Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34

Thread: Are we being lied to about 'pirates'?

  1. #1
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,885

    Default Are we being lied to about 'pirates'?

    Who imagined that in 2009, the world's governments would be declaring a new War on Pirates? As you read this, the British Royal Navy backed by the ships of more than two dozen nations, from the US to China is sailing into Somalian waters to take on men we still picture as parrot-on-the-shoulder pantomime villains. They will soon be fighting Somalian ships and even chasing the pirates onto land, into one of the most broken countries on earth. But behind the arrr-me-hearties oddness of this tale, there is an untold scandal. The people our governments are labelling as "one of the great menaces of our times" have an extraordinary story to tell and some justice on their side.
    Related articles

    * US captain held by Somali pirates is freed

    Pirates have never been quite who we think they are. In the "golden age of piracy" from 1650 to 1730 the idea of the pirate as the senseless, savage Bluebeard that lingers today was created by the British government in a great propaganda heave. Many ordinary people believed it was false: pirates were often saved from the gallows by supportive crowds. Why? What did they see that we can't? In his book Villains Of All Nations, the historian Marcus Rediker pores through the evidence.

    If you became a merchant or navy sailor then plucked from the docks of London's East End, young and hungry you ended up in a floating wooden Hell. You worked all hours on a cramped, half-starved ship, and if you slacked off, the all-powerful captain would whip you with the Cat O' Nine Tails. If you slacked often, you could be thrown overboard. And at the end of months or years of this, you were often cheated of your wages.

    Pirates were the first people to rebel against this world. They mutinied and created a different way of working on the seas. Once they had a ship, the pirates elected their captains, and made all their decisions collectively, without torture. They shared their bounty out in what Rediker calls "one of the most egalitarian plans for the disposition of resources to be found anywhere in the eighteenth century".

    They even took in escaped African slaves and lived with them as equals. The pirates showed "quite clearly and subversively that ships did not have to be run in the brutal and oppressive ways of the merchant service and the Royal Navy." This is why they were romantic heroes, despite being unproductive thieves.

    The words of one pirate from that lost age, a young British man called William Scott, should echo into this new age of piracy. Just before he was hanged in Charleston, South Carolina, he said: "What I did was to keep me from perishing. I was forced to go a-pirateing to live." In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

    Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

    Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Mr Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."

    At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish stocks by overexploitation and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m-worth of tuna, shrimp, and lobster are being stolen every year by illegal trawlers. The local fishermen are now starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."

    This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia and ordinary Somalis agree. The independent Somalian news site WardheerNews found 70 per cent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence".

    No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But in a telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali: "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas." William Scott would understand.

    Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? We won't act on those crimes the only sane solution to this problem but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit-corridor for 20 per cent of the world's oil supply, we swiftly send in the gunboats.

    The story of the 2009 war on piracy was best summarised by another pirate, who lived and died in the fourth century BC. He was captured and brought to Alexander the Great, who demanded to know "what he meant by keeping possession of the sea." The pirate smiled, and responded: "What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you, who do it with a great fleet, are called emperor." Once again, our great imperial fleets sail but who is the robber?http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...s-1225817.html

    I had no idea this was happening to Somalia. A good article and I agree that while some 'pirates' are basically opportunists others are fighting for their lives. Very interesting indeed.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  2. #2
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    27,762

    Default

    Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome?
    Yeah, that's the thing right there. I didn't realize it either until I asked my husband wtf is *up* with this resurgence of pirates, of all things. It just sounded too weird to me. He told me how he'd read the same thing about the toxic dumping. Good article.

  3. #3
    Elite Member Aella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    8,899

    Default

    Yeah, I posted an article along those lines in the other pirates thread. First world countries fucking over the developing world by draining their resources and raping the environment-and yet the pirates are supposed to be the 'villains' in this scenario.
    "Remember to always be yourself. Unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

    "The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance." -Benjamin Franklin

  4. #4
    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    34,698

    Default

    Wow, had no clue either. Very interesting article. Makes a bit more sense doesn't it??

  5. #5
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,885

    Default

    Yeah, it really does. This article took me completely by surprise and I'm glad it appeared in a major paper so that maybe people won't completely demonize what are obviously a people in dire straights.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  6. #6
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    13,468

    Default

    (I'm not 'justifying' piracy or those who have felt fear or harm from them, but it is an interesting article, and little wonder that there is a lot of discussion out there on fighting the 'symptoms' of what causes piracy)

    US captain's rescue raises stakes in piracy ops - Yahoo! News
    Experts indicated that piracy in the Indian Ocean off Somalia, which transformed one of the world's busiest shipping lanes into one of its most dangerous, has entered a new phase with the Navy SEAL rescue operation of Phillips.
    It "could escalate violence in this part of the world, no question about it," said Vice Adm. Bill Gortney, commander of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command.
    The International Maritime Bureau said Monday it supported the action by the U.S. and French navies, but cautioned it may spark retaliatory moves by pirates.
    "We applaud the U.S. and the French action. We feel that they are making the right move, although the results sometimes may be detrimental," said Noel Choong of the IMB's piracy center in Kuala Lumpur.
    He did not elaborate, but for families of the 228 foreign nationals aboard 13 ships still held by pirates, the fear is revenge on their loved ones.
    "Those released are lucky, but what about those who remain captive?" said Vilma de Guzman, the wife of Filipino seafarer Ruel de Guzman. He has been held by pirates since Nov. 10 along with the 22 other Filipino crew of the chemical tanker MT Stolt Strength.

    The U.S. rescue operation "might be dangerous (for) the remaining hostages because the pirates might vent their anger on them," she said.
    So far, Somali pirates have never harmed captive foreign crews except for a Taiwanese crew member who was killed under unclear circumstances. In fact, many former hostages say they were treated well and given sumptuous food.

    The pirates had operated with near-impunity in the Gulf of Aden north of Somalia, and more recently in waters south of the country after a multinational naval force began patrolling the Gulf.
    Choong said there have been 74 attacks this year with 15 hijackings as compared to 111 attacks for all of last year.
    The modus operandi of the pirates is simple: Board unarmed or lightly armed merchant ships, fire shots in the air or at the hull to intimidate the crew, divert the ships to hide-outs on the Somali coast and wait for the owners to pay millions of dollars in ransom.
    But the game changed last week when the pirates boarded the U.S.-flagged Maersk Alabama. In an act of courage, Phillips offered himself as hostage in return for the safety of his crew.
    The pirates transferred the 53-year-old Phillips, a Vermont native, to a lifeboat. But the pirates had not counted on the U.S. military's resolve. After a five-day standoff during which a small U.S. flotilla tailed the lifeboat, Navy SEAL snipers on a destroyer shot and killed three pirates and plucked an unharmed Phillips to safety. A fourth pirate surrendered.
    The comrades of the slain pirates immediately threatened retaliation.
    "From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them," said Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old self-proclaimed pirate, told The Associated Press by telephone from the pirate hub, Eyl.
    Abdullahi Lami, one of the pirates holding a Greek ship in the pirate den of Gaan, a central Somali town, told the AP that pirates will not take the U.S. action lying down.
    "We will retaliate for the killings of our men," he said.
    Giles Noakes, chief maritime security officer of the largest international shipping association, the Denmark-based BIMCO, says it is premature to say Philips' rescue will lead to an escalation of violence.
    "The question here is whether there will be a change of attitude in the pirates and in their modus operandi. We hope the change will be that they will be even more deterred because of the successful action by both the Maersk Alabama crew and the navies," he said.

    Many of the governments whose ships have been captured including Taiwan's Win Far 161 with a multinational crew of 30 are in talks with the pirates and would not comment on the consequences of the American rescue for fear of jeopardizing the negotiations.
    "We are monitoring the situation closely, but the ship owner wants to keep a low profile to help with their negotiation with the abductors," Taiwanese Foreign Ministry spokesman Henry Chen said.
    He said the crew, comprising 17 Filipinos, six Indonesians, five Chinese and two Taiwanese, were safe as of Monday.
    Some families also wonder if Phillips' rescue drew so much of attention because of his nationality.
    "It's difficult when the ship's crew are all Filipinos because we are ignored," said de Guzman. "Maybe if there are Japanese, Koreans or British among the crew, the case would get more attention."

  7. #7
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    42,527

    Default

    Pirates are pirates. I would like to think they had a noble reson,but money seems to be uppermost.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  8. #8
    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    34,698

    Default

    ^^True. And honestly, they've looted tens of millions now. Isn't that enough? When/where does it end?? Regardless of the situation that led them to taking such drastic measures, they now seem to be getting very greedy....

  9. #9
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Den of the roving cunty bitches
    Posts
    24,533

    Default

    I have NO sympathy for people that shoot, kidnap and hold others hostage.

    Sorry, but starving or not, they know that is wrong.

  10. #10
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    support histiocytosis awareness
    Posts
    7,363

    Default

    ^^ thank you!

    Excuse me but the ship they attacked was headed to Somalia as well as other places with rations of food.

    Note Black Hawk Down - I was ticked when I found out we were feeding those people. Spread your booty and feed your damn selves.

    Do not glorify pirates, innocent people from around the world are being ransomed off, how about the family where the father was killed, there were two children in that boat.

    America has a policy of not dealing with terrorist and thats what they are, not pirates.

    They have received millions what have they done with the money, Somalia is the same shit hole it has always been.

    Unlike Black Hawk Down we didn't screw up, we didn't loose and they aren't jumping up and down laughing how the took on the U.S. and won and thats how I see it.

    I'm very pleased how this ended, I'm all for putting sharp shooters on all the merchant vessels - play shooting ducks out of the water. How many do we need - as many as it takes
    Last edited by GaPeach; April 13th, 2009 at 08:40 PM.

  11. #11
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    13,468

    Default

    Well the U.S. may not deal with terrorists, but the fact remains the FBI was specifically asked for in this situation in order to deal with the hostage situation. In fact one of the Somalis was actually onboard the Bainbridge.

    Apparently the commander in charge gave the order to fire as he felt the captain's life was in imminent danger.

    So was the 'hostage negotiation' just a ruse to get all the pieces in place? Or was there a genuine attempt to do some form of negotiating before they realized the situation was going bad?

    Just asking.

  12. #12
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    33,489

    Default

    if our government is speaking, it's a safe bet we are being lied to
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  13. #13
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    Well the U.S. may not deal with terrorists, but the fact remains the FBI was specifically asked for in this situation in order to deal with the hostage situation. In fact one of the Somalis was actually onboard the Bainbridge.

    Apparently the commander in charge gave the order to fire as he felt the captain's life was in imminent danger.

    So was the 'hostage negotiation' just a ruse to get all the pieces in place? Or was there a genuine attempt to do some form of negotiating before they realized the situation was going bad?

    Just asking.
    I'd say the former.. the only way to cap the pirates with headshots was to move/tow the craft to calmer waters. Calmer waters = less movement, easier to hit.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  14. #14
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    13,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    I'd say the former.. the only way to cap the pirates with headshots was to move/tow the craft to calmer waters. Calmer waters = less movement, easier to hit.
    Yea it seems like that.

    Obviously the tone has been set. If I were on board one of those ships in that area, I would take it upon myself to have guns ready and fight back.

  15. #15
    A*O
    A*O is offline
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! A*O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Being Paula
    Posts
    30,396

    Default

    The pirates seem to be motivated more by the massive ransoms they have obtained from some Govts, eg France, than bringing the toxic waste dumping to worldwide attention [makes note not to eat Somali seafood].
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
    Dame Edna Everage

    Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Anastacia, 40, confesses to having always lied about her age
    By funky_chicken in forum Latest Gossip
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: August 31st, 2008, 07:02 AM
  2. 67 year old woman lied to get IVF
    By enctpc in forum News
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: January 28th, 2007, 04:34 AM
  3. Janet Jackson got fat and lied about it
    By Grimmlok in forum Gossip Archive
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: September 28th, 2006, 01:36 PM
  4. Pentagon and F.A.A lied to 9/11 commission!
    By Grimmlok in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: August 2nd, 2006, 03:37 PM
  5. Bush lied about wiretaps
    By buttmunch in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: December 28th, 2005, 01:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •