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Thread: Then and Now - How breeders have changed pedigree dogs for the worse

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    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Default Then and Now - How breeders have changed pedigree dogs for the worse

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    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    So sad. The "better" the dog, the more likely it will have hip dysplasia or respiratory problems or a zillion other issues.
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    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    They look fatter and wrinklier today. And that white bull terrier has a deformed head now. Good job breeders.

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    Elite Member Flygirl's Avatar
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    It's the now mashed up noses I can't get past. I imagine they have terrible respiratory issues.

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    Elite Member Air Quotes's Avatar
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    Not to mention all the stinkles.
    "A true whore just loves her life." - Sluce

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    Elite Member Icepik's Avatar
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    My sister had an Olde Bulldogge, and it was so sad to watch that dog breathe. It wheezed and snorted all the time, drooled uncontrollably. He always seemed so uncomfortable. It was one of the most loving dogs I have ever met, but when he died, there was a part of me that thought he was finally out of his misery.

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    Elite Member Kat Scorp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flygirl View Post
    It's the now mashed up noses I can't get past. I imagine they have terrible respiratory issues.
    Yes, they do. Same with the over-bred pedigree cats with the flat faces.


    One of the fugliest mutts on the planet.

    My (dead) dachshund was bought from a pedigree breeder in early '82 and he was the best. Dog. EVAH! But that recent purebred picture has a longer torso then my old doxie's; the breeders are putting the more mutts' spines to the test.
    Tiene razon, y gracias por su opinion. Now go fuck yourself.

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    Gold Member manningmsj's Avatar
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    God, that's startling. I do have to wonder about the coloring of the dachshund in black and white, though. It looks like it has the markings of a black and tan, which tend to be a little more compact and have those softer, mushy noses. "Red" doxies like the one in the color photo are usually longer with pointy snouts. Still, I'm only going by my experience as a lifelong owner and obviously they were already "transforming" long before that. It makes me sad to think the breed I've known and loved for thirty years was already altered before I ever knew them.

    In any case, my black and tan shares more similarities with the older photo. She's a puppy mill rescue and has some major health issues, but she's the most "perfect" dachshund I've ever seen. People constantly comment on her markings and shiny fur and a few people have even said she could be a show dog (you know, if she was a few pounds lighter and knew more than two tricks). She's very compact, which made her IVDD surprising, and doesn't have the length or snout of a typical dachshund. I actually always assumed she was bred specifically for her looks, without any regard to her health or intelligence (definitely NOT bred for intelligence, LOL), but seeing the photo of the old dachshund kind of has me reconsidering that idea. This may sound weird, but seeing how much she resembles what a dachshund should look like makes me feel a tiny bit better about her lineage. At least I know she wasn't totally mutated and tampered with like a science experiment by the monsters who created her. It's also nice to know I don't have to feel so bad for thinking she's the cutest dog that ever lived. I always felt guilty appreciating what a beautiful dog she really is because I thought it was the very reason for her suffering - some greedy fuck of a breeder wanting to make the most adorable dog he could, no matter what damage it did to her health. Maybe that's not the case and she's so beautiful in spite of everything. It doesn't temper my rage for the people who bred her, but it's one more reason to appreciate what a special little nugget she is anyway.

    Thanks for posting this. Animal threads always get to me, but my pup's recent health issues have me especially sappy. Sorry for the soliloquy. I'm going to coo over how perfect and gorgeous my dog is now. Lord knows she doesn't give me many reasons to call her 'good' and 'smart.'
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    Elite Member Laurent's Avatar
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    That poor dachshund, especially. Ugh.
    “What are you looking at, sugar-tits?” - Mel Gibson

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    Elite Member Icepik's Avatar
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    I own a couple of purebred Dachshunds. One I bought from a breeder who has all her dogs registered with the Canadian Kennel Club, even my dog. He doesn't look much different than the original, to me, anyway. The legs are a little shorter, though.

    This is my boy....



    I also have a piebald, but everyone that has ever seen her have never guessed her to be a Dachshund, maybe because of her unique markings. She has the little legs, barrel chest and floppy ears.


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    Elite Member Laurent's Avatar
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    My dog is a dachshund/Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix and he has that barrel chest with the short legs like a wiener. He also has had a few back problems in the past and I have to be very careful to make sure he does no jumping on furniture or beds anymore. A long back is just a minefield of problems you have to navigate around. I'm so scared something will happen to his back and that there won't be anything that can be done for him.
    “What are you looking at, sugar-tits?” - Mel Gibson

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    Elite Member Kat Scorp's Avatar
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    My doxie was a short/wire hair tan too, but although he was compact Manningmsj, he also had the longer face you aren't used to seeing in tan doxies. Perhaps differences between your country's breeding output, and Aussie '80s output? Hug your puppy for me!

    Icepick! Imma steal that piebald! Squee!!!
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    Gold Member manningmsj's Avatar
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    Icepik, your boy is so beautiful!!! And I agree he looks much more like the before-dachshund. My comment was a little general, but I just meant that I've seen a lot more reds with the super long bodies and noses than the other colors. I had a red growing up (that lived for almost 19 wonderfully healthy years) and she had the shorter snout and compact body like yours has too. I actually never realized before seeing this thread that those weren't "natural" characteristics. I thought some colors were just shaped differently and that my red looked less dachshund-y. Strange now to consider she looked exactly how she was supposed to.

    Also, I have the same confusion with my black and tan as you do with your piebald. I have another dachshund mix (she's like a quarter Chihuahua), but she's red with a slimmer beak and longer torso than my purebred. She's a runt, so her long belly is way more obvious than my slightly rounder pup. Luckily, her longer Chihuahua legs seem to support her spine. I get a lot of people, mostly kids, pointing at the mixed pup and yelling "weiner dog" and then asking what the other one is. I always thought it was funny since that one is the full "weiner dog," but these photos have made me realize how sad it actually is. My purebred has more characteristics of the before-dachshund, though like yours she has shorter legs, but it seems like the breed has evolved so much nobody recognizes her.

    A sad statistic in all of this is that due to their shorter legs and longer spines, one in five dachshunds will end up with disc disease (like mine). Many breeders will tell you it all comes down to weight management, but that really seems to increase the risk rather than cause it. Their builds are the real issue and I really am blown away to discover that their back issues aren't necessarily a "natural" problem for the breed. When my dog got sick in September, my vet was very surprised because she's a good weight and not long at all, but her short arms (like super stubby - her paw is against her chest when she offers it for a shake) were obviously unable to support even her unusually petite body. The saddest part was learning how few of those 20% of doxies with IVDD end up getting the surgery to correct it. My vet has been practicing for over fifteen years and worked in an office since she was 15 and she told me she had never seen a single owner that opted for the surgery. Not out of a lack of love, of course, as she told me this to assuage my own guilt at not being able to afford it, but because of its obscene price tag and most insurances refusing to cover it. She had only seen the surgery done as a student at the local university, which is one of three in the state where all dogs go to have it. She speculated that about one percent of IVDD dachshunds have surgery. Of the other 99%, more than half never walk again. Most of them are euthanized (usually the ones without bladder and bowel control, which devastates their quality of life) and the rest hopefully end up happily wheeling around in carts. Still, that breaks down to about 10% of the entire breed either dying or becoming paralyzed because of humans fucking with their physical make-up. It's sick.

    Not trying to sound soap-boxy, by the way. I'm actually completely surprised (and feeling quite ignorant) by what I've seen here. My limited knowledge of IVDD only compounds my shock. Does anyone have experience with the other breeds above? I've totally dachshund-ified the thread, but I know there are other dogs that have suffered from their breeds being tampered with.

    Also, I swear I'm working on being more succinct. Maybe I'll try to figure out Twitter again (without using Twitlonger to cheat this time).

    ETA: Your piebald picture didn't show for me earlier, Icepik. I want!!!! Both your furbabies are so gorgeous!

    Kat Scorp, was yours a black and tan or a red (not really red, but that's what we call them here) like Icepik's? In any case, the ones like Icepik's are the ones I'm used to seeing with the long faces, though I also had one growing up that looked more like Icepik's. My three black and tans had the short snouts, but I have seen a few with the snout like in the after picture above. My aunt has one now with very close-set eyes and a super long nose and body, but he is a bit of an anomaly where I'm from. I wonder if it is different here in the US, or even just my area. I'm in NJ and a lot of the dogs here are from puppy mills in Pennsylvania that sell to local pet shops. The "breeder" my dog was rescued from was actually a woman selling PA-supplied puppy mill dogs out of her house. After that got shut down, she went into the pet shop business with a partner and used her PA connections to pedal mill dogs legally. She eventually got shut down after a bunch of customers filed complaints that they bought sick animals. When the police got in the store the majority of the animals were dehydrated, malnourished, and infected with parasites. I think they were facing almost 30 counts of animal abuse. Of course they got off with a fine.

    ETA again: Laurent, it sounds like you are doing everything you can for your dog. A bad jump is really the main culprit when a disc ruptures, so that's pretty much all you can do to stop it from happening. I spend a lot of time in mortal fear of my recently mobile dog jumping off something before I can stop her, so I know how you feel. There's not a lot you can do to keep him safe, but there are things you can do to protect him in the event that he gets hurt. If he's had a lesion already (you mentioned back problems, it is disc disease?), maybe ask your vet about acupuncture and the antioxidant Tricox. Acupuncture can be used to restore nerve function immediately after a lesion, but also to maintain it in the event of another. My dog was getting treated once a week until she healed and now she goes every three months for maintenance. It's not a guarantee, but if she has another rupture those nerve pathways will already be exercised and will hopefully have a better shot at repairing themselves. Tricox is an antioxidant in treat form that helps with joint health by specifically targeting the coccyx where most ruptures happen. It goes by weight, but my dachshund gets half of one every other day and you get 120 for around fifty dollars, so it's pretty affordable. Think it has to be prescribed, though. I don't know the efficacy of all of this stuff since my dog only started it after breaking her back, but I do know it helps me feel better.

    This is the longest post ever, by the way, but I didn't want to double post or forget my train of thought waiting for a reply. I suck at life, but I swear I had consideration for board rules in mind!
    Last edited by manningmsj; January 18th, 2014 at 05:11 AM.
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    Elite Member Kat Scorp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manningmsj View Post

    A sad statistic in all of this is that due to their shorter legs and longer spines, one in five dachshunds will end up with disc disease (like mine). Many breeders will tell you it all comes down to weight management, but that really seems to increase the risk rather than cause it. Their builds are the real issue and I really am blown away to discover that their back issues aren't necessarily a "natural" problem for the breed.

    Kat Scorp, was yours a black and tan or a red (not really red, but that's what we call them here) like Icepik's?
    The breeders just don't want to acknowledge that the back problems are first being caused by their choice to breed longer and longer torsos into the doxies. The original long length of the doxies from a few centuries ago was to facilitate their hunting game in burrows (rabbit or badger, I don't remember). Their backs had to be long, yet strong enough, to get into the burrows and pull their quarry out. Now their back strength isn't needed for hunting and I believe the breeders are over-accentuating their torso length, but not accentuating the back strength needed to support that length.

    My doxie - Sir Henry Trunball - was tan (said so on his pedigree document) just like the pic Icepik posted that I quoted. But maybe that colour is called "red" where you are? Like a maroon bay horse is called "liver chesnut" in most places. Sir Henry could jump onto chairs and stand on his back legs; we were lucky his West Australian pedigree breeder bred him so well.

    Shit, I'm crying thinking about that little guy. He was put down 15 years ago (he was 16 yrs old) when his kidney failed one morning. Beaut dog; I miss him.
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    Elite Member sprynkles's Avatar
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    I have always wanted a german shepherd. Breeders have really done strange things to them. Their hind ends look deformed now. I know they have terrible hips problems. Poor things.

    Meryl doesn't even try anymore. She just calls Lanvin and asks for curtains with a belt.~Bitter
    Can we interest you in Leann Rimes? She has a nice little cadre of fans you'd probably enjoy.~ Pecan Pie

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