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Thread: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    CANADIAN PRESS


    Ontario families will no longer be able to turn to a religious tribunal to settle disputes such as divorce and child custody cases under new legislation introduced today by Attorney General Michael Bryant.
    When it comes to family law arbitrations in this province, there is only one law for Ontario Canadian law, Bryant told the legislature to cheers from his Liberal colleagues.

    The legislation is the first time the government has officially acknowledged Premier Dalton McGuintys surprise statement to The Canadian Press last September that he would stop all religious arbitrations from having the force of law in Ontario.

    McGuinty upset several religious organizations by announcing in an interview that he would reject a recommendation to regulate a centuries old set of Muslim religious rules known as Shariah by prohibiting all faith-based arbitrations.

    McGuinty wasnt in the legislature today when Bryant introduced the legislation, which the attorney general said would ensure all family law arbitrations are conducted exclusively under Ontario and Canadian law.

    People still would be free to seek a resolution of family disputes from religious leaders, but Bryant said it would amount to advice only and would not be enforceable by the courts.

    If its an Ontario-based family arbitration, and somebody is not happy with the result, they can appeal it to the courts, he said.

    If its not an Ontario-based agreement, that amounts to advice, then its totally unenforceable.

    Some Jewish and Muslim groups have vowed to fight to keep the faith-based tribunals, and complained they had no input before McGuintys surprise announcement last September.

    But others, including the Muslim Canadian Congress, welcomed the legislation today.

    Were relieved that the McGuinty government did not succumb to the pressures of religious clerics who were trying to turn back the clock and use the judicial system to enforce their waning authority over vulnerable communities, congress spokesman Tarek Fatah said in a release. Let us keep rabbis, imams and bishops out of Canadas judicial system.

    Amanda Dale of the YWCA said her organization was worried that universal access to basic rights would be jeopardized by having Shariah law and other faith-based arbitrations in Ontario.

    Were happy to have people make consultations with their faith communities, she said. But to have those be legally binding does confuse the role of the state and the role of a religious leader.

    There were protests in several cities across Canada and Europe last summer warning McGuinty not to regulate Shariah law in Ontario because of what the critics claimed was its inherent bias against women.

    Opposition critic Bob Runciman said today that the Tories supported the general intent of the legislation, but accused McGuinty of ducking its introduction because of the international controversy stirred up during Ontarios debate over Shariah.

    Premier McGuinty has to share responsibility for this fiasco, Runciman said. The question should have been resolved in a timely manner, not letting people twist in the wind and deepen societal divisions.

    The Conservatives called for public hearings on the changes to the Arbitration Act, and said religious groups that were not consulted by the government deserve to be heard on the issue.

    The New Democrats said the government should have completely banned religious tribunals or any other form of arbitration for settling family disputes, even if they use Ontario and Canadian laws.

    The government should invoke the existing provisions of the Arbitration Act to exclude, exempt family matters from arbitration, NDP justice critic Peter Kormos told the legislature.

    The attorney general and this government have made a bad situation worse.

    The bill also authorizes the province to regulate family law arbitrators for the first time, and sets out the training and other requirements they must meet.

    The changes also remove the ability of people who agree to family arbitration to waive their right to appeal, so anyone not satisfied after arbitration can ask an Ontario court for a review.
    Fuckin right. One law system for ALL people, not seperate nonsense for every special interest out there.

    Good for the Premier in banning all of it.
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    Elite Member Luna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    This is good. Maybe the U.S. will follow? Ya right!

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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    Some Jewish and Muslim groups have vowed to fight to keep the faith-based tribunals, and complained they had no input before McGuintys surprise announcement last September.

    But others, including the Muslim Canadian Congress, welcomed the legislation today.

    Were relieved that the McGuinty government did not succumb to the pressures of religious clerics who were trying to turn back the clock and use the judicial system to enforce their waning authority over vulnerable communities, congress spokesman Tarek Fatah said in a release. Let us keep rabbis, imams and bishops out of Canadas judicial system."
    WTF? I am all for religous freedoms and all that jazz.... BUT once you to come to Canada, our laws apply! We bend over backwards to be senstive, but bullshit to allowing religous groups to decide legal matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Fuckin right. One law system for ALL people, not seperate nonsense for every special interest out there. Good for the Premier in banning all of it.
    Yeah... what Grim said!
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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    YAY ONTARIO!!!!!

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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    There were protests in several cities across Canada and Europe last summer warning McGuinty not to regulate Shariah law in Ontario because of what the critics claimed was its inherent bias against women.
    Um, check out chapter 4 of the Qu'ran if you don't believe that.
    "Men are in charge of women." I could tell you stories from
    my Man in Jakarta about how Indo men, the vast majority of whom
    are Mus
    lims, treat women like doormats.

    And there were some people in Ontario who were recommending
    Shariah tribunals to resolve family matters, in an effort to be
    nice to other cultures....
    Last edited by ourmaninBusan; November 17th, 2005 at 10:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    wtf...........................................Shar iah? I remember seeing this on TV. some of it was brutal. probably dramatized for television, but still.

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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninBusan View Post
    Um, check out chapter 4 of the Qu'ran if you don't believe that.
    "Men are in charge of women." I could tell you stories from
    my Man in Jakarta about how Indo men, the vast majority of whom
    are Mus
    lims, treat women like doormats.

    And there were some people in Ontario who were recommending
    Shariah tribunals to resolve family matters, in an effort to be
    nice to other cultures....
    That text you are referring to in the Qur'an..I just want to tell you that a lot of Islamic scholars out there have put in words to change the meaning of some verses in the translations and interpretations of the Qur'an. That passage can be interpretated in quite different ways in whichever interpretation and translation you take it from. In Judaism and even in the Bible,there is also references to where it says that a husband should rule and dominate his wife and that he can be her master. I see it no different than the passages from the Bible or the Torah.

    Women are treated inferior in a lot of places in the Eastern hemisphere and other communities around the world no matter what religion they are. It is embedded more from societal practice and culture rather than religious doctrines.

    Think of the middle ages where there was no seperation between the church and state and the Catholic Church would use the Bible as a justification to make women subordinate to men.

    I am Muslim and from my interpretations of the Qur'an, it gives equality to men amd women in MOST of the passages I have read. My father is also a Muslim man and he treats my mother like the Queen that she is and both of them EQUALLY manage our family and household.

    I just wanted to clarify that.

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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    Oh yeah, and the Shariah these Middle Eastern and Muslim communities impose on society do not stick fully to the Qur'an and some are even exagerrated and deviated from the actual laws of the Qur'an.

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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazeleyed_Honey View Post
    I am Muslim and from my interpretations of the Qur'an, it gives equality to men and women in MOST of the passages I have read. My father is also a Muslim man and he treats my mother like the Queen that she is and both of them EQUALLY manage our family and household.

    I just wanted to clarify that.
    I love to see affirmation that not all Muslim men are fanatical nutjobs!

    You sound like you have great parents
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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazeleyed_Honey View Post
    That text you are referring to in the Qur'an..I just want to tell you that a lot of Islamic scholars out there have put in words to change the meaning of some verses in the translations and interpretations of the Qur'an. That passage can be interpretated in quite different ways in whichever interpretation and translation you take it from. In Judaism and even in the Bible,there is also references to where it says that a husband should rule and dominate his wife and that he can be her master. I see it no different than the passages from the Bible or the Torah.

    Women are treated inferior in a lot of places in the Eastern hemisphere and other communities around the world no matter what religion they are. It is embedded more from societal practice and culture rather than religious doctrines.

    Think of the middle ages where there was no seperation between the church and state and the Catholic Church would use the Bible as a justification to make women subordinate to men.

    I am Muslim and from my interpretations of the Qur'an, it gives equality to men amd women in MOST of the passages I have read. My father is also a Muslim man and he treats my mother like the Queen that she is and both of them EQUALLY manage our family and household.

    I just wanted to clarify that.

    Great post!

    Though I'm not muslim, I do understand that groups like Al-Qaidea and those in Saudi Arabia twist what the Qur'an says to only benefit themselves and not their relgion as a whole. It's kinda of like the same way when Pat Robertson and other nutjobs use God to be ignorant against gays and Democrats, they use relgion for the wrong things.

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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    Were happy to have people make consultations with their faith communities, she said. But to have those be legally binding does confuse the role of the state and the role of a religious leader.
    Does this apply to politicians as well or are they welcome to continue using their faith to make decisions for the "good" of their constituents?

    There was one politician representing my area who went to the HOC fighting for his "moral beliefs" stating he was doing so because his community asked him to. Myself and my neighbours don't recall being asked what we wanted (which was the opposite of what he was fighting for).

    If there's supposed to be separation of church & state why isn't it enforced with everyone and not just when it works best for the state?

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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    It SHOULD be enforced. A politician's religious views should NOT enter into his or her decision making process whatso-fucking-ever.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazeleyed_Honey View Post
    That text you are referring to in the Qur'an..I just want to tell you that a lot of Islamic scholars out there have put in words to change the meaning of some verses in the translations and interpretations of the Qur'an. That passage can be interpretated in quite different ways ...

    Women are treated inferior in a lot of places in the Eastern hemisphere and other communities around the world no matter what religion they are....

    I am Muslim and from my interpretations of the Qur'an, it gives equality to men amd women in MOST of the passages I have read. My father is also a Muslim man and he treats my mother like the Queen that she is and both of them EQUALLY manage our family and household.
    I just wanted to clarify that.
    I appreciate the input, but unfortunately my first-hand experience
    has been rigidly "unenlightened," and it primarily involves Indonesia
    and Saudi Arabia.

    Indonesian women go to Saudi Arabia to become maids and routinely
    find themselves raped by their employers and their sons, and if they
    complain, the Saudi police treat it as adultery, which is punishable
    by lashes with a whip.

    Secondly, Our Man in Jakarta (a longtime Canadian friend living in
    Kebong Kacang) ran a small business and employed two
    young women as maids. One had to quit because her cousin wanted
    to marry her; and after he made her pregnant, three weeks later,
    he divorced her. She came back to Our Man, begging for money.
    The other was told by her father to leave her paying job and work
    on the family farm for free.

    I'm glad you come from a household that doesn't follow that passage
    of the Qu'ran to the letter, but we in the West are not afraid of
    moderates like yourselves; we are afraid of fanatics, because all
    too often, they are the ones making waves and trying to change society.

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    Default Re: Province of Ontario (Canada) bans faith-based dispute resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninBusan View Post
    I appreciate the input, but unfortunately my first-hand experience
    has been rigidly "unenlightened," and it primarily involves Indonesia
    and Saudi Arabia.

    Indonesian women go to Saudi Arabia to become maids and routinely
    find themselves raped by their employers and their sons, and if they
    complain, the Saudi police treat it as adultery, which is punishable
    by lashes with a whip.
    Saudi Arabia's society treat women like crap. I hate that kingdom and those assholes that deserve to go to hell for doing things like this. I was born in Kuwait...and yes,unfortunately this stuff happens. A lot of Sri Lankan, Indian, Filipina women which make up of most being the maids over there also sometimes get abused brutally by these the household they work for.

    Secondly, Our Man in Jakarta (a longtime Canadian friend living in
    Kebong Kacang) ran a small business and employed two
    young women as maids. One had to quit because her cousin wanted
    to marry her; and after he made her pregnant, three weeks later,
    he divorced her. She came back to Our Man, begging for money.
    The other was told by her father to leave her paying job and work
    on the family farm for free.

    I'm glad you come from a household that doesn't follow that passage
    of the Qu'ran to the letter, but we in the West are not afraid of
    moderates like yourselves; we are afraid of fanatics, because all
    too often, they are the ones making waves and trying to change society.
    Yes, it is unfortunate women are seen as subordinate in some Middle Eastern, South Asian and East Asian communities. Actually, before even Islamic fundamentalism re-emerged in the early 80s, these societies were STILL like this. Even if they did not abide by the Qur'an and were not Muslims they would still be like this. They just distort Islam to justify their sickening intentions when infact the Qur'an advocates to treat the woman with the respect and equality she derserves.

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