/size]
    What the hell are you talking about?

  5. #50
    czb
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    . . . . this isn't the 1940s anymore and both sides have committed too many atrocities in the past 60 years for either one to play innocent victim.
    as many of you know, i am jewish. however, i rarely weigh in on these discussions because my views on israel are pretty neutral and these threads can be quite heated. the settlement issue is a mess and i don't agree with all that the israeli government has done, actually, some things have upset me. once i said this to my husband who is also jewish, and he told me that israel's existence also helps justify my existence. what he meant to say is that if israel exists, then another holocaust couldn't happen. this may be hard for people to understand unless they lost someone during the holocaust. and a lot of you may not agree with his reasoning, but i believe that a lot of jews do.

  6. #51
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^
    czb, i'm all for the existence of israel. i don't think that should even be up for debate. like i said upthread, i think muslim countries have to get over that and officially recognise its existence as a state. what is up for debate is the borders defining israel, and i think the problem is that israel has taken way more land than it was originally entitled to.
    and i also think that the holocaust and the atrocities suffered by jews during ww2, while absolutely, mind-boggingly horrendous, shouldn't be used by the israeli government as a free pass to violate international law, build illegal settlements and treat palestinians like hostages in their own land.

    nkhm, i know you're against the settlements. you've said it before. but please, it's not all about you, we are discussing israel and my thread was directed at israel - the government - not you.
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  7. #52
    czb
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    ^^^ i know you're not against the existence of israel, i was specifically referring to why NHKMM and others reference the holocaust when they are talking about israel. bringing up the holocaust may get old, but it will continue to happen. it's part of the jewish psyche.

  8. #53
    Elite Member NHKMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^
    nkhm, i know you're against the settlements. you've said it before. but please, it's not all about you, we are discussing israel and my thread was directed at israel - the government - not you.
    That's fine, but it sounded like your post "again, once you've walled in your enemies and forcefully settled in their farmland, poisoning their wells and illegally settling on land that international law says isn't yours, you can't rally play the holocaust victim card anymore." was aimed towards me. Doesn't matter....


    israel's existence also helps justify my existence. what he meant to say is that if israel exists, then another holocaust couldn't happen.
    I agree with that.





    Anyway I'm off to work.

  9. #54
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHKMM View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?
    Sorry, I was having one of my more special moments and forgot that everything is raspberry waterfalls and unicorns over there.

    I can't wrap my mind around the mentality that Israel's existence would prevent another holocaust; does this mean the sole purpose of Israel is to put an end to genocide throughout the world? It's not really working out and last time I checked the holocaust wasn't the only case of mass genocide but I guess it's the only one that matters.

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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by czb View Post
    as many of you know, i am jewish. however, i rarely weigh in on these discussions because my views on israel are pretty neutral and these threads can be quite heated. the settlement issue is a mess and i don't agree with all that the israeli government has done, actually, some things have upset me. once i said this to my husband who is also jewish, and he told me that israel's existence also helps justify my existence. what he meant to say is that if israel exists, then another holocaust couldn't happen. this may be hard for people to understand unless they lost someone during the holocaust. and a lot of you may not agree with his reasoning, but i believe that a lot of jews do.
    yes,could not have said it better
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  11. #56
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    I fall under "other groups". Where is my country?

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  12. #57
    czb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Kill Me View Post
    Sorry, I was having one of my more special moments and forgot that everything is raspberry waterfalls and unicorns over there.

    I can't wrap my mind around the mentality that Israel's existence would prevent another holocaust; does this mean the sole purpose of Israel is to put an end to genocide throughout the world? It's not really working out and last time I checked the holocaust wasn't the only case of mass genocide but I guess it's the only one that matters.

    Posted from my iPhone
    no one said that the holocaust was the only case of mass genocide, but it is very personal for a lot of jews and that's why many reference it when talking about israel. like i said, i don't expect many gentiles to understand. i'm just trying to explain part of the mentality.

  13. #58
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    I understand that mentality czb. My husband was a Jew and I live in an area that is 20% Jewish. I personally believe that mentality is hurting their cause more than helping it.
    You don't engage with crazies. Because they're, you know, fucking crazy. - WitchCurlGirl

  14. #59
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    I understand it's part of the mentality, but that doesn't make it okay. I'm thinking some major therapy would help to get over the PTSD that seems to span generations, eventually Israel is going to have to stop pleading insanity and abuse.


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  15. #60
    czb
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    I understand that mentality czb. My husband was a Jew and I live in an area that is 20% Jewish. I personally believe that mentality is hurting their cause more than helping it.
    yeah, i thought you understood as i know your ex was jewish and i also know the demographics of your area. i'm not saying the mentality is right, i'm just saying that's the way it is. and JKM, a lot of people would find your comment about therapy dismissive and rude. i grew up knowing a lot of holocaust survivors, i can't imagine telling someone who has a permanent tattoo of their prison camp experience to 'just get therapy'. you might get thrown into a combine by a crotchety old person for that one.

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