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Old August 21st, 2007, 05:37 AM   #16 (permalink)
MarieAntoinette
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I had some more time to read this in detail, and the first woman sounds extraordinarily bitter to me . She obviously made a bad personal choice, because she feels like her children ate her life, but I don't think this applies to everyone. And why did she get pregnant for a second time if she hated giving birth and breast-feeding so much? On the other hand she is sort of brutally honest and doesn't sugar-coat her situation, which should be appreciated too. However, she sounds a bit too cold and distant toward her own children, and it's not like she didn't have the choice.

The second one is like... tee heee...hurray, I can eat, eat, eat and play girly girl with my daughter.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 07:35 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarieAntoinette View Post

The second one is like... tee heee...hurray, I can eat, eat, eat and play girly girl with my daughter.
I know. After I read about the first woman, I thought she was such a mean, bitter bitch and I was all ready to side with the second woman, but I have to say, her reasons in favour of having children were not very convincing!
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Old August 21st, 2007, 07:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The second woman is a perfect illustration of one my fears of parenthood, or even being around parents-too many women choose to trade in their identity as a person and a woman in favour of being 'mummy'. Motherhood shouldn't be an excuse to let oneself go, or to stop being an individual or a sexual being. I pity her husband, really.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 09:22 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I kind of skimmed the second lady's part, but going back and looking at it, she is just...ugh. She is romanticizing life with children, like it's all lovey-dovey and fun and games. Couldn't they have gotten a lady with a more convincing argument?

I really don't like either of them.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 10:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Anyone who dares to be different and suggest that being child-free is the better option is vilified as immature or selfish.

It's a brave woman who will stand up for her right not to have children.
Agreed.

Nothing is more mind-numbingly boring than "mummy talk".
Also agreed.

Even though I have opted out of parenting for many of the reasons the first author states, I do feel sorry for her kids when they are made aware of the things she has said. I don't see how they can help but feel like mistakes or regrets that have no real value. It's sad. Not that I think parents need to go to the other popular extreme of 'motherhood is the closest thing to god and children are precious miracles and life with kids is all puppies and rainbows'. This lady just sounds really bitter and is a walking advertisement for why people should back the fuck off and stop pressuring women who say they don't want kids to have them anyway. Because 'you'll love it when it's here' and 'it's different when it's your own'. Those are not universal thruths and maybe some women out there who don't want kids but think they have to because 'it's what you do' will think twice and find the guts to be true to themselves.

I worked all day, and then came home to shopping, cooking, cleaning and hours of homework, and all so my kids could treat me like a maid. It was so boring.
Being a working mum is like being in prison, but there's no time off for good behaviour and no electronic tags you can wear for a brief trip back to the freedom you've given up for your offspring.


I cannot help but wonder how much sexist stereotypes and rigid gender roles have impacted her feelings. There are lots of men who want women to have a kid for them so they have pics to put up and work and can check off that little box on the life script. Then, mommy gets stuck with all the cunt work and has no time for herself while duddy keeps his weekly golf game and beer after work on Wed with his buddies. Society sets much higher expectations for women and a woman has to do a lot more (read: make a ton more personal sacrifices) to be considered a good mom, where a dad had to just be sober and bring home a check to be considered a good dad. I can see where women would be more resentful. It doesn't even feel validating to me to hear her say she envies my lifestyle because it's so sad for everyone involved that she feels that way. On the other hand, wasn't she allowing herself to be dumped with all the domestic stuff? Why couldn't her husband have done the dishes or laundry? Martyr much?


The second woman is a perfect illustration of one my fears of parenthood, or even being around parents-too many women choose to trade in their identity as a person and a woman in favour of being 'mummy'. Motherhood shouldn't be an excuse to let oneself go, or to stop being an individual or a sexual being. I pity her husband, really.
Aella: couldn't have siad it better. Why do so many dumb bitches seem to take pride in the fact that they have no identity outside of being somebody's mom or wife?
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Old August 21st, 2007, 11:22 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Wow. The second chick is all about food and letting herself go.
I don't have an "inner princess," but I'm still afraid of becoming her if I procreate. She is a better argument against childrearing; the other one is too extreme for me to take completely seriously, although I do think she makes several valid points.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 03:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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*hides belly.....again*


I can't believe the bs that comes out of both of their mouths. The first one is a selfish whore and the second one is pathetic. I'm just gonna be the average gal with a kid. These 2 women are beyond nutso.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 03:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Could it be that she is anti kid because she was teased as a child? I don't think much has changed in the looks department....
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Old August 21st, 2007, 04:08 PM   #24 (permalink)
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^^^^^The fat one who loves being a mom isn't any prize, either. And from the sound of it, she would be A-OK with her hubby never touching her again.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 04:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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What bullshit! I breastfed all my kids and it wasn't agony.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 04:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I am amazed what people will talk about to try to get press attention and money! Obviously the first woman just wants to sell her book, which cannot possibly be in any positive for her kids. I mean, if you think the pressures on mothers are too high, that's one thing, but to just write extreme and nasty stuff because the tabloids will publish it??? I hope no one buys her book. Ugh. I don't even know if I want children, but I certainly don't value HER opinion on the subject.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 05:25 PM   #27 (permalink)
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[quote=Honey;784273]A new book is causing a storm of controversy by labelling children as annoying and pointless - a charge made all the more inflammatory by the fact that its author is a mother. (I'd be more inclined to criticize if she weren't a mother, being that she wouldn't have any experience to speak from) Entitled No Kid: 40 Reasons Not To Have Children, Corinne Maier's book has sparked fury in France, where it was published.



Here, Corinne argues her "no kid" case while another mum, Ursula Hirschkorn, stands firm for parenthood.
Corinne Maier says children bring only pain, misery and expense (At least she can't blame her kids for having a looking like the witch from Hansel and Gretel. Yep, it all fits now. She hates kids, has a candy house....)


Corinne Maier, 43, a writer, who lives with her boyfriend Yves, 45, a psychiatrist, daughter Laure, 13, and son Cyrille, 10, in Brussels, argues her case.

Children are just too much work. They just aren't worth the hassle. Parents today are put under so much pressure to bring up perfect children, but what's the point? (Procreation?)

They are just walking problems to which you constantly have to find solutions. (Such is life)
The world is in the grip of baby mania, with celebrities flaunting their pregnant bellies in magazines, live births on TV and everyone demanding the right to have a baby at any cost.
To be a la mode, the must-have accessory is a baby.


If you can't make your own, then a whole business has sprung up to service your needs and now as long as you've got the cash, you can buy IVF, eggs, sperm or even children.

Anyone who dares to be different and suggest that being child-free is the better option is vilified as immature or selfish. (Since when?)

It's a brave woman who will stand up for her right not to have children. (...and an even braver woman still who will go so far as to suggest that woman who want to have children are crazy)

Let's start at the beginning with my first reason for being anti-children: labour is torture. (so is looking at your face, but it is an unavoidable part of life for most of us)

Even with anaesthetic it's the worst pain you'll ever feel. Anyone who tells you it will be a beautiful experience is lying. It's more like that scene from the film Alien, where the monster bursts from an astronaut's stomach. (Oh wow, calling people liars because they disagree, good move)

Then there's breastfeeding. Everyone tells you breast is best, but no one tells you it hurts like hell. If you opt out and bottle-feed you're made to feel guilty for "going against nature". (technically it is but I personally don't care what anyone else does or doesn't do with their boobs)

Get over these early hurdles and you hit the big one: how to keep your child amused and happy. (how about cracking a smile every once in a while, it might help)

This will fast become one of your most hated jobs. The moment you give birth you can forget leisurely lie-ins, last-minute trips or a spontaneous roll in the hay with your partner. (Where did this bitch get the memo that life is supposed to be 100% wonderful)

Instead, your weekends revolve around being woken at the crack of dawn to traipse around the zoo or watch minimum wage actors cavort in cartoon costumes at Disneyland; sitting through stupid kids' films and eating in "child friendly" restaurants. In my opinion this alone is reason enough not to have a child. (Some people actually find these things fun...)

But perhaps the weekends aren't so bad when you look at the monotony that is the life of a working mother.

Your career is on hold in a dull job, because it's the only way you can get out of work on time to pick up your children from school or take a day off when they get sick.

I stayed for years in a job that bored me - as an economist - just so I could get out early to pick my children up. (It really is a shame that public opinion has brainwashed her into getting knocked up and FORCING her to care about someone other than herself)

I worked all day, and then came home to shopping, cooking, cleaning and hours of homework, and all so my kids could treat me like a maid. It was so boring. (Here's a hint, don't let your kids treat you like a maid and teach them responsibility instead of blaming them for your own misery.)
Being a working mum is like being in prison, but there's no time off for good behaviour and no electronic tags you can wear for a brief trip back to the freedom you've given up for your offspring.

...




I found the hardest thing to give up when I had my children was my personal freedom. (...to be a bitter hateful woman? I guess not.)

There is no time left to be you any more. If I hadn't had them, I would have spent my money travelling the world. I could enjoy my money, rather than being stuck at home waking them up every day in time for school. (well, maybe you should of thought of this before you spread your legs, dumbass. What the fuck did you think parenthood was going to be?)

Once you have children, there is no space for spontaneity any more. We tried to go to an art exhibition last weekend which we'd been looking forward to for ages, but we had to take the kids along and they hate art. (so? tell them to STFU?)


They whined so much that we gave up and left without seeing anything. (That is where this thing called discipline comes in)

If you thought your friends would help you get through parenthood, then you've got another thing coming. When your friends have children, conversation shrinks to how "Oscar's using the potty now" or "Alice slept the whole night".

Nothing is more mind-numbingly boring than "mummy talk".

Make no mistake, bringing up children is war, and you're on the losing side.


Every time you plan a little escape they will undermine you. Just as you are off to bed with your partner, they'll throw up; the one night you book a babysitter they'll come down with a fever; on your birthday they'll throw a tantrum as you're stepping out of the door - you just can't win. (God forbid that your kids get sick and your forced to care for them!)

Perhaps this is why children are such effective passion killers. Take my advice, if you want to stay together, avoid baby-making.

What hope is there of a fulfilling sex life when a woman is forced to turn into a fat, deformed animal decked out in sack-like dresses? (Don't assume that just because you're a JBF, everyone else is)

Far from the beautiful images on the front of magazines, the ugly reality usually means a long cold spell between the sheets. (Possibly because you don't wipe the scowl from your face EVER or take showers?)


Even once the baby is born, nights punctuated by feeds and a crying baby leave you so exhausted that any thawing in that department is a long way off.

As you bid adieu to your sex life, your relationship is quick to follow. You go from being a couple to being Mummy and Daddy.

Your job as a parent comes first, and the romance in your lives is replaced by DIY and dusting.

Now, my boyfriend Yves and I are parents first and a couple second. Our relationship hasn't been the same since we had children and I miss the romance.


Of course, millions of parents will read this and get all defensive and think that it's all worth it because those angels of theirs are sweethearts. But they're not: they're little savages.
Is your child an angel or a savage?



Just think back to your own childhood - the playground was a bear
pit where children were bullied and toys stolen.

Things haven't changed and little children are just as unpleasant and annoying as they ever were, except that as a parent you're not even allowed to fight back now.

I was in the library with my son when he was younger and he was playing up. He was getting on my nerves and annoying everyone, so I gave him a slap to make him behave, but then everyone looked at me as if I were a bad mother. (Maybe because you have NO IDEA how to be a mother)


Modern parents' hands are tied. While there is pressure to produce perfect children, you no longer have any power to say no to them, so you're more likely to produce perfect brats. (Plenty of people produce perfectly lovely children.)

Sometimes a slap is the only way to explain something to a child.

If you've disagreed with me up to this point and you still think you can cope with the emotional cost of a child, then perhaps you should consider the financial one.
Kids cost a fortune. First the family car and the house, then there's basics like food and clothes, and that's before they start pestering you for the latest toy. (traveling costs a lot of money too...)


A lot of people decide to have children to build a family around themselves, as a refuge from the world so they won't be lonely and will be loved for who they are.

Certainly, I often wonder why I had children. I think it was because I am an only child I thought I would be less alone if I had a family. Now I've learned that being in a family can bring a new kind of loneliness.

People often ask me what my children think of the book, but they don't give a damn.

They live in their own world and I live in mine. I would never give my daughter advice on whether she should have children. I don't care if I have grandchildren or not, but I know that if I do, I don't want to look after them too often. (Your kids are so going to go Menendez on your ass)


The idea of a cosy picture postcard family is fantasy and the whole "loving family gathered around the Christmas tree" image is a lie.

More murders and child abuse happen within families than outside them - every family is a nest of vipers: all the more reason not to add to your own.
(Funny because this is a lot like emotional abuse to your children)

Even if you are savvy enough to realise that having children won't add up to having the perfect family, another parent trap is believing that it's OK to put off your dreams in the hope that your kids will fulfil them.

But if you have no children you are free to make your own dreams come true now, surely a more attractive option.


If you can't bring yourself to give up on the idea of children as your future, what future do you see for them?

Financial and job security are things of the past, housing is beyond expensive, the planet is suffering from over-population - do you still think it's such a good idea to bring yet another baby into this world?

They could end up being your problem for the rest of your life. What a prospect.

Instead of pitying the child-free, we should be envying them, I know I do. Because as a mother-of-two I know better than most why having children is a big mistake.


This woman is absolutely disgusting. I am more than happy to celebrate any person's right to choose whatever life they want for themselves, but just because this woman chose WRONG doesn't mean she should attempt to completely undermine motherhood.

I feel awful for her kids, they'd be better off with someone else.

I haven't even gotten to the second chick yet but from what it looks like she's at the opposite end of the BS spectrum.
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Last edited by WitchHazelEyed : August 21st, 2007 at 09:36 PM.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 05:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
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For some people, their own misery is their precious "baby" and they wouldn't know what to do without having it in their lives to nurture. Hey, "Stress-Lady": How's about growing a set (assuming she doesn't already have one, by the physical look of her), raising your kids the way you and your own common sense see fit and telling everyone else to fuck straight off for a change?
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Old August 21st, 2007, 07:55 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Witch Hazel Eyed - PLEASE PLEASE do the other woman!!! That was awesome. I couldn't stand to read it the first time but it's much easier seeing those mean remarks in red at the end, hahahahah!

I don't think her Mother's Day present will be very good next year...
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Old August 21st, 2007, 08:15 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Possibly because you don't wipe the scowl from your face EVER or take showers?
OMG, the shower bit made me laugh. So random and hilarious!
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