Assimilate or go home - discuss

[pacific breeze]

Some progress HAS been made, but the overall picture is bleak, at least here in Canada. Casino gambling has made some individuals and bands rich, but most are still poor and downtrodden by a culture that pays lip service to them but still practices overt, vicious discrimination. And there is bad stuff going on in the reserves in the form of smuggling etc., which has caused a lot of strife. Remember the Oka riots/standoff about 15 years ago?

Casinos are not exactly the kind of sustainable industry that builds stable societies or economies -- most are minimum wage jobs and corruption on all political levels is rampant. Never mind the social problems they entail, which are considerable and not just to the native communities. As a journalist who covered courts, I can tell you that the number of aboriginals in jail compared to the larger population is tremendously high. I don't know the exact stat, but it's at least 10 times. And I won't even get into their treatment at the hands of police. Just google Saskatchewan police and aboriginals or First Nations if you want to read some horror stories in ONE particular place among hundreds.

If there was one thing I could change about my country, it would be our shameful treatment of aboriginals.

[Sojiita]

I agree the situation is bleak but at least with some casinos in some areas there has been some improvement in basic living conditions, etc. I guess the success stories are few and far between. I can't think of any marginalized/discrimimated against group that does not have very high levels of substance abuse and/or criminal activity. I guess in isolated rural Canada things much be even worse for people. On the one hand I see a relatively well off and healthy(relatively mind you) Navaho nation and the New England area casino tribes, but again on the other are the inumerable reservations scattered over much of western and central North America that just do not get even thought about. Well one thing we both can bet on is that neither of our current national governments give a rat's ass about any of these people and we can't expect much improvement in the near future given this regrettable fact.

[pacific breeze]

It's funny tho -- I have a writer friend I'd know for about 10 years who all of sudden discovered that she was 1/8 Metis. Since then she's had every government grant you can shake at stick at -- literally tens of thousands of dollars. I know another woman here in Vancouver who's 1/4 native and she is what I call a "professional" Indian -- her whole lucrative business consists of government grants and other freebies. She knows how to play the system and then some. She even got $45,000 to write her memoirs -- at the age of 25 -- and of course never wrote anything. But the government wrote off the debt because she is "successful." Take away her govt. contracts and her "business" is history. So sometimes it works the other way, but not often.

[Sojiita]

^^taking advantage like that is disgusting. BTW, whenever I click on this thread I see this ad for GETTING AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP!!! C'mon people ..what are you waiting for? BEE UN AMURKIN! YeeHaw!!!!

[moomies]

I have a friend who is not aboriginal but looks aboriginal. When he goes shopping, the cashiers assume he is one and don't charge him any taxes...

Anyhoo, back to topic.
As a LEGAL alien in Canada, I feel that if you are to immigrate to a new country, you should at least have some admiration for the culture and willingness to adapt to and adopt the new lifestyle. I'm not too fond of the word assimilate though, it kinda sounds forcefull ("We are the borg. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated!!!").
I'm all for preserving one's own ethnic identity and I am very grateful for Canada's multiculturalism. Ppl in general here are encouraged to speak their mother tongues, teach and learn other languages, celebrate their and others' ethnic heritages and so on. This is what I love most about Canada, Canada is a cultural mosaic with each distinct piece intact, rather than a melting pot (this is not an insult to the American culture but rather my personal preferance and distinction between Canadian culture and American IMO).

I've often wished that I'd be able to rid my Japanese accent and speak like a "real" Canadian. I don't want to come off like victimizing myself but I do get treated differently because of my accent. Ppl often tend to speak to me very very slowly like I'm a moron while others (e.g. Green Peace, SPCA and other charitable workers on the street trying to sign ppl up etc) just assume that I don't speak English and ignore me because I'm Asian. Some ppl have made fun of my accent trying to mimic those stereotypical Japanese sounds (I guess the way Samurai or Yakuza talk in a Western movie with a stern voice and some messed up vowels). But I've done my best to learn English and this is as good as it gets, I accept that I will probablly not be able to get rid of my accent. Plus I love other ppl's accents and I love different cultures. I just hope that there are others who would like my accent and my culture and wish that I wouldn't change.

Ok, the point I wanted to make was that I don't feel like an outcast though I still speak with an accent and I do things differently than the average Canadians because of how tolerant and accepting most Canadians are.

[Grimmlok]

Whatev, Japanese accents are cool. Plus your english is better than most natives here lol

[sputnik]

i agree, immigrants have to respect the law of the land. i'm all for multiculturalism but that doesn't mean different judicial systems, it just means allowing for diversity in cultural expression such as language, education, art.
it's hard to strike a balance between the melting pot and multiculturalism, one leads to people losing their cultures and the other, if taken to the extreme, can lead to a sectarian society with people living in 'ghettos' with people from their country and speaking only their language and not interacting with society at large.

[WickedHo]

I always thought the term "melting pot" meant you've got a bunch of different ingredients all in one pot together. Like a stew. Have I been wrong all this time? Does "melting pot" mean all ingredients get melted together in one pot for the purpose of becoming one thing?

[MgMMD]

There is a large population of Muslim's in Houston. I am lucky enough to know quite a few of them. They are law abiding Americans who appreciate the division of church and state. They are also very modern thingking intellectual people. I know that in every community there are fucknuts however ( Hey! I live in the land of the SUPERCHURCH) I am very, very sorry to the people who think I am UN PC but let's state facts. I do not want a country founded on the bible OR the Koran, OR the Torah, etc and so on.
So if you can't deal with the seperation of church and state or that we DEFEND out rape victims...well you are in the wrong country. I won't push my christian laws, you don't push your laws...we all get along.

Edited to add: and I do believe in the "salad Bowl". Everyone brings their ingredients and we end up having a tasty dish <--- hell yeah it's lame but it is the best analogy.

[Grimmlok]

*giggles and thinks about tossing salads*

[A*O]

There is difference between preserving your cultural heritage, customs, language, etc and yet be willing to speak the language of your adopted homeland, obey its laws and respect its social and moral values and keeping yourself aloof and separated by not doing any of those things. Many migrant communities feel that by assimilating they are somehow diluting their cultural identity but if you CHOOSE to live in another country then it's not unreasonably to expect you to participate fully in the wider community. I think that's the point our Treasurer was making.

The 'kouri problem' is a blot on our otherwise fair and tolerant society. They are maginalised to the point of invisibility in some areas and tend to live in very isolated communities with limited to access to jobs, adequate healthcare and education. There are vociferous champions of the kouri predicament who do raise public awareness, but I'm afraid the average Aussie in the street doesn't really give a damn. By contrast the indigenous Maori people of New Zealand are visible and integrated into society with a strong cultural tradition, language (eg, there is a national Maori TV station) and seem to co-exist in a much more obvious way. Perhaps it's because the Maori are traditionally a warrior nation who fought hard to retain their land rights, etc, when the Europeans first settled in New Zealand. A Maori guy explained that it could also be because the Maori speak one language (technically they are polynesian) instead of a variety of different languages, dialects, etc which gives them a sense of cultural unity. There are literally hundreds of Australian kouri languages so each 'tribe' is separate, even with a small geographic area and there isn't the same cohesion.

[WickedHo]

"By contrast the indigenous Maori people of New Zealand are visible and integrated into society with a strong cultural tradition, language (eg, there is a national Maori TV station) and seem to co-exist in a much more obvious way. Perhaps it's because the Maori are traditionally a warrior nation who fought hard to retain their land rights, etc, when the Europeans first settled in New Zealand. A Maori guy explained that it could also be because the Maori speak one language (technically they are polynesian) instead of a variety of different languages, dialects, etc which gives them a sense of cultural unity. There are literally hundreds of Australian kouri languages so each 'tribe' is separate, even with a small geographic area and there isn't the same cohesion."

This makes A LOT of sense to me!

[pacific breeze]

Multiculturalism was one of Trudeau's legacies to Canada. It's much-maligned, but it works. As a teacher, I've noticed a huge difference even in the past five years -- students are almost always accepting of other cultures. When I was young and growing up in Alberta, there were no other cultures, at least that I had contact with. I never even saw a black person in the flesh until I was 10, never knew any Jewish people, Chinese people all owned cafes, and Indians were to be pitied and avoided because they were drunks and losers. I hardly ever heard a foreign language except for DPs -- displaced persons who'd immigrated to Canada after the Second World War, and I remember being frustrated because I knew there was a whole world out there that I wasn't a part of.

Vancouver has a huge immigrant population, and a lot of international students. Racism and intolerance exists, but it is MUCH less than it was even a few years ago.

[Grimmlok]

I grew up in a very whitebread part of Canada.. every year in schoool each class would have about 1 east indian kid, or one asian, or 1 single token ethnicity of some kind, surrounded by a sea of pasty faces Nobody treated them any different, but looking back it is kind of odd.

Moving to Toronto was fantastic for me, because it's so insanely diverse that after a very short time you don't even notice someone's race.. people are just people.

Going back to visit whitebread town is weird for me... everybody is frigging white. It's kinda creepy, and i miss the diversity that some of our cities have.

[deckchick]

Originally Posted by pacific breeze

I think those are two separate issues. Aboriginals were here BEFORE us, it's not like they immigrated to Oz or Canada.
I totally agree with you PB, they are separate issues, but at the same time they are very much connected.]

The reason I even mentioned them is twofold.

1. It's the Olympics, and A*O's reference reminded me if when Sydney had them and the media circus surrounding Cathy Freeman, the Aussie track star that won gold. Freeman was a great champion of the aboriginals, and rightly so.

2. Because of the publicity surrounding the above event, the fact that my youngest son is now working on a cruise ship that runs out of Sidney, I am very aware the similarities with Canada's and Australia's treatment of our "Native" people.

Originally Posted by pacific breeze

I'm curious why you think they couldn't live a horrid life on a isolated reserve, because the statistics are truly frightening in those places. No decent water, inadequate housing, no facilities, no medicine, HUGE drug and alcohol abuse, etc. etc. etc. The UN has had some pretty harsh things to say about human rights and aboriginals in Canada, not to mention the Third World conditions most live in.
There are a handful of successful reserves, but they are not without social problems of all descriptions. Aboriginals have the highest incidence of AIDS' infection and suicide in Canada. Suicide is the #1 cause of death among young aboriginals. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

I am not sure where you got that idea from. As a kid growing up in rural central Alberta, we lived on a farm where my grandmother and Uncle also had houses. I mention this because my family was very involved with fostering kids, we help raise 20+ Indian kids. In fact my mother adopted one, my oldest brother Joe is a full blood Cree. I know firsthand the appalling conditions that our natives lived in, and continue to live in. Another of my uncles was a missionary to the Inuit in the north. I grew up very religious, we always had visiting missionaries from Africa, China etc. I was always struck that we needed missionaries in Canada too.

BUT, back to the topic at hand.

I am very proud to be a Canadian, and I welcome anyone that wishes to immigrate to Canada. BUT this is Canada, not your country, so be proud of your heritage, keep your customs alive, but please respect ours.