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Thread: Gay Adoption- Your honest thoughts

  1. #61
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    A*O
    It is interesting you say that because one of my friends sister is is pregnant at 23 and everyone is lamenting " Oh her life is ooooover"
    Nah, you can't win.
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  2. #62
    Elite Member Chalet's Avatar
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    I've got two scenarios:

    I know a gay couple who found an ad by a lawyer in a small town paper who said there will be twins up for adoption in 8 months. The pregnant woman had a one night stand, and had 5 kids at home already. The woman had contacted the lawyer.

    The couple was interviewed by the pregnant woman and they adopted the twin - girls. So two gay men are raising two girls. Those girls are the stars of their neighborhood.


    My friend died leaving a 4 1/2 year old daughter. The Dad is the best Dad ever. He's now Mom and Dad. Nuclear family is over. She's got the grandma, the aunt, me, school Moms and her loving nanny. No matter how many female influences there are, no one is her Mom. That's what life dealt her.

    Daddy is now what matters. He's the one that will feed, clothe, bathe, get to school, punish, hug and kiss. If he never gets married again, that's who she's got and thank God he's a present and loving father.

    If somebody loves us heart and soul, who really cares if they are male or female?

  3. #63
    Silver Member Green-eyed-hottie's Avatar
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    "Natural"... please.. whoever says its not natural needs to go back to school and study that topic!
    That's all I'm gonna say..
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  4. #64
    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalet View Post
    I've got two scenarios:

    I know a gay couple who found an ad by a lawyer in a small town paper who said there will be twins up for adoption in 8 months. The pregnant woman had a one night stand, and had 5 kids at home already. The woman had contacted the lawyer.

    The couple was interviewed by the pregnant woman and they adopted the twin - girls. So two gay men are raising two girls. Those girls are the stars of their neighborhood.


    My friend died leaving a 4 1/2 year old daughter. The Dad is the best Dad ever. He's now Mom and Dad. Nuclear family is over. She's got the grandma, the aunt, me, school Moms and her loving nanny. No matter how many female influences there are, no one is her Mom. That's what life dealt her.

    Daddy is now what matters. He's the one that will feed, clothe, bathe, get to school, punish, hug and kiss. If he never gets married again, that's who she's got and thank God he's a present and loving father.

    If somebody loves us heart and soul, who really cares if they are male or female?
    Those are two really compelling stories. It's great that you can be there for your friend and his little girl.

  5. #65
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    The original poster (a gay man BTW) asked for 'honest' opinions. I wish we could debate every angle of this important topic objectively without getting personal or assuming that just because someone expresses a view that it's their personal opinion. Let's open up the debate instead of trotting out the usual PC platitudes for fear of being accused of being homophonic or bigoted. Whether we like it or not there are people who are genuinely unhappy about this subject and shouting them down as being ignorant (or worse) isn't going to make them change their minds - quite the opposite in fact.

    Of the several gay couples I know, none has ever expressed a wish to have children. In fact, some of them absolutely do NOT want kids under any circumstances. Ditto several hetero couples I know who are finally daring to say they do not want to be parents. You should hear the crap the rains down on them from people demanding to know why they are so 'selfish' or plain 'weird' for not wanting to breed. You can't win.

    Fine then. The gay man who started this thread said this: ...It's the part where there's no mother or no father. Just not the way God intended. He asked for honest opinions and he got them. It is ridiculous also to start a thread like this, put a personal view down like that, and then say 'please noone get offended". And that 'view'(what I quoted) is obviously a personal opinion don't you think? And PC platitudes? I hate it when people pull the 'PC card"-sure there is PC, but there is also just plain stupidity, ignorance, false information, bigotry, predudice, and it should be called out for what it is.

    And often the people who fear being labeled a bigot fear that, because, they ARE bigoted and they know it...they just do not want to admit it or own up to it. Is not using the word nigger or faggot just 'being PC"..or is it just being a decent human being to refrain from using those words?

    If someone is going to start a thread on a touchy subject with an inflammatory first post( and for a supposed gay guy to say what I quoted is damn well inflammatory IMO..and I will just leave it at that as I am not going to personally attack said poster...then that person had better be prepared to face some serious posting.

    I do not see anything as PC or not PC regarding this issue-either you are a bigot or you are not.

    If you are opposed to gay adoption then you are a bigot IMO..there is nothing "PC or not PC" about it-same with racism, sexism, etc. Also if they are being ignorant or bigoted then I am going to call them out on it-and I am not trying to change their minds-I am speaking out supporting basic human and civil rights.


    To me you really might as well say 'we should try and have an intelligent conversation regarding the pros and cons of the re-institution of slavery or women as chattel.

    *to deny someone something like a basic right that other people have simply because of their sexual orientation, nation of origin, color, religion, race, etc. is bigotry.*
    Don't slap me, cause I'm not in the mood!

  6. #66
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    First, let's not get mad at each other-we might have to agree to disagree here.This is a soul searching question I think those of us who are parents stop to consider. Should something happen to you and all other close relatives at the same time, should your children be left orphaned, would you want them to remain a ward of the state,moved from house to house like a vagabond if no one would take them but a gay couple? Or would you want someone who would adore them & commit themselves to raising that child ? Would anything else matter to you other than the welfare of your child? No one is more ideal than the parents, but things happen. Death,drugs,on & on. Any child unable to be raised by their own parent is disadvantaged compared to most children,true. What would you want for your child? IMO, make sure loving people have him. Whoever!
    I also want to again go on record: I firmly believe some people are not cut out to be parents-gay,straight,whatever. I hate it when someone tries to shame someone into having kids! Horrible! But there are those of us who have a deep need to nurture, to raise a child. Those people usually make fine parents IMO.
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  7. #67
    A*O
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    Soj - we have known each other for a very long time now. If you seriously believe that I'm a bigot then there's nothing more to say really.
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  8. #68
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    if one wants to argue the nature route then a baby doesn't really need a father either. a woman just needs his sperm and maybe to drop some groceries once in a while.
    i don't think it really matters but i do wonder why gay guys especially want to get into the baby game anyway. gay men have a very important role but i don't think it's child rearing.

  9. #69
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    Don't say rearing.

  10. #70
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    Don't say rearing.
    Now cut that out,Allie!!!
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  11. #71
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    I never needed my father. In fact, as a person, I would have so fewer hangups about myself, my body, and men in general if my father had never been part of my life. My father was a selfish bastard who never wanted kids and he made sure I knew it on some level virtually every day of my life until I finally had enough and severed that relationship. I dip into my personal history to say that some people just should not be parents. But people who want them no matter what should be able to have them. Maybe that is why gay parents are good parents--they truly want their kids and have so many obstacles to getting them.

    Sure my attitude is "PC." But it is truly my opinion. I was actually raised to believe homosexuality is a sin. I grew up firmly entrenched in the Bible Belt and all of its teachings and social mores. But as I got older, I began to see that what I was raised to think and believe was just closed minded and wrong. I truly began to believe and still do that if you take a group of people and exclude them from something based on who they are or what they are, that is bigoted behavior. The upsetting thing to me is how this behavior is currently condoned by a huge section of society. I do not believe that homosexuals choose to be gay any more than a black person chooses to be black. Just as racism is an ugly thing, I believe homophobia is an ugly thing. I truly do equate the two. Back in a less enlightened time, there were those who believed that black people were inferior. They could find justification in the Bible for it, they had laws legislating racism. It took a very long time but we now can look back on that ugly history as just that. Obviously racism still exists but no one would EVER think of denying someone a job, children, or anything else on the basis of race. I have to believe that some day as a culture we will become more enlightened and look back on this as a time when we as a culture were just ignorant.

  12. #72
    Elite Member effie2's Avatar
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    There is a lot of anger and pain in some of the posts,and i can undestand it.I dont feel insulted at all.
    I can understand..at least i try..my way of thinking is different..i dont make rules, just this is how i feel.
    I ve seen a lot,i have kids,been around them all my life.
    I still dont think it will be fine in the long run..fat parents and stuff happens everyday,gay parents not so much.
    Those kids either in a closed community or out in the open,will have more issues to face.
    Not because I post in here,its just the way things are,change them first,and then maybe.
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  13. #73
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    I do not believe that homosexuals choose to be gay any more than a black person chooses to be black. Just as racism is an ugly thing, I believe homophobia is an ugly thing. I truly do equate the two. Back in a less enlightened time, there were those who believed that black people were inferior. They could find justification in the Bible for it, they had laws legislating racism. It took a very long time but we now can look back on that ugly history as just that.
    I totally agree. I pretty much equate discrimination based on sexuality with discrimination based on race, sex, nationality etc. Things that are pretty much sewn into a person's core that they can't change. Being someone that has been discriminated based on race, I get quite irate when I see someone else discriminated based on some part of their non-changing identity.

    I think suggesting limiting kids for adoption based on the parents sexuality is about as silly as limiting kids for adoption based on the parents race. How about we limit white parents to only adopt white babies, and that includes international adoption? Wait until the kids are old enough to be asked. Who does that help in the end? Certainly not the kids. And if anyone thinks that there aren't similar issues with white parents adopting brown babies, there are a growing list of books coming out on the very topic as many of these children come of age now.

    I wouldn't for a second advocate that either of these types of adoptions be stopped, stalled or limited however both have issues and to pooh pooh one, and not the other as "not natural" is pretty bizarre to me, since the whole concept of adoption, is "not natural" being that these parents did not conceive these children.

  14. #74
    Elite Member DoveFeatheredRaven's Avatar
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    I am seeing younger people becoming more open-minded in their way of thinking. I have worked around teenagers for years and they are growing more liberal by generation. I think soon the only ones who could cause the child of a gay couple problems might be other adults.

  15. #75
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doriangray View Post
    i don't think it really matters but i do wonder why gay guys especially want to get into the baby game anyway. gay men have a very important role but i don't think it's child rearing.
    *sigh*

    What makes you think the fathering and nurturing instinct that you find in straight guys is somehow alien to gay men? Hello, we have it too!

    ... ok, maybe not ME, but children annoy the shit out of me the same way yappy dogs do

    Secondly, we'll define our 'roles' as we see fit, just like str8 people do. Why does the GAY somehow mean we are incapable or not 'supposed' to raise children?

    Give me a break.

    Has anybody been able to answer these questions?

    1) Since study has detemined there are no adverse effects on children raised by gay parents, why do people feel gays shouldn't raise kids?

    2) Why do people feel that gays shouldnt adopt infants, and somehow magically wait for the kid to be aware enough to decide whether he wants gay parents? Do recall point 1.

    3) What has determined that gays are unable, incapable, or otherwise ill-suited to raise children?

    Being 'uncomfortable' is not an answer.

    'Worried' is also not an answer, given the studies that show no adverse effects on kids

    'just not right' is not an answer

    'not what go intended' is not an answer

    Give me something SUBSTANTIATED, something CONCRETE, something that is no just a knee jerk or unfounded prejudice.
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