Why is plastic surgery so frowned upon? - Page 15

Mira · February 14th, 2007, 02:34 PM

I stand corrected then.... but I don't believe there is a level of deception. If people want implants they need to do the research about the product, and determine the best method of implantation for their body type. After that, it's called "assumption of risk". There are documents to sign where you acknowledge you understand the risks. With all the muckraking going on about the implant industry in recent years, the information is all out there - if people don't avail themselves of it that is their own fault. Implantation is a serious undertaking and should be approached as such. A lot of women don't do that. They just find the first doctor who will do it (doesn't have a waiting list). Good doctors have fairly long waiting lists.

One woman I met in the sauna at a massage spa a few years ago waited an entire year for her facelift. She went for a really expensive doctor in San Francisco after researching the hell out of the issue including interviewing former facelift clients of his. His fee was $20K. Iit appears to be worth every single penny. She looked absolutely fantastic. I simply could not believe her face. She was 47 and literally looked 32. Of course, she was a plump rosy rubenesque woman and that helped. But there were NO scars and she looked amazing.

Picara · February 14th, 2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phishtickie

As for other things mentioned, trust me again, I am not interested in fake breasts, consciously or otherwise, I have pretty big breasts myself. lol

Thanks for clearing that up!

Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

phishtickie · February 14th, 2007, 04:55 PM

Thanks

I don't want to make anyone feel bad or anything... Just caution others who aren't quite there yet, I guess.

cheray · February 14th, 2007, 07:00 PM

Gotta put in my two cents worth here. When you hear on the news of breast implant "horror" people will still go and get implants cos that "horror" happened to someone else. When you hear on the news of a "Four Dead in Car Crash Horror" you still jump in your car and go to work the next day. (Not if you were in the crash, I mean you if you heard it on the news....ohh forget it) Point is ...You can be informed and still gamble that it will be OK for you. And most of the time it is OK. Phishtickie, thems fightin' words you said. You are very brave.

NHKMM · February 14th, 2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phishtickie

I do believe that once you get fake breasts, you BECOME the fake breasts over yourself.

That's the funniest thing I read in ages. WFT? lol

twitchy · February 14th, 2007, 10:21 PM

I dunno. I think Phishtickie has a point. In some cases, people do become their fake breasts. I've seen fake tits totally change someone's personality. A person I knew went from being normal to wearing the tightest, most revealing clothing, endlessly flirting, sleeping around, using men for money etc. Look at these! She seemed to simultaneously crave attention and feel utter contempt for anyone giving it. Her definition of herself had changed. Old friends were discarded and branded "jealous". Not everyone is like this, but some are.

Lobelia · February 14th, 2007, 10:33 PM

Yep, that would be me.

twitchy · February 14th, 2007, 10:37 PM

Somehow I doubt that! You seem quite grounded.

phishtickie · February 15th, 2007, 06:16 AM

See, this is part of what I mean- I am judging the concept of IMPLANTS and companies and corrupt doctors, and people take it personally like I am judging THEM, which I am not doing, as far as I can see. I was called an "arrogant bitch" for trying to say something positive- talk about judging people and using harsh words towards a person who has an admittedly strong opinion on a practice (not a person, I have to repeat).
I am not talking about absolutely everyone either, but I think it does happen for some people, that they become defined in their social life by that specific thing, implants. You know, like, how people will know and talk about it in front of you or not, how a lot of men will only notice THAT part of you and not look any closer, all that stuff.
Also, I don't understand how people can be so negative to what I am saying- basically that being natural is good and lovely and you don't have to feel inadequate because of it. How can that ever be a bad thing?? And how can you misunderstand it so much when I say that it makes me angry that women have died and suffered because of these things for a long long time? How is any of that bad??
Anyway, sorry if you can't see my points, but I wasn't trying to insult anyone personally.

crumpet · February 15th, 2007, 09:43 AM

See, this is part of what I mean- I am judging the concept of IMPLANTS and companies and corrupt doctors, and people take it personally like I am judging THEM, which I am not doing, as far as I can see. I was called an "arrogant bitch" for trying to say something positive- talk about judging people and using harsh words towards a person who has an admittedly strong opinion on a practice (not a person, I have to repeat).
Phish: I do not think you are an arrogant bitch. To the contrary, you seem like a very intelligent person, but I took exception to the remark that 'people become the implants' because that is a sweeping generalization of women who have many different resons for and reactions to getting their implants. That sounded very arrogant and judgemental of the individual whom you do not know. That said, I admire you for being bilingual and understand that English not being your native language things may not always come out as intended. For what it's worth, I also think that natural diversity should be appreciated and agree that people shouldn't be judged for not opting to 'fix' a physical characteristic not deemed ideal by a superficial culture. That is my only real gripe with the current state of ps: that as it becomes more widely available and visible it beomes expected that anyone with less than ideal features will be off running to the doc to get ammended, and that anyone who chooses not to gets judged for having the nerve to accept themselves as they are.
I dunno. I think Phishtickie has a point. In some cases, people do become their fake breasts. I've seen fake tits totally change someone's personality. A person I knew went from being normal to wearing the tightest, most revealing clothing, endlessly flirting, sleeping around, using men for money etc. Look at these! She seemed to simultaneously crave attention and feel utter contempt for anyone giving it. Her definition of herself had changed. Old friends were discarded and branded "jealous". Not everyone is like this, but some are.
Twitchy: i,too, have met women to whom this applies. They spend so much of their lives obsessing over their lack of endowment that when they do get boobs they want it out there front and center and mishandle the attention they get that tehy perceive being a result of having bigger boobs. In reality, they may just be getting a favorable response due to feeling more confident but they can't see that. If friends object to their new behavior or undesireable attitude of conceit they are branded jealous, when really that isn't the case. However, I've seen the same thing happen with two women I know who had gastric bypass and went from a size 22 to a 6. They suddenly were getting noticed by men and let the attention go to their heads. They both had men who loved them regardless of size but traded those men in for losers trying to pick them up in bars. Both of their marriages failed after 15-25 years with their spouses who were devoted to them. I think any major change in appearance can lead to a change in attitude either for better or worse.

sputnik · February 15th, 2007, 11:32 AM

the bottom line for me is that PS can be good if done in moderation and for the right reasons - and with reasonable expectations. i think in a lot of cases people get PS when they would be better off using that money for therapy. but in some cases it can be ok. yes, it's an admission of vanity, and maybe those that are so anti-PS and adamant about staying natural and refuse to go the way of botox, lipo, nose jobs, etc... are stronger and more confident and less vain than most of us, but i don't think it's fair to say that anyone that does choose to have PS is weak and vain or that they should be pitied for lacking the self-confidence to accept themselves exactly as they are... well, if they have PS in moderation, that is... i think it is the case though for people that have procedures they don't need or for people that feel pressured into PS or feel like they should get it or that it's expected.
i'm also more wary when it comes to implants - i think women should be even more careful and cautious about them than with other procedures because it's not just the operation that is a risk, it's the long-term consequences of having a foreign object into your body, one that could potentially leak. which is why i personally think it's ridiculous to get implants just because you want bigger breasts, even if yours are perfectly fine to begin with. it's another case if you've breastfed and they're droopy or you have tuberous breasts or, of course, in case of reconstruction after a mastectomy.

crumpet · February 15th, 2007, 11:50 AM

It has occurred to me that in this society we applaud people for trying to improve themselves in every way:educationally, occupationally, socially, and physically. We don't tell poor people to accept that that's they way they are. We don't tell that to fat people, either. We don't encourage people to stay in low paying dead end jobs or to stay in a cramped 2 room apt in a dangerous neighborhood. Why would we look down on someone just for wanting to be prettier and utilizing the means available to achieve that, especially since we know that attractive people have more opportunities of all types. They always have, even before ps was around to even the playing field so to speak.

phishtickie · February 15th, 2007, 12:22 PM

That's because for some people it is far more important to be intelligent, coherent, educated, than to look a certain way, which in my opinion isn't necessarily better in any way. It is a good thing to not encourage vanity, because as humans we have it naturally anyway, I don't think we need more. We already focus on appearances WAY too much instead of obviously more important issues.

sputnik · February 15th, 2007, 05:52 PM

^^^
yeah but what's wrong with a little improvement, as long as you don't go overboard.
i think crumpet raises a very good point. and beauty and physical appearance are pure luck anyway, like a genetic lottery. and i don't think there is anything wrong with a little vanity. and if you can afford it, why not? i used to be way more against PS but only because it used to be more obvious and/or grotesque. and it still is in a lot of cases. but done in moderation and if you do your research and most of all, pick a good doctor, why not?

phishtickie · February 15th, 2007, 07:01 PM

It's just not as important as brains, education and personalilty to me, that's all. Nothing wrong with a *little* vanity. A little to me means all that stuff that people usually mention to point out that we are all vain to some extent: makeup, eyebrow plucking, hair dying, etc etc. That to me is normal vanity. I just don't believe that the whole thing with PS is "normal", I think it has been pushed and hyped and advertized to make people buy it as normal and totally ok, for instance through tv shows. But those never show the pain and the real time it takes to recover and just how much can go wrong and how much maintenance work you have to do and how much you have to pay I think it's fucking irresponsible. But hey, they have a product to sell and unfortunately we are buying