Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: I demand an apology!

  1. #1
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    in the wild blue yonder
    Posts
    15,479

    Default I demand an apology!

    http://www.signandsight.com/features/597.html

    I couldn't have said this better. And it's about time! Longish, but worth the read.

    "What next, bearded one?"
    Our traditional values have been trampled on and we are offended. A wake-up call. By Sonia Mikich


    I feel offended.
    Zealots are nailing veils onto the faces of my sisters in Afghanistan and Pakistan and are busy hanging women, homosexuals, adulterers and non-believers.
    But human rights, women's rights and the right to liberty are the most exalted in the history of humanity; this is the tradition in which I was raised. Values that make the world better and more peaceful.
    I demand that the governments of Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Indonesia and Egypt apologise to me. Otherwise I am unfortunately forced to threaten, beat up, kidnap or behead their citizens. Because I am somewhat sensitive about my cultural identity.
    I feel offended.
    Fanatics are blowing up the Buddhas of Bamiyan, marvellous cultural monuments.
    But art is an expression of universal beauty and innocence to me. It is a value that makes the world better and more peaceful.; this is the tradition in which I was raised.
    I demand that Hamas, the spokesman of the French Muslims and the Director of the Al-Azhar-University apologise to me. Otherwise I will never spend a holiday at the Taj Mahal, I will call for a boycott of Palestinian fruit and I will set the embassies of Tunisia, Qatar and Bangladesh on fire.
    I expect understanding for this at the very least my feelings are absolute and must be expressed globally.
    I feel offended.
    Videos show journalists, truck drivers and NGO workers having their throats slit or their heads chopped off. Jews see themselves represented as cannibals and pigs, Western women as decadent sluts. Apolitical engineers have to fear for their lives.
    All in the name of God.
    I demand that all the editors in chief of newspapers and television broadcasters in the Islamic world apologise to me, because they do nothing to prevent these obscenities.
    Many people are concerned that the clash of civilisation is near. Oh please, it has been going on for a while now, not only manifest in the monstrosities mentioned above but part of everyday life. How fragile, how superficial must Muslims' religious values be. How can cartoons in an unknown newspaper in a little European country cause such an upset and allow a handful of organised agitators to be able to drive many thousands onto the streets.
    Joking how the prophet Mohammed is running out of virgins because so many suicide bombers are standing at the gates of paradise is dark and mean. And, given the reality of global attacks, lamentably effective (just as a side note). But I did not find it especially funny that the misogynous Taliban availed themselves regularly of prostitutes. Or publicly "executed" video recorders and televisions in order to watch pornos in privacy.
    Just a reminder: the earth is not flat. It should go without saying that individuals in a secular democracy have every right to caricature and mock authorities, even religious ones. They should be prepared to meet criticism but not punishment. Freedom of expression has to be understood broadly and there are sufficient laws and rules that can be employed to prevent abuse.
    The film "The Life of Brian" annoyed a lot of Christians and provoked letters to editors, calls for boycotts and quarrels within families. But nobody in New Zealand suspected a conspiracy against Christianity, nobody in Malta felt compelled to burn the Union Jack. Nor do political authorities have a natural right to protection. Margaret Thatcher was chopped to bits by British journalists, comedians and screenwriters and then put back together in a ghastly way; it was good for the mental sanity of that era and did not kill anyone.
    Everyone had the right to turn it off, look away or toss the newspaper in the bin. Freedom of opinion was the Siamese twin of freedom from fear.
    The fact that fundamentalists of all persuasions are completely incapable of self-reflection, self-criticism, and self-irony would not warrant a mention, were it not for their practice of imposing their issues on me and my world. They assume that we will kowtow to them as soon as we recognise who they are: "Look out! Religious feelings! We're leaving the private sphere."
    In the self-referential world of God or Allah or Jahwe warriors, feelings are increasingly used as weapons and honoured as the highest authority. Readily summoned, merciless.
    In the debate over the cartoons, the prohibition of pictures is being presented as a compulsory principle of belief. To be respected everywhere, even in the state of Denmark.
    It gives pause to think that those who claim to be offended are so proficient with the Internet and other modern communication technologies but know little about their own cultural history. In Islam's heydey, pictures were made of the Prophet. Mohammed lightly veiled, for instance, on a horse riding to heaven a wonderful Persian miniature in the Chester-Beatty-Museum in Dublin. (more)
    What next, bearded one? Boycott Irish butter?
    I do not have to concern myself with the sales figures of Danish yoghurt. I am not easy to blackmail and I am free to find Immanuel Kant's "sapere aude" more conducive to successful communal living than a Fatwa.
    I hereby refuse to feel badly for the chronically insulted. I refuse to argue politely why freedom of expression, reason and humour should be respected. I do not want to continue to have to provide creationists scientific proof that the earth has been around for more than 10 000 years. And I am going to stop waiting for them to say on Al Jazeera, "Did you ever hear the one about the Prophet's beard?"
    *
    Sonia Mikich, born 1951 in Oxford, is a television and print journalist. She hosts WDR's political magazine "Monitor."
    The article originally appeared in German in die tageszeitung on February 6, 2006

  2. #2
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    I agree with some of their points. BUT, when cartoons depict negative stereotypes and implying that Islam is a religion of terrorism or course Muslims will get offended or even insulted.

    The reaction of violence by some radical hooligans is COMPLETELY unjustified. When there were stories that the Qur'an was desecrated at Guantanamo Bay, there was peaceful protests in the Middle East and no reports of violence. This slowly built up and escalating to be being overblown and out of proportion.

    I just think this is the last straw that made them tick...I am NOT justifying the violence, but I am not surprised it became like this. One factor which has to be looked at is that most Muslims live in third world countries drenched by poverty, corruption, human rights violations and oppressive regimes. Their society is of one which is more introverted and closed. So,I definetly think these factors play into why some radical hooligans went all psycho and burning down embassies.So basically, those hooligans definetly let their feelings take over in the wrong way. The thing is that what people do not understand about the Middle East is how much ANGER they have bottled up inside against the West and also because of the whole israeli-palestinian conflict and their foreign policies which have interfered in Middle East political relations which basically messed up the Middle East. In the Middle East, they really do believe the West is out to get them and trying to degrade Islam in the best ways they can....So I think that is where these violent reactions come from even though they are unjustified by all means.

  3. #3
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    BUT, when cartoons depict negative stereotypes and implying that Islam is a religion of terrorism or course Muslims will get offended or even insulted.
    ... and resort to hooliganism and terrorism to voice their displeasure, thus confirming the cartoon in the first place.

    That's the funny part.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #4
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! ourmaninBusan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    the new casino
    Posts
    4,732

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazeleyed_Honey

    The reaction of violence by some radical hooligans is COMPLETELY unjustified. When there were stories that the Qur'an was desecrated at Guantanamo Bay, there was peaceful protests in the Middle East and no reports of violence. This slowly built up and escalating to be being overblown and out of proportion.
    According to Wikipedia,


    The report sparked protests throughout the Islamic world and perhaps
    added fuel to pre-planned demonstrations in Afghanistan which turned
    deadly
    . Although the magazine subsequently retracted parts of the story,
    a U.S. military inquiry confirmed at least five cases of Qur'an mishandling
    by U.S. personnel at the base, and the affair turned the spotlight on
    earlier media reports of such incidents.
    The page goes into greater detail.

    It is probable that these are not just spontaneous eruptions of outrage;
    they are planned shows of force. The Mohammed cartoons were published
    four months ago to no response; the issue was dragged up again and
    Muslims seized on it to intimidate embassy staff and docile politicians.

    The same is true of the Qu'ran-flushing story; it was reported with no
    reaction at first from the Muslim community, but the story was later
    resurrected -- by those Muslim extremists who organize protests and
    demand that unbelievers be put to death.

    ♫` ∴|| ~∞≠∝ ♫♪ $ -4C

  5. #5
    Elite Member twitchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Dancing on your grave!!!!
    Posts
    9,131

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    If the cartoons came out in September, where has the outrage been for the past few months?

  6. #6
    Elite Member Glasgow53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Connecticut, US
    Posts
    1,572

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    It took a while to organize the spontaneous outraged protest.
    Keep passing the open windows.

  7. #7
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,885

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    It took awhile for the cartoons to be circulated. And for the doctored ones to be, um, doctored. Plus, have you ever tried to translate from Danish? No offense to the Danes on this board, but that is one scary-sounding language.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  8. #8
    Elite Member twitchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Dancing on your grave!!!!
    Posts
    9,131

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch
    It took awhile for the cartoons to be circulated. And for the doctored ones to be, um, doctored. Plus, have you ever tried to translate from Danish? No offense to the Danes on this board, but that is one scary-sounding language.
    This made me chuckle. My dad's foster mom was Danish and it always sounded to me like she was clearing her throat and talking at the same time.

  9. #9
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninBusan
    According to Wikipedia,

    The page goes into greater detail.

    It is probable that these are not just spontaneous eruptions of outrage;
    they are planned shows of force. The Mohammed cartoons were published
    four months ago to no response; the issue was dragged up again and
    Muslims seized on it to intimidate embassy staff and docile politicians.

    The same is true of the Qu'ran-flushing story; it was reported with no
    reaction at first from the Muslim community, but the story was later
    resurrected -- by those Muslim extremists who organize protests and
    demand that unbelievers be put to death.
    I just think that this is the last straw,for these religious people over in the Middle East, that broke the camel's back. This violence is very unjustified and unacceptable,but they have all this anger bottled up against the West, that to them making fun of the Prophet made them lash into fury and rage. They associate these demeaning cartoons as a war against them from the West.

    Yes, there were published months ago these cartoons, but it was kept from Middle Eastern maintream news. The Muslim diplomats were trying to discuss with the Danish about this for them to retract these cartoons and they did not succeed. Once the radicals got their hands out, and the religious Muslims heard about it, all hell broke loose for them.

    In the Middle East, they really do view as the West is out to get them and trying to bring down Islam. They have such bitterness against the West for its foreign policies, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the invasion of the Iraq war,etc...So when something like this happens when they insult Prophet Mohammed, they directly see it as an attack on them and retaliate back with violence even though it is unjustifiable.They definetly do think the U.S. government is behind all this.

    For example, here is what one protester professed to the media...
    Cartoon Protesters Direct Anger at U.S.
    Feb 08 10:06 PM US/Eastern

    By NOOR KHAN
    Associated Press Writer

    QALAT, Afghanistan

    Police killed four people Wednesday as Afghans enraged over drawings of the Prophet Muhammad marched on a U.S. military base in a volatile southern province, directing their anger not against Europe but America.

    The U.S. base was targeted because the United States "is the leader of Europe and the leading infidel in the world," said Sher Mohammed, a 40-year-old farmer who suffered a gunshot wound while taking part in the demonstration in the city of Qalat.

    "They are all the enemy of Islam. They are occupiers in our country and must be driven out," Mohammed said.

    ...
    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/08/D8FLB3F81.html

    That is the root of it all.

  10. #10
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    What a ridiculous concept, being the 'enemy' of some belief system. How stupid and narrowminded.

    It's like me being an enemy of shintoism cuz I invaded Japan for their rice. Doesn't make any sense.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  11. #11
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    What a ridiculous concept, being the 'enemy' of some belief system. How stupid and narrowminded.

    It's like me being an enemy of shintoism cuz I invaded Japan for their rice. Doesn't make any sense.
    Well, in the Middle East, being a Muslim is a big part of their identity. So they definetly see it that way.More of like they see it as an attack from the West on their culture, religion, politics. and identity.

