Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 37

Thread: Do we want socialized medicine?

  1. #1
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Jose, California, United States
    Posts
    2,895

    Default Do we want socialized medicine?

    Opinion Editorial by Walter Williams - Feb 14, 2007
    Problems with our health care system are leading some to fall prey to proposals calling for a nationalized single-payer health care system like Canada’s or Britain’s. There are a few things that we might take into consideration before falling for these proposals.
    London’s Observer (3/3/02) carried a story saying that an “unpublished report shows some patients are now having to wait more than eight months for treatment, during which time many of their cancers become incurable.”
    Another story said, “According to a World Health Organisation report to be published later this year, around 10,000 British people die unnecessarily from cancer each year — three times as many as are killed on our roads.”
    The Observer (12/16/01) also reported, “A recent academic study showed National Health Service delays in bowel cancer treatment were so great that, in one in five cases, cancer which was curable at the time of diagnosis had become incurable by the time of treatment.”
    The story is no better in Canada’s national health care system. The Vancouver, British Columbia-based Fraser Institute has a yearly publication titled, “Waiting Your Turn.” Its 2006 edition gives waiting times, by treatments, from a person’s referral by a general practitioner to treatment by a specialist.
    The shortest waiting time was for oncology (4.9 weeks). The longest waiting time was for orthopedic surgery (40.3 weeks), followed by plastic surgery (35.4 weeks), and neurosurgery (31.7 weeks).
    Canadians face significant waiting times for various diagnostics such as computed tomography (CT), magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), and ultrasound scans. The median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.3 weeks, but in Prince Edward Island, it’s 9 weeks.
    A Canadian’s median wait for an MRI was 10.3 weeks, but in Newfoundland, patients waited 28 weeks. Finally, the median wait for an ultrasound was 3.8 weeks across Canada, but in Manitoba and Prince Edward Island it was 8 weeks.

    Despite the long waiting times Canadians suffer, sometimes resulting in death, under federal law, private clinics are not legally allowed to provide services covered by the Canada Health Act. Regardless of this prohibition, a few black-market clinics service patients who are willing to break the law to get treatment.
    In British Columbia, for example, Bill 82 provides that a physician can be fined up to $20,000 for accepting fees for surgery. According to a Canada News article, “Shortage of Doctors and Nurses Could Hurt Medicare Reforms” (3/5/03), about 10,000 doctors left Canada during the 1990s.
    There’s help for some Canadian patients. According to a Canadian Medical Association Journal article, “U.S. Hospitals Use Waiting-List Woes to Woo Canadians” (2/22/2000), “British Columbia patients fed up with sojourns on waiting lists as they await tests or treatment are being wooed by a hospital in Washington state that has begun offering package deals. A second U.S. hospital is also considering marketing its services.”
    One of the attractions is that an MRI, which can take anywhere from 10 to 28 weeks in Canada, can be had in two days at Olympic Memorial Hospital in Port Angeles, Wash. Already, Cleveland is Canada’s hip-replacement center.
    Some of our politicians hold up the Canadian and British nationalized health care systems as models for us. You can bet that should we ever have such a system, they would exempt themselves from what the rest of us would ha
    .ve to endure.
    There’s a cure for our health care problems. That cure is not to demand more government but less government. I challenge anyone to identify a problem with health care in America that is not caused or aggravated by federal, state, and local governments. And, I challenge anyone to show me people dying on the streets because they don’t have health insurance.
    Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. He has authored more than 150 publications, including many in scholarly journals, and has frequently given expert testimony before Congressional committees on public policy issues ranging from labor policy to taxation and spending.
    Do We Want Socialized Medicine? - Ayn Rand Admirers at The Atlasphere

  2. #2
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    Depending on what you need out system can suck.. I've never heard of anybody waiting 8 weeks for a fucking MRI, mostly everyone that I know has had it done within a week.

    Secondly, again, the nordic countries (with socialized medicine) are much better because:

    1) they offer their docs more money, thus they stem brain drain

    2) they fund the system adequately.

    Canada has tried to get away with universal healthcare on the cheap for the last 20 years, and have finally clued in it cant be donel. Thankfully reforms are underway.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #3
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Jose, California, United States
    Posts
    2,895

    Default

    Yeah, I agree that there needs to be some sychroncity with healthcare and govn't. Though, his argument is that, as soon as the govn't gets ahold of such power is:
    You can bet that should we ever have such a system, they would exempt themselves from what the rest of us would ha
    .ve to endure.
    There’s a cure for our health care problems. That cure is not to demand more government but less government.


    I mean, one can only have so much "individualism"! Basically, he argues that as soon as it become "collective", it is corrupted.

  4. #4
    Elite Member lalala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,829

    Default

    It's funny that when healthcare systems are discussed in the US, the Canadian an British systems are the only one considered - You should know that the British system is an oddity in Europe where every other country has universal healthcare with absolutely no waiting list

  5. #5
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Jose, California, United States
    Posts
    2,895

    Default

    I don't know why these countries are mainly the only ones mentioned from a US perspective, maybe b/c they are mainly English-speaking?

  6. #6
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    Well, that's the position of this guy anytime he writes anything.

    He still sees evil communists under his bed.

    I'd rather have health care that I have to wait for than health care i couldn't afford no matter what.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #7
    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sleepy night night land
    Posts
    22,890

    Default

    Most of the people I know without healthcare agree with you Grimm...they would rather wait for an appointment than to not be able to get one at all. I have a friend who cannot get coverage because he has his own company and a pre-existing conditionion. All six of the doctors that he has been referred to have refused him as a cash patient (doctor's right) even though he said he would pay them cash dollars up front for all lab testing and appointments. Trust me, he would gladly wait.

  8. #8
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    If I was up your ass you'd know where I am!
    Posts
    7,751

    Default

    I'm pretty okay with my healthcare I get through my job. I know that many people who work don't have jobs that offer that. I think working people (excluding the bona fide disabled) should be taken care of if they pay into it. However, I've known plenty of deadbeat losers in my time and I resent the hell out of the attitude that they should get what I get after working my ass off and that includes medical care, food, and housing.

  9. #9
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Jose, California, United States
    Posts
    2,895

    Default

    Viewpoints vary from culture to culture, for some reason. I don't quite understand why.

  10. #10
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Northwest MS/Memphis TN
    Posts
    25,535

    Default

    Do we want it? Maybe. I don't think we should throw out the idea entirely and assume it can't be done just because of flaws in the systems of the countries you mentioned. If you look at the big picture, the U.S. is pathetically far down on the list when it comes to things like infant mortality for example.
    My Posts Have Won Awards. Can Any Of You Claim The Same? -ur_next_ex

    "I don't have pet peeves. I have major psychotic fucking hatreds, okay". ~George Carlin

  11. #11
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Jose, California, United States
    Posts
    2,895

    Default

    the US doesn't use collective policies for some reason, at least in the same way that other countries do.

    Personally, i don't know about other americans, but i don't know many right now that would want to be "grouped" together in such a way. this country just wasn't established like that.

  12. #12
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Northwest MS/Memphis TN
    Posts
    25,535

    Default

    As someone for whom adequate healthcare is not an issue it might be easy for me to not think about this if I didn't know people personally who owed their lives to socialized medicine.

    I think the people who would benefit most from socialized medicine are last on the list of considerations for many of those against the idea of socialized medicine.
    My Posts Have Won Awards. Can Any Of You Claim The Same? -ur_next_ex

    "I don't have pet peeves. I have major psychotic fucking hatreds, okay". ~George Carlin

  13. #13
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Jose, California, United States
    Posts
    2,895

    Default

    It just seems like something that should have been discussed ealier on in this country's development. Don't you think? Because now, if you disagree with it, you are considered being racist or something? If I say, for example, I'm not Hispanic, therefore, I don't want collective policies with that group, then I am being racist. It's just too late for this kind of discussion in this country, unless foreign polices dramactically change overall.

  14. #14
    Hit By Ban Bus! ediebrooks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    In another dimension, untouched by time
    Posts
    6,830

    Default

    It's never too late to discuss anything. We need universal health care because too many people are falling through the cracks. As a nation, we've always trumpeted our commitment to freedom and equality, but do we have a right to brag when so many either have inadequate insurance coverage or none at all?

    Not all people who lack insurance are "deadbeat losers". A physician wrote an excellent editorial in our local newspaper about some of the people he treats who lack insurance. One 60-year-old patient of his had been laid off 10 years ago from a textile mill. She was unable to find a comparable job, and then her health went downhill. She was too poor to afford private insurance, yet not poor enough to qualify Medicaid. She's now thousands of dollars in debt because of emergency surgery to remove a tumor in her colon. "I guess I'll be paying for this for the rest of my life", she says.

    It would probably be more cost-efficient for hospitals and other health care providers if we had "socialized medicine". More importantly, providing accessible health care for all is The Right Thing to do.

  15. #15
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    Ok, this makes no sense.

    You're already grouped together as Americans.

    You have an American armed forces.

    You have an American government.

    You have a flag that represents you all.

    You celebrate national holidays

    You have a national identity

    How in the name of hell would universal healthcare group you anymore than you already are, and even if it did, how in the hell would that negatively impact anybody?

    "not wanting to be grouped together" is, by and large, nonsensical as an argument.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 23
    Last Post: September 1st, 2006, 10:56 AM
  2. Laughter really is the best medicine.
    By buttmunch in forum News
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: April 4th, 2006, 03:44 AM
  3. Kylie Minogue wants to study medicine
    By MaryJane in forum Gossip Archive
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: February 19th, 2006, 03:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •