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Thread: Gays and building families

  1. #1
    Eli
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    Default Gays and building families

    I just want to talk about this if that's ok. Quite a distressing scenario I'm sure you can imagine for some people.
    I was reading an article about Palin about how she doesn't agree with gay marriage, etc. because children should be brought up in a proper family with mother and father. And I was like "oh please, go back to your deer gut".
    But then yesterday I was at a friend's house where this man came over, who was gay, and was 46, and was gossipy and a little strange, and had been out on the town the previous night, and was telling everyone my 25 year old friend was his boyfriend... and I suddenly realised: Even though Palin hasn't got the understanding of what it's like to be gay, she's actually right for the most part.
    And what a shitty realization!
    I'm sure one day I'll have a kid, but honestly it's going to be tough because I'd want the kid to have mother and father, and that probably couldn't happen without some sort of sadness. Lots of homo-sexuals would make great parents, and I'm sure do, but I always fear what a child would miss out on in life without a mother/father figure there. Fact is, we just don't know.

    Without getting angry, what do you think? I really am looking forward to having my own kid one day, but I fear the consquences. (And that is what I think is the fundemental political issues about gay marriage/families; not the fact that someone is gay)

    Maybe I'll just be like a great uncle to my partner's nephew or something.

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    Elite Member katerpillar's Avatar
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    You said "we just don't know" what the consequences of gay parenting may be - but even with a conventional family comprised of a male parent and a female parent who are married/defacto, you just don't know how that might turn out, either. I don't think anyone needs to point out that even conventional families can have utterly catastrophic outcomes. I would have prefered anything to the family situation I had to suffer through between the ages of 9 - 15. Being raised by a single parent, gay parents, divorced but sensible parents, whatever - they would have all been so much better. At least then, I wouldn't have have been left with the desire to erase a huge chunk of my memory.

    All a kid truly needs is someone (it doesn't really matter who) that loves, nurtures and supports them and provides a stable home. In my opinion, so long as a child's got that, there won't be any long-term consequences that you can't deal with.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Allie, lots of kids have already been raised by gay parents and have turned out fine.

    So no, she isn't right. A good parent (or parents) will raise a children to be decent human beings.

    This line of questioning falls into line with the usual GOP nonsense regarding single mothers. Oh how can she raise children without father figures?

    They do all the time. Somehow they find a way, much to the bafflement of neocons who think such things are impossible. Father figures often get transplanted to uncles, or teachers, or other people who can guide.

    It takes a village, always has.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    My son's father abandoned him when he was six months old. I raised him as a single parent until I married my husband when he was four. I made sure he had positive males in his life. Those people are still very involved in his life even though my husband adopted him and is his father. My son has autism and I have been very hurt by the way some in my family treat him and blown away how well he has been treated by people who aren't blood family at all. Familes are the people who love you.

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    Eli
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Allie, lots of kids have already been raised by gay parents and have turned out fine.

    So no, she isn't right. A good parent (or parents) will raise a children to be decent human beings.

    This line of questioning falls into line with the usual GOP nonsense regarding single mothers. Oh how can she raise children without father figures?

    They do all the time. Somehow they find a way, much to the bafflement of neocons who think such things are impossible. Father figures often get transplanted to uncles, or teachers, or other people who can guide.

    It takes a village, always has.

    Grimm, I understand that this is a touchy subject for you, but really, this isn't one of those many "Grimm says this so that's how it is" moments. It runs much deeper than what you've written. Again, single mothers/fathers do great jobs but they always wish deep down at some point that the missing parent were there.
    It's a tougher subject to tackle than it seems.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    They may always wish it, but the children turn out fine. There have been a number of studies done on it that show no discernible difference. As said, the missing figure who, traditionally, would be there is often transplanted and spread around to a few other people.

    For instance, my father was barely there. He was unengaged. He sat in his computer room and rarely exited. My mother always wishes she had ditched him and gotten a real father, and always asks if I missed not having one who was engaged.

    I told her "since it's all i've ever known, I don't feel like I've ever missed anything. I don't know what it's like to have an engaged father figure."

    and no, it's not a touchy subject.. it's just fact versus opinion concerning the topic. What has been scientifically studied versus opinions held with nothing to back them up.
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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    I personally know of two cases of gay males who are raising families. 1 in Texas ,foster son age 4. Delightful! Well adjusted kid, who has 2 doting Grandmothers and at least 1 Aunt. They have had him since babyhood. Kid is 100% hetero & well loved as far as I can see.
    Another,deep south-Mississippi. Well off. Stable everything and certainly on the top 2% money wise. Lives across the street from my bank president cousin. Picture this: adopted daughters 5th birthday. Sidewalk painted lavender. Pink balloons all the way up. Guests arriving in their best princess clothes-as they saw them. Joy and fun all the way-great support system,family,neighbors,parents from school. Hysteria reigns only if she is having a bad hair day. One Partner has been known to knock on Cousin's door early in the morning in the hopes that their Grandaughter had left a blue hair ribbon behind....
    Love know no boundries-especially the love of any parent for their child. Goes for straight or gay. Children have to feel secure that they are loved. They require patience on the long learning journey ahead. As long as you have some member of the opposite sex around regularly to balance things,do not worry. As Grimm says,you have to be engaged. The rest will fall into place.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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    Elite Member ConstanceSpry's Avatar
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    A loving environment is what is important and ideal for a child, doesn't matter if that's provided by a traditional married couple, two men, or 2 women. And as for Palin, I don't think having her underage daughter turn up pregnant because she has not been educated about birth control is proper parenting. Re. the weirdo at your friend's house, weirdos come in all genders, sexual orientations and colors, and kids are going to encounter them, regardless of who they are raised by.

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    Elite Member katerpillar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    My mother always wishes she had ditched him and gotten a real father, and always asks if I missed not having one who was engaged.

    I told her "since it's all i've ever known, I don't feel like I've ever missed anything. I don't know what it's like to have an engaged father figure."
    That's interesting, and it's what I've always suspected myself. My dad used to be an engaged father, but then he became seriously crap. And a small part of me secretly wishes mum will remarry so I'll get a nice step-father to replace what I once had, but lost. Like some sort of lame Disney movie. On the other hand, my friends who never knew their dad aren't fussed by it. They don't know otherwise, and they had grandfathers, uncles or step-dads to step in and be the masculine role models in their lives.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    I didn't even have any of those. Grandfathers both dead by the time i was born. Uncles i never saw, an when i did at xmas they were just as disconnected as my actual father. It was a very WASPy setup. Nobody talked to each other.

    Somehow I came out of it relatively normal.
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    Elite Member Jexxifer's Avatar
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    Absolutely, 100%, gay marriage should be recognized and gay couples should be able to adopt/build a family. Those should be basic human rights. Not all married couples have children, so for Palin (or anyone else) to say they don't support gay marriage because children need a mother and a father is faulty, failed "logic". They are 2 separate issues.

    Yes, it does "take a village", but the primary caregivers are the most important - whether that is grandparents, parents, whatever combo. People who are patient, loving and supportive will tend to be good parents; it doesn't matter if the parents are both male or both female. Where I live, approximately 40% of babies are born to unwed mothers, so I would say the whole idea of a traditional nuclear family is out the window anyway.

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