Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: Autism and Vaccines: Why bad logic trumps science

  1. #1
    SVZ
    SVZ is offline
    Do fish have boogers? SVZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Venus
    Posts
    1,000,003,609

    Default Autism and Vaccines: Why bad logic trumps science

    The link between childhood autism and vaccines has, once again, been refuted. A large study by Columbia's Mailman School of Public Health Center for Infection and Immunity found no link between measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism cases. For many in the medical community, the issue is now closed.

    But why do many people continue to believe that there is a link despite overwhelming evidence? The answer is something that has more credibility than the best scientific study: personal experience.

    Many parents came to believe that vaccines caused their children's autism because the symptoms of autism appeared after the child received a vaccination. On a psychological level, that assumption and connection makes sense; but on a logical level, it is a clear and common fallacy with a fancy Latin name: post hoc ergo propter hoc ("after this, therefore because of it").
    Because the human mind seeks connections, people often misattribute causes, thinking that, "B happened after A did, so A must have caused B." The child was fine until he was vaccinated, and soon he showed signs of autism. It makes sense--except that it's not necessarily true. It's like saying "roosters crow before the sun rises, so the roosters must have made the sun rise."
    First-year students of statistics are constantly reminded that "correlation does not imply causation." That is, two events that appear to be causally related may not be; there are other possibilities. The appearance of causation may simply be coincidence; or A may have caused B, or B may have caused A; or there may be a third unknown factor relating to A and/or B. Only carefully controlled scientific studies can conclusively tell the difference.

    As it happens, autism often first expresses itself in children at about the same time that vaccinations are recommended for those children.
    According to lead author Dr. Mady Hornig, "We found no relationship between the timing of MMR vaccine and the onset of autism." In fact, the new study showed that often the first autism symptoms actually preceded the vaccination shots, and therefore could not have been caused by them.

    The misunderstanding is made worse by high-profile, non-scientific claims by activists linking vaccines to autism (model and actress Jenny McCarthy, for example, appeared on "Larry King Live" earlier this year accusing medical doctors of ignorance of the facts and hiding evidence). This issue shows why public health policy must be guided by science instead of celebrity — or even personal experience. Benjamin Radford is managing editor of the Skeptical Inquirer science magazine. He wrote about the media and pop culture in his book" Media Mythmakers: How Journalists, Activists, and Advertisers Mislead Us." His books, films, and other projects can be found on his website.



    Autism and Vaccines: Why Bad Logic Trumps Science | LiveScience

  2. #2
    Elite Member Folieadeux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    3,232

    Default

    I know a woman who swears black and blue MMR caused her son's autism. She just won't listen to what anyone else has to say. I think it's very sad her son has autism, but what I find sadder is that she needs something to blame, because I think deep down she blames herself.
    ssabmud

  3. #3
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    42,527

    Default

    We have measles and whooping cough her-thanks to this idiotic thinking! Wait until someone loses a healthy child to MEASLES!
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  4. #4
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CCkissesx View Post
    I know a woman who swears black and blue MMR caused her son's autism. She just won't listen to what anyone else has to say. I think it's very sad her son has autism, but what I find sadder is that she needs something to blame, because I think deep down she blames herself.
    I see both sides as my child has autism. I do not think there is one cause or answer. I think a child must be genetically inclined first of all. I think that our environment may play a role as well. My child does have abnormally high levels of metals in his body-lead,arsenic, aluminum, etc... How did they get there? I don't know. The vaccines may compromise an already faulty immune system. They are finding that autism is more of a biological condition than a psychological. I did choose to vaccinate my daughter after having a child with autism. I made sure that the vaccines were mercury free. When you first get the diagnosis, you are mad as hell and yes, you do want someone to blame. It is a journey. The most angry are usually those with young children such as Jenny McCarthy. When you get to the point I am at with an autistic teen, the why or how doesn't matter as much anymore. I am still amazed that on this very board that nigger and faggot are unacceptable terms but retard is ok. That is where my fight is...to make a place for my son in a world that dismisses the disabled. As far as the medical community covering up vaccination damage, I am so jaded at this point to not doubt it. Drug companies donated more to Bush's campaign than anyone else. You cannot sue a drug company for vaccination damage because of a clause that was added at the midnight hour to the Patriot Act that prevents lawsuits.

  5. #5
    A*O
    A*O is offline
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! A*O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Being Paula
    Posts
    30,395

    Default

    I don't think my daughter's Aspergers was caused by the MMR vaccine. In her case there's a strong genetic link on her father's side of the family. Autism and genetics haven't been proven yet either but I'm pretty sure it will be when they identify the relevant genes.

    However, I have a friend who is 100% certain her son's quite severe autism was caused by the MMR vaccine. He was a perfectly normal baby who met all the usual developmental milestones. He reacted quite badly to his MMR shot with flu-like symptoms and general lethargy. He somehow lost his 'spark' and from that time onwards his development slowed right down and his behaviour changed quite noticeably. His autism was formally diagnosed a couple of years later.

    The problem is that the MMR shots are given around the same time autism can be identified and diagnosed so it's natural for parents looking for answers why their child is autistic cling to that connection. I don't know if there's a causal link or not, but I've heard enough anecdotal evidence to wonder...

    But that does not mean you don't vaccinate your child! Autism isn't fatal - measles can be both to your child AND the unvaccinated kids he/she infects.
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
    Dame Edna Everage

    Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

  6. #6
    Silver Member missjuicy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    jersey
    Posts
    672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ya-ya_sister View Post
    I think a child must be genetically inclined first of all.
    I AGREE , IF U CALCULATE HOW MANY CHILDREN ARE VACCINATED THERES STILL A VERY VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE OF CHILDREN WHO ARE NOT AUTISTIC. MAYBE YOU DO HAVE TO BE SOMEHOW INCLINED TO IT. MY SISTER, AS STATED IN OTHER POSTS, HAS ASPERGERS. SHE NOR MY PARENTS EVER BLAMED THE VACCINES, THEY DO HOWEVER BELIEVE IT WAS DURING HER BIRTH. SHE WAS ACTUALLY BORN AT HOME IN A SCARY SITUATION WHERE MY MOM FELT FINE THEN HAD PAINS WITHIN MINUTES OF LAYING DOWN TO GO TO BED AND SHE HAD HER ON THE FLOOR ABOUT 10 MIN AFTER THAT. MY FATHER AND UNCLE WERE THERE, BOTH ARE NOT DOCTORS BUT THEY BELIEVED SHE MAY HAVE LOST OXYGEN TO HER BRAIN DURING HER BIRTH. MY MOM OFTEN BLAMED HERSELF ALTHOUGH SHE SAID IT HAPPENED SO FAST AND THERE WAS NO OTHER OPTION. SHE NEVER WANTED TO HAVE OTHER KIDS BC SHE FELT SO GUILTY.

    I RECEIVED THE SAME VACCINATIONS AS MY SISTER ABOUT 5 YEARS AFTER SHE RECEIVED THEM AND I DO NOT HAVE ANY AUTISMS. WAS MY SISTER MORE INCLINED? WAS MY SISTER BORN AUTISTIC? WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT IF SHE WAS BORN NORMALLY IN A HOSPITAL AND NOT AT HOME? I DONT KNOW. TO ME, I DONT BELIEVE VACCINATIONS PLAY A BIG ROLE, IF ANY AT ALL.

  7. #7
    A*O
    A*O is offline
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! A*O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Being Paula
    Posts
    30,395

    Default

    Your sister was almost certainly born autistic[It's OK, you can undo the CapLock now darl]
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
    Dame Edna Everage

    Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

  8. #8
    Silver Member missjuicy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    jersey
    Posts
    672

    Default

    its early, i hit it by mistake lol

  9. #9
    Silver Member missjuicy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    jersey
    Posts
    672

    Default

    how old is ur daughter A*O?

  10. #10
    A*O
    A*O is offline
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! A*O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Being Paula
    Posts
    30,395

    Default

    She just turned 18 and she's doing OK thanks! It's been a long journey and it's not over yet but her future looks bright and productive. She's lucky that her autism/Aspergers is very much at the "mild" end of the spectrum. She still has challenges but overall she's come a long, long way and I am confident she can make it.
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
    Dame Edna Everage

    Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

  11. #11
    Silver Member missjuicy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    jersey
    Posts
    672

    Default

    she def can. my sister is 26 and she goes to a community college and has a full time job. shes very smart and motivated. her only set backs are she cant drive,which bothers her, and she is having some trouble finding a bf, but who isnt. she also came a very long way too but she never gave up or gave in and shes setting herself up for independent sucess.

  12. #12
    A*O
    A*O is offline
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! A*O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Being Paula
    Posts
    30,395

    Default

    Yeah - social life is always tricky for AS/autistic people. Smart as but totally clueless when it comes to making and keeping friends. The good news is that they they don't actually care much that they don't have a Blackberry full of contacts.
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
    Dame Edna Everage

    Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

  13. #13
    Silver Member missjuicy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    jersey
    Posts
    672

    Default

    hahaah this is true. its very hard for her to meet new ppl. shes joined alot of social networks but i think sometimes ppl dont understand her and it takes awhile for them to warm up to each other, u kno. she gets upset bc she sees me going out and she feels shes "abnormal" bc she doesnt do the same. i wish there were more AS support groups closer to us. she is a master at public transportation and could def travel to one, but none have any ppl with similar issues so theyre not worth it.

  14. #14
    Hit By Ban Bus! Lily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere.
    Posts
    9,439

    Default

    There is less aluminum and other metals in vaccines than there is in your drinking water. They have done study after study after study and vaccines are not to blame. Now children are suffering from measles, mumps, rubella, because parents are too ignorant to see that vaccines aren't the villain here.

    I've heard too many parents say "I don't care what the studies say, I just don't believe it"----that's pure ignorance. And it's not going to help us find the cause and a cure.

  15. #15
    czb
    czb is offline
    Elite Member czb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    left coast
    Posts
    13,444

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily View Post
    There is less aluminum and other metals in vaccines than there is in your drinking water. They have done study after study after study and vaccines are not to blame. Now children are suffering from measles, mumps, rubella, because parents are too ignorant to see that vaccines aren't the villain here.

    I've heard too many parents say "I don't care what the studies say, I just don't believe it"----that's pure ignorance. And it's not going to help us find the cause and a cure.
    ITA. and some parents have the attitude that it is their right to not vaccinate their kids, that it's nobody's business. but in reality it's everybody's business, you need a large proportion of kids being vaccinated in order for the vaccinations to work. so even if you get your kid vaccinated, they could still be at risk.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Amanda Peet: Pro vaccines for children
    By mrs.v in forum Latest Gossip
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: July 17th, 2008, 11:59 AM
  2. Replies: 13
    Last Post: December 13th, 2007, 10:12 AM
  3. New CDC report: about 1 in 150 have autism
    By AliceInWonderland in forum News
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: February 9th, 2007, 02:53 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •