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Thread: Gun statistic email, true or false?

  1. #16
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    riiiiight...
    and without control, how do you make sure people are using them responsibly?
    also: criminals have guns, so the best response is for everyone else to get a gun too?do you not realise how stupid that sounds? really?
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  2. #17
    Elite Member stef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissfullyunaware View Post
    I'm totally against gun control too. I just don't think its right that the governement is trying to control who has a gun. Meanwhile the criminals all have guns & law abiding citizens are the ones being targeted. As long as they use it responsibly there is no problem.
    are you serious?


    sputnik, i totally agree.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissfullyunaware View Post
    I'm totally against gun control too. I just don't think its right that the governement is trying to control who has a gun. Meanwhile the criminals all have guns & law abiding citizens are the ones being targeted. As long as they use it responsibly there is no problem.

    Guns create criminals. Let's go visit a prison and see how many are there for one passionate fit of anger helped along by knowing where granddad hides the gun.

    BTW, I'm on neither side of this debate. I'm just tired of the outright lying the NRA perpetrates under the guise of "responsible ownership". Most people who kill will a gun consider themselves responsible owners.
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  4. #19
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    it's very tightly regulated, and if a man chooses to keep ammo, the army knows exactly bow much he has,etc.
    also they can choose to leave their weapon at the nearest arsenal.
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    Wow. I guess someone trusts 'the authorities' much more than I do. It's nobody's business how many bullets I own. Don't fuck with me too hard and you'll never have to find out anyway.
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  5. #20
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    Guns create criminals. Let's go visit a prison and see how many are there for one passionate fit of anger helped along by knowing where granddad hides the gun.

    BTW, I'm on neither side of this debate. I'm just tired of the outright lying the NRA perpetrates under the guise of "responsible ownership". Most people who kill will a gun consider themselves responsible owners.
    Sorry for not multi-quoting, but your statements are completely anecdotal. I'm not aware of any reasearch asking killers their opinions on whether they are responsible gun owners or not. I suppose the people who torture and kill without guns don't count. Besides, I imagine most assholes would also tell you they aren't bad people. I don't think these criminal types are the best judge of character whether it is their own or someone else's.
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  6. #21
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    Wow. I guess someone trusts 'the authorities' much more than I do. It's nobody's business how many bullets I own. Don't fuck with me too hard and you'll never have to find out anyway.
    we're taking about their army-issued weapon, not a privately owned one.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    Sorry for not multi-quoting, but your statements are completely anecdotal. I'm not aware of any reasearch asking killers their opinions on whether they are responsible gun owners or not. I suppose the people who torture and kill without guns don't count. Besides, I imagine most assholes would also tell you they aren't bad people. I don't think these criminal types are the best judge of character whether it is their own or someone else's.
    This discussion isn't about people who kill without guns, it's about people who kill with guns - which is the majority of the murder cases in the USA by a very wide margin.

    Having a gun increases the chances that you, yourself, will die by gun. It increases the chances that your children, wife, entire family and social circle will die by gun.

    Again, the vast majority of murders/manslaughter in this country are between people who know each other. Absent the gun, and there are less spontaneous murders committed in the heat of the moment during familial/social arguements.

    It's quite simple.

    Now, I know the country I'm from. I realize that guns are part of the culture and create a society constantly on edge. How do I know? I've also lived in places where guns aren't a character inside almost every crime. That atmosphere is completely different. But that is not my country.

    Guns are here to stay. Like I said before, what rankles me is the NRA bullshit that denies the simple fact that owning all these guns makes us a more violent country.

    BTW, my grandfather owned an arsenal. We're talking a stockpile of weaponry for the coming of Armegeddon (no, he wasn't Xtian.) Us kids weren't allowed any gun toys or even allowed to pretend to shoot someone with our fingers cocked like guns. Guns were not toys. He and my parents were strict in never letting us watch TV shows or movies that made casual use of guns or shooting. I only saw his guns once, when our family was threatened.

    Would you call him a responsible gun owner? Do you think that everyone considers this issues when they own a gun? Do they keep the bullets and ammunition separately? Do they keep them under lock and key? Or are responsible gun owners just as lazy as the rest of us and would consider my grandfather's paranoia too weighty and extreme. It was a heavy burden to carry around.

    We are a violent, careless, society. Own it.
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  8. #23
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Would you call him a responsible gun owner? Do you think that everyone considers this issues when they own a gun? Do they keep the bullets and ammunition separately? Do they keep them under lock and key? Or are responsible gun owners just as lazy as the rest of us and would consider my grandfather's paranoia too weighty and extreme. It was a heavy burden to carry around.

    My gun is always loaded and ready to go. What is the point otherwise? "Excuse me Mr. Intruder, sir, but could you please step back and wait for me to climb up into my closet, unlock my gun safe, and load my weapon? Thanks".

    I don't associate with violent people, period. I don't run with a crowd that gets into drunk fights or tolerates people who do. We all own guns. I really think there is a major difference between your average decent, quiet living person who owns a gun and lower living thug types when it comes to these interpersonal gun killings.
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  9. #24
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    ^ I agree.

    And I certainly disagree with the "Guns create criminals" theory. Criminal behavior is caused by many factors, but the final part of crossing the line comes from inside. You make a decision to cross a line. The gun doesn't make it happen, you do. Personal responsibility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    I really think there is a major difference between your average decent, quiet living person who owns a gun and lower living thug types when it comes to these interpersonal gun killings.
    Then we have to just agree to disagree. I think that a lot of decent people in the US end up killing someone or dead themselves because of the casual presence of guns. It's a lot easier to think that anyone who kills with a gun is a thug, or drunk or "lower living" but that just isn't the case.

    We all have murderous thoughts. Guns make it easier to act on those thoughts
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  11. #26
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Look at countries where there is strong gun control and the level of crime, particularly gun-related. Very, very low compared to the States where violent crime is much, much higher and gun crime, well, forget about it. It's off the charts compared to just say most of Europe.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

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  12. #27
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    One comment about the Soviet Union and guns.

    When Lenin and the Bolsheviks were initially trying to gain control of the country, there were many areas of the country that were in open rebellion. And private ownership of guns was a key to resisting the Bolsheviks in their takeover. Only concerted efforts by the Bolshevik army quelled armed civilian resistance.

    The gun issue was so important to Lenin that he banned private gun ownership and issued an edict stating that any houses found to have guns would result in the homeowner being summarily executed. The issue is documented in "The Black Book of Communism" which relies extensively on the Soviet archives opened about 10 or so years ago.

  13. #28
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    One comment about the Soviet Union and guns.

    When Lenin and the Bolsheviks were initially trying to gain control of the country, there were many areas of the country that were in open rebellion. And private ownership of guns was a key to resisting the Bolsheviks in their takeover. Only concerted efforts by the Bolshevik army quelled armed civilian resistance.

    The gun issue was so important to Lenin that he banned private gun ownership and issued an edict stating that any houses found to have guns would result in the homeowner being summarily executed. The issue is documented in "The Black Book of Communism" which relies extensively on the Soviet archives opened about 10 or so years ago.
    Well, something like that could never happen nowadays because governments are so much more trustworthy than they used to be. Everything the government wants you to do is for your own good obviously, so you should just go ahead and comply since they know best.
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  14. #29
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    you're not going to move to a ranch in montana and start stockpiling weapons, are you?
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  15. #30
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    you're not going to move to a ranch in montana and start stockpiling weapons, are you?
    I will if I feel like it!


    Seriously, though: it does baffle me how so many people don't 'trust the state' to execute people, don't want their library rentals being examined, no wiretapping of phone conversations, etc. yet they seem to implicitly trust the government on other equally huge issues.
    Only the good die young.........................
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