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Thread: Canada adds America to list of countries that torture

  1. #1
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Exclamation Canada adds America to list of countries that torture

    In Canada, the United States has joined a notorious group of countries -- Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Afghanistan and China, among others -- as a place where foreigners risk torture and abuse, according to a training manual for Canadian diplomats that was accidentally given this week to Amnesty International lawyers.

    The manual is intended to create "greater awareness among consular officials to the possibility of Canadians detained abroad being tortured." Part of the workshop is devoted to teaching diplomats how to identify people who have been tortured. It features a section on "U.S. interrogation techniques," including forced nudity, hooding and isolation.

    The 93-page PowerPoint document was inadvertently released to attorneys working on a lawsuit against the Canadian government; it was obtained by The Washington Post from an attorney for defendants at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The case of Omar Khadr, a Canadian citizen who has been held at the U.S. military prison for more than five years, has generated attention across Canada.

    The U.S. ambassador to Canada protested the mention, and the leak appears to have embarrassed Canadian officials.

    "The document is a training manual. It is not a policy document or a statement of policy. As such it does not convey the government's views or positions," said Marina Wilson, spokeswoman for the Department of Foreign Affairs in Ottawa.

    AMERICAblog: A great nation deserves the truth
    Well hey, at least you're "safe".
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Well, Canada has added America to their shit list. What's next? The French calling us names.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    America and france already call each other names
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Yeah, but in America we don't care, though. France is like the snotty little sister that will always beg us to save her.

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    Saying that America is even as remotely barbaric as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Afghanistan and (to a lesser degree) China, is a little fucking ridiculous. Not to mention it trivializes the true suffering of the citizens/visitors of/to those countries at the hands of their respective gov'ts.

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    Gold Member memebot's Avatar
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    What about the true suffering of people like Khadr or those at Guatanamo Bay? Is their suffering trivial?

    I don't think the manual is saying that Americans are "barbaric". It is saying that Americans torture people. A barbaric practice to be sure, but how is one country's practice of torture better or worse than another?

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    Silver Member sue_trask's Avatar
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    most of the ppl at guatanamo bay did something to get there. so i guess it was okay for ppl who want to hurt americans. but i think its alot different from what we do to what iran does considering they kill gays for example.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Actually most of the people in GITMO have never been charged with anything, have no access to legel counsel, cannot challenge their captors even IF they are charged with anything and can be held (and tortured) till the end of time.

    So far, something like 1% have been found guilty of minor offenses and the rest released 5 years after they were abducted because they found no evidence of them having done anything.

    How the fuck is THAT fair?

    If foreign countries detained Americans like that, there would be a shitstorm.. but hey, these people are just brown third worlders.. not actually people...

    Go look up Maher Arar. Reading is good.
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    Elite Member Aella's Avatar
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    Torture is torture. It's not about equating human rights violations to those of say, Iran. It's simply a statement of fact that the US use it, and no excuses or dressing it up in words like 'waterboarding' make it any less true.
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    Elite Member moomies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Well, Canada has added America to their shit list. What's next? The French calling us names.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    America and france already call each other names

    I was flipping the channel last night and caught a min or two of the game show Drew Carrey is hosting. 1-100 or something its called?

    One of the questions was what percentage of Americans answered yes to "Would you rather be French and rich than to be American and poor?" I think it was something around 40%??? That was an interesting question though. I wonder what the results would be if it were asked in France.

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    La vie en rose DitaPage*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aella View Post
    Torture is torture. It's not about equating human rights violations to those of say, Iran. It's simply a statement of fact that the US use it, and no excuses or dressing it up in words like 'waterboarding' make it any less true.
    Great response, very true.
    It's like saying 'We're both killers; but I shoot people, and you behead them. So I'm the more humane one.'

    They're all as bad as each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post

    If foreign countries detained Americans like that, there would be a shitstorm..
    If?

    So Americans vacationing in Asia or the Middle East and having drugs planted on them and being falsely imprisoned for life (or sentenced to death) for drug smuggling is the stuff of movies? I mean, that would never happen, right?

    I don't think torturing foreigners in any homeland is cool, but I think the batting average of, say China, for tortured/detained Americans would far exceed the reverse, and if you were to look at numbers, it wouldn't even be the same ballpark. Ugh, my baseball analogies suck, but what I'm trying to say is that a traveler to this country would have less of a chance of being detained/tortured than an American would be when in Iran/Thailand/Fuckistan/whatever.

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    Silver Member sue_trask's Avatar
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    i think usa is less lucky too detain a person when you are here, vs. the other countries. there can be list of things that other countries didnt to americans while they are there. but i wont go on and on about it.

    one person was torture but you know what? after they got the info from him, it save thousand of lifes (or more) and hes still alive (the person who gave the info i mean).

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    Elite Member twitchy's Avatar
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    The government are a bunch of pansies.

    Canada removes U.S., Israel from torture watchlist

    By David Ljunggren Sat Jan 19, 2:04 PM ET

    OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada's foreign ministry, responding to pressure from close allies, said on Saturday it would remove the United States and Israel from a watch list of countries where prisoners risk being tortured.

    Both nations expressed unhappiness after it emerged they had been listed in a document that formed part of a training course manual on torture awareness given to Canadian diplomats.

    Foreign Minister Maxime Bernier said he regretted the embarrassment caused by the public disclosure of the manual, which also classified some U.S. interrogation techniques as torture.

    "It contains a list that wrongly includes some of our closest allies. I have directed that the manual be reviewed and rewritten," Bernier said in a statement.

    "The manual is neither a policy document nor a statement of policy. As such, it does not convey the government's views or positions."

    The document -- made available to Reuters and other media outlets -- embarrassed the minority Conservative government, which is a staunch ally of both the United States and Israel.

    U.S. ambassador David Wilkins said the listing was absurd, while the Israeli envoy said he wanted his country removed.

    Asked why the two countries had been put on the list, a spokesman for Bernier said: "The training manual purposely raised public issues to stimulate discussion and debate in the classroom."

    The government mistakenly gave the document to Amnesty International as part of a court case the rights organization has launched against Ottawa over the treatment of detainees in Afghanistan.

    AMPLE EVIDENCE OF ABUSE

    Amnesty International Canada, which says it has ample evidence that prisoners are abused both in U.S. and Israeli jails, said it was disappointed by Bernier's announcement.

    "When it comes to an issue like torture, the government's main concern should not be embarrassing allies," Alex Neve, the group's secretary-general, told Reuters. The U.S. embassy did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    Under "definition of torture," the document lists U.S. interrogation techniques such as forced nudity, isolation, sleep deprivation and blindfolding prisoners.

    It also mentions the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, where a Canadian man is being held.

    The man, Omar Khadr, has been in Guantanamo Bay for five years. He is accused of killing a U.S. soldier during a clash in Afghanistan in 2002, when he was 15.

    Other countries on the watch list include Syria, China, Iran, Afghanistan, Mexico and Saudi Arabia.

    The foreign ministry launched the torture awareness course after Ottawa was criticized for the way it handled the case of Canadian engineer Maher Arar, who was deported from the United States to Syria in 2002.

    Arar says he was tortured repeatedly during the year he spent in Damascus prisons. An official inquiry into the affair showed Canadian diplomats had not been trained to detect whether detainees might have been abused.
    Canada removes U.S., Israel from torture watchlist - Yahoo! News

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    It was bound to happen. The US is by FAR Canada's biggest trading partner. There is so much linked between our two nations. Canada couldn't risk worsening diplomatic relations with the US.

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