    I was looking around for websites to show you the typical Muslim mindset and why they believe the West is out to get them...Here is an explanation I found from some religious Muslim...
    While I do not say that this is a war against Islam per se, I certainly do think this is a war against the political form of Islam (which is required according to the Quran) since the political form of Islam with it's different ideology as compared to Western "liberal democracy" might be viewed as un-cooperative and as such as danger to Western leaders (and indeed any leaders) interests, thus they strive to get rid of this danger, exactly how Communism was seen as a danger to the West during the Cold War.Some people might see this website as "sensationalist", while I see what they mean because the title of this site is quite inflammatory, there is merit to my naming of this website as it is. Right now in the world there are many Muslim countries wherein the minorities are persecuted, I acknowledge that, there should be more efforts to solve these problems too.

    I believe this is a war on Islam, or rather the political aspect of Islam judging by the repeated attempts to put down attempts to implement the Shariah as seen in places like Central Asia where Western nations speak about the supposed threat posed by these systems of governance and how they supposedly support terrorism and in general denouncing the Islamic political system as totalitarian and as the new Communism which will make the people subject to it backwards with poverty and illiteracy and that the Islamic political system denies certain rights, blatantly ignoring the fact that these movements emerge as a counter to the tyrannical dictatorships which Western governments support and aid who oppress their subjects and deny any chance of progress due to corruption, nepotism and the plutocratic governments and elite which deny their people rights, all this support is given in order to aid these governments against the imagined threat of an "Islamic tyrannical regime" when in fact these militant groups want freedom and equality and they want to achieve this goal by implementing an Islamic political system. So in fact the very attributes which the Western governments claim to fight for, namely freedom and justice, is the very attribute which they support by aiding these tyrannical regimes and thus the Western governments bring more hate towards themselves. This is repeated in many nations, especially the Arab world.

    I believe that since they are fighting to stop the implementation of the Shariah, that they are fighting Islam with it since Islam requires nations with Muslim majorities to live by Islamic laws. I do not believe they are fighting the religion and it's spiritual aspects per se, rather they are fighting to stop the political system.
    http://www.ummah.com/waragainstislam

    I agree with him on some points, but not all.

    I see it more like this...This is all about politics...

    After all, the U.S. needed to fight a new war, and in the post Cold War era, islamic fundamentalism seemed like a good candidate to place as the enemy.After the fall of the Soviet Union and communism, they needed to prop up a new nemesis. Powerful empires and states always plan for wars.These governments believe that wars secure states. Afterall, who armed these islamic fundamentalists?The U.S.And with wars with the kind of power they have, they can use it for their means of colonialist expansion. This new "era" began with the Gulf War where the U.S. wanted to show its new strength as the sole superpower. They prop up these wars for economic, political and social interests to gain their means.That is what ensures the U.S. to mainting being a hegemony (the only and main superpower of the world).

  12. #12
    Gold Member gonflable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    830

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    I'm unsure of the background of why the cartoons were posted in Jyllandsposten, but this is how I see things from a Norwegian viewpoint.

    A little while after the cartoons were printed in the Danish newspaper, an obscure little newspaper in Norway with 5000 readers at most, called Magazine, reprinted the cartoons. I didn't even know the paper excisted before all of this. But anyway, Magazine is a very VERY Christian paper. For the editor, it was most certainly more behind printing them than just the 'freedom of speech'. He doesn't like Islam, and found another way to show this.

    And now people are clinging to freedom of speach like it was the last straw they had left, and acting like it's "duty of speech" instead. And the damn thing will never stop. Even Norwegian writers tell people to print the cartoons because of the freedom of speech, instead of just shutting the hell up and praying for this to stop. Yes, I know they have the right to say what they want, but sometimes it's wiser to bite your tongue and moving on to the next subject you want to say something about.

    It has gone as far as people harassing muslims on the streets here, and tonight it was a peaceful "demonstration" in Oslo, where people were told that even though some fundamentalists burns down embassies, it doesn't mean all muslims are behind it.

    I'm scared and wish people would just stop provoking and stirring up shit (which is what some people are doing). People have apologized, but that is no help if people just continue printing those stupid drawings.

    I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense, it's almost 4 am here and I have no idea why I'm still up
    Mmm... Am I wrong, or did it just get fatter in here?

  13. #13
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    So it was a Christian paper that reprinted those cartoons in Norway? Yeah, did you hear how in the Denmark newspaper, they refused to print pictures making fun of Jesus because they were afraid it would lead to an outcry, three years ago?

    Well,I think in the U.S.,because of 9/11 there has been a wave of anti-Muslim sentiment. In Europe though, they've always had hard feelings about outsiders to their countries, not all, but my general view is that they have a hard time to assimilate foreigners to their countries,like in France. My mom's friends have had bad experiences there and they were French Canadians from Quebec!

    Yeah, a mosque in Hull,Quebec the other day, there was vandalism where they broke windows.

  14. #14
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    Erm, from what I understand it's the muslims not wanting to really integrate, it seems endemic to them wherever they go.

    Hell, even in Canada some of them fit in (the more liberal of them) but the hardcore ones just try to set up their own little enclaves

    they even tried to have Sharia law here, and the premier of the province slammed that shut real quick, and declared there would be NO religious tribunals or dispute settlement whatsoever, and that it was one law for all.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #15
    Gold Member gonflable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    830

    Default Re: I demand an apology!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazeleyed_Honey
    So it was a Christian paper that reprinted those cartoons in Norway? Yeah, did you hear how in the Denmark newspaper, they refused to print pictures making fun of Jesus because they were afraid it would lead to an outcry, three years ago?

    Well,I think in the U.S.,because of 9/11 there has been a wave of anti-Muslim sentiment. In Europe though, they've always had hard feelings about outsiders to their countries, not all, but my general view is that they have a hard time to assimilate foreigners to their countries,like in France. My mom's friends have had bad experiences there and they were French Canadians from Quebec!

    Yeah, a mosque in Hull,Quebec the other day, there was vandalism where they broke windows.
    Yes, it was a Christian paper.

    Someway I highly doubt Christians would burn something if cartoons of Jesus were printed, they'd just pray a whole lot more

    Yes, there are hard feelings towards immigrants, but that may be because of the violent history and the problems we have had because of it. Lots and lots of people seek asylum here (in Norway) and are released out on the streets right away, and sometimes it has had tragic consequences. Like when a man went amok on the subway and stabbed a few people to death, or when a man hijacked a bus and killed the busdriver. It is a small country so things like this make more impact than usual. And then you have the drug problems following these people. Oslo have not been a peaceful city since immigrations started for real, and there are places I won't go alone in fear of something happening... So it's a typical example of people, sadly enough, ruining for those few peaceful ones. Yes, we're sceptic, and I understand that... but that still doesn't give us the right to harass people, and for the most time we're quite calm...

    But I'm venturing off topic, and I have no idea what my point is, as I have just woke up.

    And Grimm- yes, they have a hard time integrating, but sometimes I blame that on society (again, viewpoint Norway :p). We have absolutely no programs for integrating people and they're just thrown out on the streets after they come here. That still doesn't excuse the violence and drug problems though, and one of the solutions would probably be to have closed asylums until they had been checked thoroughly...

    We don't have the hardcore muslims either, we somehow got the peaceful ones (those not using religion as an excuse that is), and most of the asylum seekers aren't even practicing Islam (they're probably muslims, but non-practising)
    Mmm... Am I wrong, or did it just get fatter in here?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. The Demand For Perfection
    By JamieElizabeth in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: November 24th, 2006, 05:30 PM
  2. Dems step up demand for 'classified' info from Bush admin
    By Grimmlok in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: November 24th, 2006, 11:57 AM
  3. A heartfelt apology to the USA from Canada
    By Grimmlok in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: July 15th, 2006, 05:47 PM
  4. Tom Cruise & Katie Holmes Demand Private Potty Time
    By lovely bones in forum Gossip Archive
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: May 29th, 2006, 06:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •