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Thread: The Migrant/Refugee Crisis In Europe

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    A*O
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    Default The Migrant/Refugee Crisis In Europe

    I'm starting a new thread because this problem is escalating rapidly and frankly I don't believe any European Govts have the slightest idea how to respond to it. Those of us who don't live in Europe may not see or read about it in news reports but that doesn't make it any less real or serious.

    From one of many reports....

    Hundreds of migrants poured overnight onto the high-speed railway linking Paris with London near the French port of Calais, stranding passengers in darkness aboard Eurostar trains....

    Outside a Budapest train station, an angry crowd camped out demanding to board trains for Germany, as Europe’s asylum system crumbled under the strain of the influx....


    Three Eurostar trains were blocked overnight and eventually continued to London early on Wednesday, while two returned to their departure stations.

    Passengers on one London-bound train, which stopped less than a mile from the tunnel, were told at one point to keep quiet and listen for people on the roof…



    About 3000 to 4000 migrants from the Middle East, Asia and Africa camp near Calais, dodging police as they try to board trains and trucks heading to Britain through the tunnel or on ferries. They have disrupted passenger and freight transport between Britain and France throughout the summer.
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    Elite Member nwgirl's Avatar
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    I just saw a picture today on another site with people in a train station with water and food for people coming in on the trains. I don't think I've heard anything about this other than that pic and what you just posted. Off to Google.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I'm reading that part of the problem is an illegal migrant trafficking organization that is transporting huge numbers of people and dumping them everywhere.

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    Yes, people smugglers are organised and ruthless. People pay them thousands of dollars to be crammed into leaky boats and more or less abandoned to their fate after that. Navies, coast guards, civilian vessels rescue those they come across but there have been possibly thousands of drownings - it's impossible to know for sure. There's a pic I won't show here of a drowned toddler washed up on a Turkish beach. He's one of MANY.

    Those who do make it safely ashore then move northwards through Italy, Geece and Hungary towards Northern Europe where they believe they will find work and welfare. That may be true for those with skills or professions but for the rest it most certainly isn't the land of milk and honey they hope for.

    If this great migration was being managed correctly there might be a chance if could be done humanely and efficiently but the sheer weight of numbers (800,000 so far this year in Germany alone) makes it overwhelming.
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    Greece is completely overwhelmed. In some of our smaller islands the refugees outnumber locals. We can't feed or take care of these people, locals are doing their best but we just have too much of our own crap to deal with. The islands nearest to Turkey have had a terrible tourist season so far because, guess what, tourists want to go on holiday to have fun not get depressed as hell in islands with thousands and thousands of refugees.

    The situation with the slave runners is insane. The other day they even shot at a Greek coast guard ship. There is a thriving business of making fake Syrian passports for immigrants in Turkey so economic migrants can present themselves as Syrian and get treated better and the money for traffickers is said to be financing ISIS.

    I feel incredibly sorry for these people, esp. those with children it is beyond heartbreaking. But we need to do something. Maybe open processing centres in Turkey or Libya so only people who are truly in need will get through. I don't know what the future of Europe is going to look like with this situation...

    The descriptions of what happened at those Eurostar trains is just scary as hell. It's like one of those zombie movies.
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    This isn't a "racist" comment at all so don't even... Many sociologists and demographers say that unless this problem is dealt with "at source" by crushing ISIS in Syria and Iraq so people don't have to flee their brutal regime, Europe will cease to be the Christian cradle of the Enlightenment we more or less take for granted, but the largest Muslim majority in the world who would then impose Sharia law and probably do their best to carry out their sworn intent to eliminate the Jews, Christians, gays and other "undesirables" by the barbaric means we see every day on the news.
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    It's a huge problem. The countries can't cope with the amount of people trying to get here. I feel very sorry for the Syrian people and don't blame them for coming to Europe but I really don't know what is going to be done about this. Something has to be. The photos of the dead kids on the beaches are awful.

    A*O - the Muslim/ISIS point. I think that is a worry to lots of people.

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    Elite Member yanna's Avatar
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    Muslims are not themselves united. Don't think that we are importing homogeneous people who have only one agenda in mind. We are importing sectarian violence. Already there have been fights among refugees of different ethnicities.

    My main concern is not that Europe will become less Christian. This has been happening anyway with the very large numbers of atheists all over Northern Europe. I don't consider Christianity to be the main value uniting present day Europe. We are united by similar beliefs in tolerance and human rights and those are what at stake from Muslim radicals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanna View Post
    Muslims are not themselves united. Don't think that we are importing homogeneous people who have only one agenda in mind. We are importing sectarian violence. Already there have been fights among refugees of different ethnicities.

    My main concern is not that Europe will become less Christian. This has been happening anyway with the very large numbers of atheists all over Northern Europe. I don't consider Christianity to be the main value uniting present day Europe. We are united by similar beliefs in tolerance and human rights and those are what at stake from Muslim radicals.
    Oh I totally agree. I don't care about Europe being less Christian either. I'm an atheist and so is pretty much everyone I know. But you are spot on that the worry is the tolerance and human rights being at stake by the Muslim extremists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    This isn't a "racist" comment at all so don't even... Many sociologists and demographers say that unless this problem is dealt with "at source" by crushing ISIS in Syria and Iraq so people don't have to flee their brutal regime, Europe will cease to be the Christian cradle of the Enlightenment we more or less take for granted, but the largest Muslim majority in the world who would then impose Sharia law and probably do their best to carry out their sworn intent to eliminate the Jews, Christians, gays and other "undesirables" by the barbaric means we see every day on the news.
    I don't think you are being racist...I just wish that there were an easy answer to solving the problems at source. And I am certain that the refugees would agree with you - no one wants to be run from their home country.
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    Elite Member ManxMouse's Avatar
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    I've been following the issue somewhat, mostly thru NPR reports.
    Hungary needs to get its shit together. Nobody has a good solution, but what they're doing is untenable and is going to foment violence....you can't just warehouse people at the train station.

    Germany seems to have a slightly better grip, but I've not heard a single source say how any country is going to be able to absorb all these people. More than half of the asylum requests are being rejected, and then the families are in limbo in makeshift living quarters. They have no way to go back, but can't stay long-term.

    How on earth can the ISIS element be wiped out, short of a messy, all-out war that no country has the stomach for?
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    they're going to need to find a short-term solution for the crisis but also to think long-term because this isn't just a summer 2015 problem. i don't envy them and they have their own economic crisis to deal with and taking in huge amounts of refugees doesn't exactly help with that.

    the EU needs to act like it's an actual union and its members need to stop acting like this is the responsibility of individual countries and that germany alone has to deal with this just because that is where most of the refugees want to settle, and that greece and italy alone have to deal with all the boats coming in from libya. but that's nearly impossible when some heads of state - like the hungarian asshole - are from right-wing political parties whose platforms consist of being anti-immigration. but i also don't agree with the left and organisations like amnesty who are basically saying that the EU needs to open their borders and let everyone in because they're escaping war and suffering. there needs to be solidarity and an organised refugee system with fixed quotas and a formalised process but it also doesn't mean that europe has to open itself up to millions of people fleeing their fucked up countries, as if that wouldn't bring with it huge political, social and economic consequences.

    re: processing centres in turkey and libya - it's an idea worth exploring. mostly in turkey though since libya is fucked up and has two competing governments both of whom have pretty much refused to take any responsibility for the thousands of migrants leaving from its shores and the huge human trafficking networks based there. but they have to be super careful with setting them up so you don't end up with crap like what the australians did - which are basically island concentration camps for asylum seekers. actually, australia is pretty much the last country europe should look to for how to deal with a refugee/migrant situation like this.
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    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    I think one solution would be for the west to help share the load, and I'm not just talking about just the US, Canada and South American countries should agree to help also. Send ships to Europe to pick up these refugees and spread them out from Canada all the way down though South America. I wish one of the world leaders would propose this and ask the west to help. Certainly the US splashes out enough on humanitarian aid that it shouldn't be a huge strain on that budget.

    These people are seeking asylum and they shouldn't be choosy about who offers it to them. Once all the chaos dies down then they should be able to find all their loved ones and then maybe migrate to the country of their choice.

    Its killing me to see Greece so affected by this. They're already broke as a joke anyway.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    There has to be a HUGE multi-country effort to stop the illegal smuggling. These guys have monetized the suffering and stopping them will staunch the flow of refugees while countries try to deal with ones who have already gotten across.

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    Elite Member yanna's Avatar
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    Whatever it takes to not have to see another dead toddler on a beach. That kid broke my heart, he just looks like he's asleep, lying there. His parents had requested asylum in Canada and it was denied because they were not officially registered as refugees in Turkey. They were trying to pass to Greece and get registered. We have to find a way to get people processed in Turkey. They pass across on tiny boats, most of them don't know how to swim and don't have life jackets. We can't just let them die like this.
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