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Thread: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

  1. #31
    Gold Member Karizma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    So let's get this straight: someone draws a stupid cartoon, and buildings are burned and people killed over it. Irregardless of how many peaceful protests took place, THATS STILL FUCKING STUPID. People DYING over it, killing each other and themselves over it? It's retarded!
    and who defended that?


    Secondly, the "western media" didn't overplay anything. Like I said, what I saw was balanced. Sorry, but buildings being torched and people being murdered over a cartoon is certainly newsworthy whether you think so or not. If the media was so biased, I would have never even HEARD of all the thousands of peaceful protests that took place but since I did, your theory is shot to hell. Also, nice assumption that it was to "distract" people from the insanity of Iraq, considering during the cartoon stupidity more and more people were getting blown up there, and it was being reported anyway. Could you reign in this silly and baseless "anti-western" bias a tad?
    Yes it did, when they keep mentioning the torching down of embassies and ignore the hundreds other demonstrations it give people like you the impression that ALL muslims in the demonstrations turned hupla and savage for cartoons!

    Of course the blow-ups will be reported, but did they keep mentioning and overplaying the victims of US torture in Iraq and Afghanistan? dont even try to convince me otherwise, i used to live in Ireland and saw that by myself. Whatever 'tragedy' done by Muslims will be in the news for a whole week, while 'tragedies' carried out by US and UK will be reported ONLY if they are too huge to be covered.

    and please stop your 'anti-Western' accusation already, its so immature to label people because they criticised one aspect of your life, your media.

    No, I live in Canada which is renowned for being objective and balanced and that includes our media. I've already proven that. Secondly, you don't think people in Islamic countries get their media filtered and tilted? Come on, most of you live in autocracies and dictatorships where the media is state owned or beholden to whatever potentate is currently oppressing you.
    Yes our media is being controlled by our governments or did you hear me say something different? But do you think i believe your countries live in pure democracy! as i said earlier, i have been in many western countries and lived in Ireland for some time, and i was surprised that your people dont get what really happens in our part of the world.

    Jewishness and Judaism are one and the same, just as Islam is meshed INEXTRICABLY with whatever culture it finds itself in. You can't insult one without the other.
    First would you elaborate how Islam INEXTRICABLY mesh itself with whatever culture?

    Secondly, please dont make laugh, a religion and its follower is the same? so you are saying insulting Osama Bin Laden is insulting Islam?!

    Secondly, last I checked crazy islamofascists were the ones strapping bombs to themselves and blowing people up in the name of Allah and his prophets. Islam has become twisted by these people, and said prophet and said Allah are being used as a reason for their insanity. I would say a bomb in the turban of said prophet is pretty damned clever, and points out how said religion is being twisted. Also, seeing as how there's no actual part of the Qu'ran that says you can't draw the guy, there's nothiong left to get pissed off about unless you lump yourself in with the crazies the cartoon is referring to.
    I think you are too smart to act fool here. Depiction of the Prophet was not the issue here, its porrtaying him as a terrorist and womanizer. Is that hard to understand? Is it hard to get that Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) is the most IMPORTANT figure in Islam, the representer of Islam and the most LOVED humanbeing to Muslims? Plus where is the objectivity in that? That Osama Bin Laden and his likes are terrorists? was it hard to get Osama's face, the last time i checked the guy has his photos flaunted all over the net and hence its easy to draw him.

    Plus if they have problems with suicide bombers, they could've easily print an ordinary Muslim guy as a sucide bomber and ridicule him and his act! Why did they have to draw the Prophet of Islam? Yes def. those who are using his name and the name of Allah (God in arabic btw) are the first ones to blame, but sinking to their level is just as wrong.

    Your 'freedom fighters' attack CIVILIANS, not the military. There's nothing honorable about blowing up a café filled with women and children. If they went after the military, I wouldn't give a damn.
    oh i am sorry and the IDF dont target civilians? Not less than 700 children have been killed by those cold-blooded assholes and yet they are not terrorists? Ariel Sharon, 'Man of Peace', is accused of war crimes in South Lebanon and yet the 'civilized' world is showing him utmost respect and recognition. Have you checked the massacres carried out by Israel since 1940s? the "terrorist" Hamas dont even come close to it.

    Secondly, its a fact that Israel's community is a militarized one. Everyone 18 and above are in the military. Men serve for three years, while women for 1.5 years and later on they are reservists, serving at least for two weeks every year until the age of 50! I dont call these civilians, they are soldiers in disguise. The only innocents are kids and as far as i am concerned i havent heard of one incident of Hamas targetting a school bus or school, and whomever do that are real terrorists.

    Thirdly, Hizbollah who are known for targetting military spots are also considred "terrorists" in the dictionary of US admin and many Western countries. There is no win there, we've got to bow for Zionists and their supporters to be considered 'civilized'. Oh well now i will be called anti-Western or anti-Semitic for saying so.

    There is a VAST difference, but you're too clouded to grasp my explanation.
    Yup sure, one is Arabic so he must be terrorist and the other is Israeli so he must be "defender" of his land. I mean this whole topic is so silly and biased that i dont even discuss it because its hard to convince your likes otherwise, you are too manipulated by the media to understand me.

    Life IS unfair, but torching buildings and killing people over an INCORRECTLY perceived offense is retardation.
    Oh please stop with this ranting, i said earlier torching down embassies is uncivilized and crime. And the life is unfair thing has nothing to do with it, otherwise homosexuals like you would've bow to religious orders and dont fight for their belief.

    How old were the prophets 'wives' ?
    since you brought up this question, i would like you to answer it and also provide us with how many did He marry, what were their status (married, divcorced, widow,or single) and why He married them? If you dont know then can you please state why you asked this question?

    As for accepting any religion, as long as it stays out of my face and doesn't even LOOK at my rights or try to take any away from me (including free speech, which in my mind is governed by one's personal politeness ethics) then fine. If it gets up in my face, in any way, I'll do my best to have it wiped from the earth. Christianity has already gotten up in my face, and Islam has as well.
    lol why did Islam threatned Canada? just kidding. It doesnt matter if you dont like Islam as long as you dont harm anyone. Many people, like myself, dont like homosexuality and abortions but its fine as long as we dont harm those who commit them.
    Last edited by Karizma; March 8th, 2006 at 01:34 PM.

  2. #32
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    and who defended that?
    Ignoring the torchings and murders in favor of pointing our all the peacable demonstrations is the same as defending them.

    Yes it did, when they keep mentioning the torching down of embassies and ignore the hundreds other demonstrations it give people like you the impression that ALL muslims in the demonstrations turned hupla and savage for cartoons!
    I'm repeating this for the THIRD TIME: If that was the case, I would NOT have known about any of the other hundreds of peaceful demonstrations, thus that assumption IS BULLSHIT. Plus, do you live over here? Nope. How would you know?

    I already said the information was balanced on my end.. local, regional, and national. Maybe not in the US but i don't give a fuck since I don't live down there. I know how ridiculously biased their news is and frankly I'm surprised they know about anything going on outside their own borders.

    Of course the blow-ups will be reported, but did they keep mentioning and overplaying the victims of US torture in Iraq and Afghanistan?
    Um, that was on the news for a few months straight.. it was HUGE!

    dont even try to convince me otherwise, i used to live in Ireland and saw that by myself. Whatever 'tragedy' done by Muslims will be in the news for a whole week, while 'tragedies' carried out by US and UK will be reported ONLY if they are too huge to be covered.
    Well that's patently false, the torture issue was a massive deal over here.

    and please stop your 'anti-Western' accusation already, its so immature to label people because they criticised one aspect of your life, your media.
    Every one of your posts has some mention of "the west" being responsible for all the evils in your little sandheap part of the world. There is an almost total lack mention of responsibility for what goes on over there being in the hands of the people.. it's always some foreign boogyman. Islamonutjobs torch embassies? It's always "well the WEST does bad things too, blah blah blah". That's avoidance, passing the buck. It seems to be a theme.

    I know what the west has done, and continues to do but if your attitude is the norm wherever you live, its no wonder nothing ever changes. Its easier to blame everybody else around you.

    Yes our media is being controlled by our governments or did you hear me say something different? But do you think i believe your countries live in pure democracy! as i said earlier, i have been in many western countries and lived in Ireland for some time, and i was surprised that your people dont get what really happens in our part of the world.
    Sure, if they're stupid and rely on ridiculous news outlets like FOX. I like to get my media from a number of international sources.

    First would you elaborate how Islam INEXTRICABLY mesh itself with whatever culture?
    Someone invades a a Muslim country, it's seen as an assault on the religion itself. Someone insults said country, same thing. It's exactly how anybody who criticizes Israel is suddently an anti-semite.

    Secondly, please dont make laugh, a religion and its follower is the same? so you are saying insulting Osama Bin Laden is insulting Islam?!
    That seems to be what's happening.. a bomb on the prophets turban is a jab at the Islamofascists, and yet every muslim freaks out regardless. Insult a religion, and you insult its followers. Insult a follower, and apparently the whole religion is under siege or at least is portrayed to be that way.

    I think you are too smart to act fool here. Depiction of the Prophet was not the issue here, its porrtaying him as a terrorist and womanizer.
    Oddly, numerous international reports seem to say both.

    Is that hard to understand? Is it hard to get that Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) is the most IMPORTANT figure in Islam, the representer of Islam and the most LOVED humanbeing to Muslims?
    No, but why anybody would go rampaging and murdering people because this 'love' is so strong is beyond me.

    Plus where is the objectivity in that? That Osama Bin Laden and his likes are terrorists? was it hard to get Osama's face, the last time i checked the guy has his photos flaunted all over the net and hence its easy to draw him.
    Because ol Osama isn't the only one out there? Islam itself is being twisted, and who better represents the religion on the whole.. Osama, or Mohammed? THATS THE POINT.

    Plus if they have problems with suicide bombers, they could've easily print an ordinary Muslim guy as a sucide bomber and ridicule him and his act!
    But that wasn't the point!

    Why did they have to draw the Prophet of Islam? Yes def. those who are using his name and the name of Allah (God in arabic btw) are the first ones to blame, but sinking to their level is just as wrong.
    Well I just explained why, and InshaAllah you'll get it this time.

    oh i am sorry and the IDF dont target civilians? Not less than 700 children have been killed by those cold-blooded assholes and yet they are not terrorists?
    The IDF, from what I've been able to glean, does not regularely target civilians on purpose.

    Ariel Sharon, 'Man of Peace', is accused of war crimes in South Lebanon and yet the 'civilized' world is showing him utmost respect and recognition. Have you checked the massacres carried out by Israel since 1940s? the "terrorist" Hamas dont even come close to it.
    Yup, do you think I agree with the canonization of him? Nope, not one bit. Still, here we go again: Deflection of blame, or using someone elses atrocities to lessen the impact of your own. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.

    Secondly, its a fact that Israel's community is a militarized one. Everyone 18 and above are in the military. Men serve for three years, while women for 1.5 years and later on they are reservists, serving at least for two weeks every year until the age of 50! I dont call these civilians, they are soldiers in disguise.
    By that logic, every Palestinian is a suicide bomber waiting to happen, in disguise. Don't be ridiculous.

    The only innocents are kids and as far as i am concerned i havent heard of one incident of Hamas targetting a school bus or school, and whomever do that are real terrorists.
    Uh, they've done it a number of times.

    Thirdly, Hizbollah who are known for targetting military spots are also considred "terrorists" in the dictionary of US admin and many Western countries. There is no win there, we've got to bow for Zionists and their supporters to be considered 'civilized'. Oh well now i will be called anti-Western or anti-Semitic for saying so.
    No you won't, and nobody said you had to bow.. least of all before the hypocritical US and Israelis. If everyone in the region would just grow the fuck up and stop the idiotic finger pointing "but he did this!" game, things would change. Unfortunately, both sides are too in love with their own faux blamelessness to take any responsibility for the past, and then MOVE FORWARD.

    Yup sure, one is Arabic so he must be terrorist and the other is Israeli so he must be "defender" of his land. I mean this whole topic is so silly and biased that i dont even discuss it because its hard to convince your likes otherwise, you are too manipulated by the media to understand me.
    I'm sorry, so far I've shown myself to be quite neutral while you've been railing on about how unfair everything is, and how everything is someone elses fault, and how this atrocity is not as big as some other one... lack of responsibility.

    Oh please stop with this ranting, i said earlier torching down embassies is uncivilized and crime.
    .. and then topping it off with "But other people do bad things too" which is, in the end, deflection.

    And the life is unfair thing has nothing to do with it, otherwise homosexuals like you would've bow to religious orders and dont fight for their belief.
    There's a difference: We're not out to oppress anybody or conquer anything, or convert people.

    since you brought up this question, i would like you to answer it and also provide us with how many did He marry, what were their status (married, divcorced, widow,or single) and why He married them? If you dont know then can you please state why you asked this question?
    um, I asked the question because obviously if someone thought he was a pedophile then he engaged in sexual behavior with someone quite young. Why else would I ask?

    Besides, don't you know the answer?

    lol why did Islam threatned Canada? just kidding.
    I wasn't talking about Canada, I was talking about my kind.

    It doesnt matter if you dont like Islam as long as you dont harm anyone.
    I don't have a problem with any religion till it has a problem with me, and so many seem to.

    Many people, like myself, dont like homosexuality and abortions but its fine as long as we dont harm those who commit them.
    Yes it is. Unfortunately, we're murdered all the time in the name of Islam, as we're 'abominations'. That's how Islam has gotten all up in my face, and until those murders are stopped I'll hate Islam and any other religion with my last breath, equally.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #33
    Gold Member Karizma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    Ignoring the torchings and murders in favor of pointing our all the peacable demonstrations is the same as defending them.
    who ignored them? If you check my previous posts, in all of them i condemed these acts.

    Um, that was on the news for a few months straight.. it was HUGE!
    I know it was huge, but the problem is still ongoing and many new photos of torture came out but this time they werent as huge, although they were more digusting.

    Every one of your posts has some mention of "the west" being responsible for all the evils in your little sandheap part of the world. There is an almost total lack mention of responsibility for what goes on over there being in the hands of the people.. it's always some foreign boogyman. Islamonutjobs torch embassies? It's always "well the WEST does bad things too, blah blah blah". That's avoidance, passing the buck. It seems to be a theme.
    Every post of your mention Islam, does that mean you are some Islamophobic? And i know myself and my opinions, i never blamed the West for ALL the evils that happened in this world. I am one of those who recognize our mistakes and imperfections, who believe we are living in denial and obsession that others hate us. That we are stuck in some century and refuse to progress. I blame Arabic countries for Iraq war, because they provide bases for US/UK military. I hate the fact that we are un-industrialized world, that we might miss the technological evolotion as well. I hate that we have puppets as leaders and how we turned our region into some shameful spot in this world. I respect the West for many things like their laws, freedoms (not all), progression, technology, and science. But that doesnt mean that the West is perfect and here and then i am pushed to menrtion its crimes when some citizens of the West act as if they are angels.


    Someone invades a a Muslim country, it's seen as an assault on the religion itself. Someone insults said country, same thing. It's exactly how anybody who criticizes Israel is suddently an anti-semite.
    Well when ONLY Muslims countries are being bombarded since the war of Vietnamme then yes of course occupiers dont leave another impression. I mean Libya, Iraq (98), Sudan, Bosnia, Kosovo, and Chechnya are examples of invalid wars and crimes against humanity. and as you said not only Muslims thinks that way but also Jewish about Israel. But i agree with you some wars are about Oil and other natural resources but indulging religion is more like adding spice to the meal, to attract more sympathizers and hence fighters and financial supports.


    That seems to be what's happening.. a bomb on the prophets turban is a jab at the Islamofascists, and yet every muslim freaks out regardless. Insult a religion, and you insult its followers. Insult a follower, and apparently the whole religion is under siege or at least is portrayed to be that way.
    Oh please dont lie to yourself, I'm not a terrorist/Islamofascist nor the millions that demonstrated their anger. Its like saying if you demonstrate your anger at some cartoonist for labeling homosexuals as immoral beasts, you are then homosexuality fundie. I already explained the reasons why Muslims found that offensive and it has nothing to do with terrorism. The cartoonists have no point but to link Islam to terrorism. I dont recall demonstartions for insulting Osama, Al-Zarqawi or even Al-Qaeda. I just explained i didnt see any demonstrations for Abu Gharib and Guantanamo prisons, which i am surprised at.

    No, but why anybody would go rampaging and murdering people because this 'love' is so strong is beyond me.
    I think we have common ground here, killing, threatning to kill and torching down Embassies or other properties are unjustified.

    Because ol Osama isn't the only one out there? Islam itself is being twisted, and who better represents the religion on the whole.. Osama, or Mohammed? THATS THE POINT.
    Ok this doesnt need a rocket scientist. The religion is represented by Prophet (PBUH), the terrorism is by Osama and his likes. Its like Zionism is represented by Theodor Herzl and later by Ben Gurion and Judaism by Moses (PBUH). Crusadors by Catholic Pope and Christianity by Jesus Christ (PBUH). Tamil Tigers by Tamil Rebels and Buddhism by Budhha. Its not that hard, isn't?

    Well I just explained why, and InshaAllah you'll get it this time.
    Yup and your point was proven wrong. If that newspaper had any objectivity or even a valid point, why did they refuse to print Jesus Christ (PBUH) fearing to upset their Christian public?

    The IDF, from what I've been able to glean, does not regularely target civilians on purpose.
    Yup sure, 700+ killed children died because God sent Angels and they killed them using F16 and Apaches.

    Or you know what? i know the Palestinian/Israelis conflict is one of the worst examples of biased and most hypocritic journalism in the Irish/British/US media, specially the US. So perhaps Canadian media is the same. I refrained using Western media so i wont be called 'anti-Western'

    Yup, do you think I agree with the canonization of him? Nope, not one bit. Still, here we go again: Deflection of blame, or using someone elses atrocities to lessen the impact of your own. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.
    Take responsibility of what? I'm not Palestinian but i think its lame to ask them to take responsibility when they dont have a country, army or even national infrastructure. Their historic land is taken, and 67 territories are annexed by Israel. Even these fanatic assholes who live among them, settlers, are being equipped with weapons. What worse than that?

    By that logic, every Palestinian is a suicide bomber waiting to happen, in disguise. Don't be ridiculous.
    Oh please, please dont even start with is. If it was a LAW that every Palestinian age 18 and above must enlist in their militias, then yes you are right. But this is not the case and dont even fool yourself, its not logic conclusion its the [b]fact[/n]. Israel is the ONLY country is this world that has such law, hence it makes its community distinctive and militarized. However, you know that most of militants that were targetted by IDF NEVER committed any terrorism, but they were "about to commit", how do they know these miltants werent going to attack military spots? did they use 'Minority Report' techniques? so using tit-for-tat technique reservists should be treated just like the militants.

    Uh, they've done it a number of times.
    really when? I'm not talking about random gun men but organized militias like Hamas, Fatah and Al-Aqsa Martyrs. I'm sure about the first two groups, not so sure about the last one.

    I'm sorry, so far I've shown myself to be quite neutral while you've been railing on about how unfair everything is, and how everything is someone elses fault, and how this atrocity is not as big as some other one... lack of responsibility.
    I think i was neutral and you've been so leftist. I didnt recall blaming "innocent" or downplaying any atrocities. In fact i think i am the one who keeps mentioning our own mistakes and crimes, while you only focusing on 'Islamofascists' doings.

    and then topping it off with "But other people do bad things too" which is, in the end, deflection.
    well not really, when someone only focuses on your imperfection and flaws continiously, you've got to remind him/her of their own mistakes and imperfection. Its more like practice what you preach instead of preaching others to practice. It has nothing to do with "your bad, am good" or "my team is better than yours", its rather "you are not perfect either".

    There's a difference: We're not out to oppress anybody or conquer anything, or convert people.
    oh we are the same, the majority are. And if Islam has some 'Islamofascist', some homosexuals are warmongers and serve in the army.

    um, I asked the question because obviously if someone thought he was a pedophile then he engaged in sexual behavior with someone quite young. Why else would I ask?
    I dont know why you ask and that's why i asked.

    Yes it is. Unfortunately, we're murdered all the time in the name of Islam, as we're 'abominations'. That's how Islam has gotten all up in my face, and until those murders are stopped I'll hate Islam and any other religion with my last breath, equally.
    When are you murdered? i know Iran does it but there are over 70 Islamic countries. You know its ironic how you stated above that in Qur'an the depiction of Prophets are not forbidden, actually never mentioned. Did you look up for homosexuality? It doesnt say MURDER them either. Yes it does call it immorality (a reason enough to hate it, lol) , but it doesnt call for their elimination or execution.

  4. #34
    Hit By Ban Bus! UndercoverGator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbara
    I'm thinking more and more about reading Ibn Warraq's book, Why I am not a muslim.
    Excellent read and a very revealing insight into the minds of muslims. It's not the peace loving religion they like to make it out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karisma
    Take responsibility of what? I'm not Palestinian but i think its lame to ask them to take responsibility when they dont have a country, army or even national infrastructure. Their historic land is taken, and 67 territories are annexed by Israel.
    Excuse me but that is not completely correct. The British seized the lands after WWII and gave them back to my people. After what occurred in Europe during WWII the Jews needed some place to resettle. It was merely righting an old wrong.

    That being said there should be also lands for the Palestinians. They should be free to rule their own people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip without interference or threat from Israel. But the entire Arab world needs to stop blaming Israel and the Jewish population of the world for their own problems. We're not going anywhere.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    I don't agree with giving the Palestinian land, in any way, to the european jews after ww2 the way it was done. It wasn't righting a wrong, the tribes of Israel left 2000 years ago, and others moved in and made a society.

    To boot them out 2000 years later for some other group of people has been one of the largest mass deportations in history. THAT was wrong. Taking the land by force and removing the indigenous population, in effect a purge, was like what the Nazi's conjured up, but instead of gas chambers untold thousands dies in squalid refugee camps. They had their homes and land stolen from them.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Gold Member Elise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    Quote Originally Posted by UndercoverGator
    Excellent read and a very revealing insight into the minds of muslims. It's not the peace loving religion they like to make it out to be.
    I guess my Islam is not the Islam of the people you know or have spoken to. I have found great inner peace within the religion & I have no hatred for ANYONE.
    A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror. -Ken Keyes Jr.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    Not even the fabulous homosexuals ?
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    I don't agree with giving the Palestinian land, in any way, to the european jews after ww2 the way it was done. It wasn't righting a wrong, the tribes of Israel left 2000 years ago, and others moved in and made a society.

    To boot them out 2000 years later for some other group of people has been one of the largest mass deportations in history. THAT was wrong. Taking the land by force and removing the indigenous population, in effect a purge, was like what the Nazi's conjured up, but instead of gas chambers untold thousands dies in squalid refugee camps. They had their homes and land stolen from them.
    For the record I don't agree with how it was done either but it's been done so the best thing we can all do is try to get along, something most of the Arab countries don't seem content to do..

  9. #39
    Gold Member Karizma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    I don't agree with giving the Palestinian land, in any way, to the european jews after ww2 the way it was done. It wasn't righting a wrong, the tribes of Israel left 2000 years ago, and others moved in and made a society.

    To boot them out 2000 years later for some other group of people has been one of the largest mass deportations in history. THAT was wrong. Taking the land by force and removing the indigenous population, in effect a purge, was like what the Nazi's conjured up, but instead of gas chambers untold thousands dies in squalid refugee camps. They had their homes and land stolen from them.
    Thanks for explaining my point better, even if it was unintentional. I dont have probems with Israel because they are Jewish, its political reaons more than anything. Of course some zealots have turned it into Islam Vs Judaims.

    Quote Originally Posted by UndercoverGator
    For the record I don't agree with how it was done either but it's been done so the best thing we can all do is try to get along, something most of the Arab countries don't seem content to do..
    Sure and Israel just strives to make peace with Arabs. Let's see will Israelis agree to divide "their" land 50-50 with Palestinians? same situation the Pals were forced to in 1948.

    Anyway i am not Palestinian so if they are happy about 23% of their historic land, then i dont mind at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elise
    I guess my Islam is not the Islam of the people you know or have spoken to. I have found great inner peace within the religion & I have no hatred for ANYONE.
    i want to say that about myself but i know they won't believe me

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    I think everyone needs to get drunk and dance the night away and then cuddle.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Gold Member Elise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    Not even the fabulous homosexuals ?
    I really like gay people...it's none of my business who anyone loves. & I personally don't think being gay is "wrong" or "immoral."

    The only person I am responsible is for myself--I don't think it is fair for me to judge others based on my concept of right or wrong.
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  12. #42
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    Mohammed not a pedophile? So is this stuff BS then? http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    ewwwwwwwwwww
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Gold Member Elise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    Young marriage age controversy

    The age of Aisha at marriage is an extremely contentious issue. On the one hand, there are several hadiths (said to have been narrated by Aisha herself) which state she was six or seven years old when betrothed and nine when the marriage was consummated. Other traditional material (hadith, sira, etc.) suggests that Aisha may have been nineteen or twenty years old when she married.

    Many Muslim scholars have accepted the tradition that Aisha was nine years old when the marriage was consummated. This has in turn led critics to denounce Muhammad for having sexual relations with a girl so young, which in modern times would be classified as child sexual abuse. Some respond to this criticism by claiming that Aisha was post-pubescent at nine and that early marriages were common in most cultures until fairly recent times.

    However, other Muslim scholars point to other traditions that conflict with those attributed to Aisha in this matter. If the other traditions are right, this would imply that Aisha was either confused in her dating, was exaggerating her youth at marriage, or that her stories (which were not written down until more than 100 years after her death) had been garbled in transmission. If we believe traditions that say she was post-pubescent when married, then these other traditions, from Ibn Ishaq and Tabari and others, seem much more convincing.

    From the viewpoint of the Islamic clergy, the ulema, this explanation, while relieving them of one difficulty, poses another. The "late marriage" argument values the biographical and historical literature, the sira, over the canonical hadith, or oral traditions accepted by the ulema. However, anything that threatens the value of the hadith, and especially hadith narrated by Aisha, threatens the whole elaborate structure of Islamic law, or sharia. The Shi'a version of shari'a is less at risk in this one instance, as the Shi'a deprecate anything sourced to Aisha.

    Liberal Muslims do not see any problem with saving Muhammad's character at the expense of shari'a. Conservative Muslims, and the ulema, tend to embrace the "early puberty" theories.
    [edit]

    Evidence that Aisha was nine when the marriage was consummated

    These traditions are from the hadith collections of Bukhari (d. 870) and Muslim b. al-Hajjaj (d. 875). These two collections are in general regarded as the most authentic by Sunni Muslims.

    * Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

    * Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 Narrated 'Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

    * Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

    * Sahih Bukhari 8:151, Narrated 'Aisha: "I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet , and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

    * Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, Book 58, Number 234 Narrated 'Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage).

    Other hadith in Bukhari repeat this information.

    History from Tabari, volume 9, page 131

    * "Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"......(The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died.

    [edit]

    Evidence that Aisha was older than nine

    * According to Ibn Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's (d. 768) biography of Prophet Muhammad, the Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Aisha accepted Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab. If true, then Aisha accepted Islam during the first few years of Islam. She could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she got married (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).

    * Tabari reports that when Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Ethiopia (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Aisha was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Aisha as his son's wife. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam. If Aisha was only six years old at the time of her betrothal to Muhammad, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Ethiopia. Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, p. 38.

    * Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. If Aisha was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH. Tarikh al-umam wa al-mamloo'k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, p. 50.

    * According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was 35 years old. Muhammad migrated to Medina when he was 52, making Aisha 14 years old in 1 AH. Tamyeez al-Sahaabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalaniy, Vol. 4, p. 377.

    * According to Abd ar Rahman ibn Abi Zannad, Aisha was 10 years younger than her sister Asma. (Siyar a´lâm an-nubalâ', adh-Dhahabî, Vol. 2, p. 289, Mu'assat ar-Risâla, Beirut, 1992). That is also confirmed by Ibn Kathir (al-Bidâya wa-n-nihâya, Ibn Kathîr, Bd. 8, S. 371, Dâr al-Fikr al-´Arabî, al-Dschîza, 1933). Virtually all other historical reports also agree in this matter. Ibn Kathir also reports that Asma was present when her son died in 73 AH and she herself died 5 days thereafter (other reports differ slightly, giving between 5 and 100 days between the deaths of the two). At the time of her death she was 100 years old (al-Bidâya wa-n-nihâya, Ibn Kathîr, Vol. 8, p. 372, Dâr al-Fikr al-´Arabî, al-Dschîza, 1933). This is also confirmed by Ibn Hadschar al-´Asqalânî who reports that she died in 73 or 74 AH at the age of 100 years. (Taqrîb at-tahdhîb, Ibn Hadschar al-´Asqalânî, p. 654, Bâb fi-n-nisâ', harfu l-alif, Lucknow). But this means, of course, that Asma was 27 or 28 years old at 1 AH and the 10 years youger Aisha already 17 or 18, so when Muhammad and Aisha started to live together she was already 19 or 20.

    * Aisha has become known for having at the side of Muhammad in the battle of Badr (see for example hadiths by Muslim) as well as in the battle of Uhud (see e.g. hadiths by Bukhari). Bukhari also reports (Kitâb al-maghâzî, Bâb Ghazawat al-Khandaq wa-hiya l-Ahzâb) that the Prophet did not allow 14 year olds to participate but allowed them to join on their 15th birthday. This implies that Aisha was older at that time of these battles. However, it's also possible that the age restriction was not applied to Aisha as a wife of Muhammad.

    * In a hadith of Bukhari, Aisha says: "I was a young girl (dschâriya) when Surah al-Qamar was revealed (Sahîh al-Bukhârî, Kitâb at-tafsîr, Bâb qaulihî Ta´âlâ "Bali-s-sâ´atu mau´iduhum wa-s-sâ´atu ad-hâ wa-amarr"). That Surah was revealed 8 years before Hijra and at that time Aisha would have been at most a baby (sabiyya) had she been only 9 years old at the age of her marriage. The word dschariya is most fitting for a 6-13 year old which would mean her age of marriage would be anywhere between 14 and 21. However, the exact dates of when al-Qamar was revealed is disputed. Thus, making this a weak argument.

    * Most Muslims generally agree that Aisha had reached the age of puberty at her marriage. This would be unlikely for a 9 year old. In addition, Aisha was already termed 'bikr', meaning virgin adult woman even when the marriage was discussed, i.e. 3 years before the actual marriage. (Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol. 6, p. 210, Dâr Ihyâ' at-Turâth al-´Arabî, Beirut).

    * Some Muslim scholars[citation needed] say that the hadith collectors Bukhari and Muslim applied less stringent standards to hadith relating to history than they did to hadith relating directly to prayer and family law. Hence a historical tradition included in Bukhari or Muslim cannot be presumed to be "strong".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
    I tried to find a non-Muslim source of this, but from my understanding, Aisha was married to Muhammad for political reasons at a young age, but the marriage was no consumated until she was a teenager.
    A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror. -Ken Keyes Jr.

  15. #45
    Gold Member Karizma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Arab nations want UN resolution banning "slandering" of religion

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark
    Mohammed not a pedophile? So is this stuff BS then? http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm
    Yup its bullshit

    You know if you want to know about Islam, ask Muslims? I wanted to know more about Judaism and i asked Jews, the same thing about Buddhists. I have Christian friends whom i ask when i have any question regarding Christianity.

    These links are produced by haters. Just like some web pages about Talmud and its "sick" dogma is published by haters.

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