People, guns, people and guns.

[suede]

Do guns kill people or do people kill people?

American Gun is on right now and it's movie about a man that tracks the history of the revolver that was involved with the death of his daughter. (the daughter was shot when a robber asked for her purse and she won't give it to him)

In my own mind logically I can only accept that people kill people because a gun or any weapon for that matter can not kill someone without someone to put it into action.

What do you think?

[Grimmlok]

People kill people, but guns make it incredibly easy as tools. Why any sane population should be allowed access to them is beyond me.

[suede]

Originally Posted by Grimmlok

People kill people, but guns make it incredibly easy as tools. Why any sane population should be allowed access to them is beyond me.

Is it though?

Most women can't cock a handgun.

What if someone where handy with knives?

Or good in chemistry?

You could kill someone with an empty syringe.

Hmmm
I dunno.

[Tati]

There's something about guns that shifts the balance of power unreasonably. It's like if someone has a gun, they're suddenly invincible - guns are incredibly deadly, and pretty easy to use. Therefore,

a) unarmed or "less" armed people don't stand a chance against them, and either are forced to back down from violent confrontation or are killed. It is also easy to "accidentally" kill someone with a gun;

b) people who have acquired guns, even without seeking violence, may find it because a gun is like any other form of power - it corrupts. It elevates otherwise benign schoolyard confrontations and fistfights, it may lead people toward robbery or burglary who would not have otherwise gone there because they suddenly realize how easy it is to acquire money or cars now that they have a gun.

Guns can also kill from a distance. They are the most unfair weapon in an unfair fight. They are projectile weapons which can easily kill innocent bystanders. Knives, brass knuckles, empty syringes and the like do not have these properties, though of course a crime or violent act committed with them is just as wrong.

Bombs do have these properties. Both explosive and projectile weapons, in my mind, are terrifying.

[phishtickie]

I agree with Grimmlok and Tati. I have always been completely against the notion of allowing people by LAW for gods sake to have GUNS in the own home. Its absolutely absurd, ridiculous, idiotic and crazy. Its just asking for trouble. In my opinion, "people kill people" is an absurd excuse. Shit always happens, and guns are there to ensure that it happens more efficiently. Guns also put the idea in your head that you are in some way superior, more powerful or whatever. That idea,however in the back of your head it is, is bound to make you act like an idiot someday. Also, having a gun in the house just endangers your family and your children for no reason at all. It is absurd that an antiquated law such as "the right to bear arms" is still employed by any kind of society that likes to call itself modern, advanced and refined.

[A*O]

I have never lived in a country where it's a constitutional 'right' to own a gun and am very thankful for it. The murder stats speak for themselves.

[Barbara]

I fired different guns and among them pretty heavy ones (Beretta, Ruger) which made my hands and arm hurt after a couple of shots. I also fired the Swiss Army assault rifle (which IMO is a weapon close to perfection) and I agree with what Tati said:

There's something about guns that shifts the balance of power unreasonably. It's like if someone has a gun, they're suddenly invincible

Having a gun in your hand is quite a strange feeling, I have always been quite afraid of the object in itself and very careful handling it, and I wouldn't like the idea of having one at home.
(BTW, every swiss man who is in age of doing the military has his army weapon at home, but it doesn't affect the casualities statistics...).

Knives kill, too, but everybody has sharp knives at home and newspapers are "full" of tragical domestic killings with knives.

This was on the news here yesterday:

The Swiss government on Wednesday recommended to parliament that all gun owners must obtain a permit.

Bowing to resistance from lobby groups, the cabinet decided against a plan to create a central national weapons register.

The cabinet said it was opposed to the database on the grounds that the time and effort it would require would greatly outweigh the benefit.

If accepted by parliament, the amended law will bring Switzerland into line with the European Union's Schengen accord on cross-border crime, which Swiss voters agreed to sign up to last June.

The agreement, which removes border controls between signatory states, lays down minimum requirements for acquiring and possessing firearms.

The main change is that the previous distinction between retail and private purchases will no longer apply.

Both types of acquisition, as well as weapons obtained by inheritance, would have to be reported to a cantonal office.

Tagged before sale

Also part of the Schengen requirements, firearms must be tagged before sale, to aid police in criminal investigations involving weapons.

A reason must be given when applying for the permit but the buyer does not have to prove a need.

Hunters, sports shooters and collectors are exempt from giving a reason for purchase.

As soon as the accord comes into effect, unauthorised possession will be considered an infringement of the law.

The guidelines have a limited area of application and give the Swiss legislature a degree of flexibility.

Militia exempt

This means that the Schengen accord will have no effect on the Swiss militia, young people's shooting clubs, the right of soldiers to store their military rifles at home or the requirement that they return them when they leave the army.

Finally, Schengen will not affect hunting and shooting in Switzerland – national laws regarding such things as hunting permits, the hunting season and shooting events will still stand.

Switzerland has a strong gun lobby – the Swiss Shooting Association has 200,000 members – but its recent history of gun-ownership has been chequered.

In 2001 a gunman entered the cantonal parliament in Zug, killing 14 people before turning the gun on himself. All his firearms, including an army-issue assault rifle, were legally acquired.

The killings shocked a country with a higher per capita rate of gun ownership than the United States but comparatively little gun crime.

IMO such a register should exist, in fact I was shocked to discover it wasn't the case

[A*O]

I am very surprised too that Switzerland of all places which has a reputation for bureaucracy, order and conformity has such slack legislation for gun ownership or possession.

[SVZ]

Originally Posted by suede

Is it though?

Most women can't cock a handgun.

What if someone where handy with knives?

Or good in chemistry?

You could kill someone with an empty syringe.

Hmmm
I dunno.

it's much easier to kill a person with a gun.

you'd have to be within arm reach of a person to kill someone with an empty syringe and same with a knife.

plus the only purpose of a gun is to kill people. knives and syringes have other purposes.

what else can you use a gun for?

[suede]

Originally Posted by SVZ

what else can you use a gun for?

For sport.
Target practice at a public or private range.

I do agree with concept that some people that have guns in their hands seem to feel invinsible and yet that very same notion can be able to SUV drivers.

[Grimmlok]

You can't break into someones house and kill them with an SUV.

... well you could, but you'd have to go through their bedroom window. While they were sleeping.

[suede]

Originally Posted by Grimmlok

You can't break into someones house and kill them with an SUV.

... well you could, but you'd have to go through their bedroom window. While they were sleeping.

LOL

Hey I'm not dissing anyone opininon - I just wanted to hear them.

[trousers]

Gun control is an issue where I'm really torn. I like the idea of controlling access. Guns are very dangerous.

But I don't want to live in a country where the government has all the guns and the people have nothing. What if they abuse their power?

[Grimmlok]

Um, if you live in the US it's already happening despite having tons of access to guns.

You forgot the 'apathetic population' factor.

[buttmunch]

Guns suck and should be banned. Full stop.