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Old August 20th, 2007, 05:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
Honey
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Default "Children bring only pain, misery and expense"

A new book is causing a storm of controversy by labelling children as annoying and pointless - a charge made all the more inflammatory by the fact that its author is a mother. Entitled No Kid: 40 Reasons Not To Have Children, Corinne Maier's book has sparked fury in France, where it was published.



Here, Corinne argues her "no kid" case while another mum, Ursula Hirschkorn, stands firm for parenthood.
Corinne Maier says children bring only pain, misery and expense


Corinne Maier, 43, a writer, who lives with her boyfriend Yves, 45, a psychiatrist, daughter Laure, 13, and son Cyrille, 10, in Brussels, argues her case.

Children are just too much work. They just aren't worth the hassle. Parents today are put under so much pressure to bring up perfect children, but what's the point?

They are just walking problems to which you constantly have to find solutions.
The world is in the grip of baby mania, with celebrities flaunting their pregnant bellies in magazines, live births on TV and everyone demanding the right to have a baby at any cost.
To be a la mode, the must-have accessory is a baby.


If you can't make your own, then a whole business has sprung up to service your needs and now as long as you've got the cash, you can buy IVF, eggs, sperm or even children.

Anyone who dares to be different and suggest that being child-free is the better option is vilified as immature or selfish.

It's a brave woman who will stand up for her right not to have children.

Let's start at the beginning with my first reason for being anti-children: labour is torture.

Even with anaesthetic it's the worst pain you'll ever feel. Anyone who tells you it will be a beautiful experience is lying. It's more like that scene from the film Alien, where the monster bursts from an astronaut's stomach.

Then there's breastfeeding. Everyone tells you breast is best, but no one tells you it hurts like hell. If you opt out and bottle-feed you're made to feel guilty for "going against nature".

Get over these early hurdles and you hit the big one: how to keep your child amused and happy.

This will fast become one of your most hated jobs. The moment you give birth you can forget leisurely lie-ins, last-minute trips or a spontaneous roll in the hay with your partner.

Instead, your weekends revolve around being woken at the crack of dawn to traipse around the zoo or watch minimum wage actors cavort in cartoon costumes at Disneyland; sitting through stupid kids' films and eating in "child friendly" restaurants. In my opinion this alone is reason enough not to have a child.

But perhaps the weekends aren't so bad when you look at the monotony that is the life of a working mother.

Your career is on hold in a dull job, because it's the only way you can get out of work on time to pick up your children from school or take a day off when they get sick.

I stayed for years in a job that bored me - as an economist - just so I could get out early to pick my children up.

I worked all day, and then came home to shopping, cooking, cleaning and hours of homework, and all so my kids could treat me like a maid. It was so boring.
Being a working mum is like being in prison, but there's no time off for good behaviour and no electronic tags you can wear for a brief trip back to the freedom you've given up for your offspring.

...




I found the hardest thing to give up when I had my children was my personal freedom.

There is no time left to be you any more. If I hadn't had them, I would have spent my money travelling the world. I could enjoy my money, rather than being stuck at home waking them up every day in time for school.

Once you have children, there is no space for spontaneity any more. We tried to go to an art exhibition last weekend which we'd been looking forward to for ages, but we had to take the kids along and they hate art.


They whined so much that we gave up and left without seeing anything.

If you thought your friends would help you get through parenthood, then you've got another thing coming. When your friends have children, conversation shrinks to how "Oscar's using the potty now" or "Alice slept the whole night".

Nothing is more mind-numbingly boring than "mummy talk".

Make no mistake, bringing up children is war, and you're on the losing side.


Every time you plan a little escape they will undermine you. Just as you are off to bed with your partner, they'll throw up; the one night you book a babysitter they'll come down with a fever; on your birthday they'll throw a tantrum as you're stepping out of the door - you just can't win.

Perhaps this is why children are such effective passion killers. Take my advice, if you want to stay together, avoid baby-making.

What hope is there of a fulfilling sex life when a woman is forced to turn into a fat, deformed animal decked out in sack-like dresses?

Far from the beautiful images on the front of magazines, the ugly reality usually means a long cold spell between the sheets.


Even once the baby is born, nights punctuated by feeds and a crying baby leave you so exhausted that any thawing in that department is a long way off.

As you bid adieu to your sex life, your relationship is quick to follow. You go from being a couple to being Mummy and Daddy.

Your job as a parent comes first, and the romance in your lives is replaced by DIY and dusting.

Now, my boyfriend Yves and I are parents first and a couple second. Our relationship hasn't been the same since we had children and I miss the romance.


Of course, millions of parents will read this and get all defensive and think that it's all worth it because those angels of theirs are sweethearts. But they're not: they're little savages.
Is your child an angel or a savage?



Just think back to your own childhood - the playground was a bear
pit where children were bullied and toys stolen.

Things haven't changed and little children are just as unpleasant and annoying as they ever were, except that as a parent you're not even allowed to fight back now.

I was in the library with my son when he was younger and he was playing up. He was getting on my nerves and annoying everyone, so I gave him a slap to make him behave, but then everyone looked at me as if I were a bad mother.


Modern parents' hands are tied. While there is pressure to produce perfect children, you no longer have any power to say no to them, so you're more likely to produce perfect brats.

Sometimes a slap is the only way to explain something to a child.

If you've disagreed with me up to this point and you still think you can cope with the emotional cost of a child, then perhaps you should consider the financial one.
Kids cost a fortune. First the family car and the house, then there's basics like food and clothes, and that's before they start pestering you for the latest toy.


A lot of people decide to have children to build a family around themselves, as a refuge from the world so they won't be lonely and will be loved for who they are.

Certainly, I often wonder why I had children. I think it was because I am an only child I thought I would be less alone if I had a family. Now I've learned that being in a family can bring a new kind of loneliness.

People often ask me what my children think of the book, but they don't give a damn.

They live in their own world and I live in mine. I would never give my daughter advice on whether she should have children. I don't care if I have grandchildren or not, but I know that if I do, I don't want to look after them too often.


The idea of a cosy picture postcard family is fantasy and the whole "loving family gathered around the Christmas tree" image is a lie.

More murders and child abuse happen within families than outside them - every family is a nest of vipers: all the more reason not to add to your own.

Even if you are savvy enough to realise that having children won't add up to having the perfect family, another parent trap is believing that it's OK to put off your dreams in the hope that your kids will fulfil them.

But if you have no children you are free to make your own dreams come true now, surely a more attractive option.


If you can't bring yourself to give up on the idea of children as your future, what future do you see for them?

Financial and job security are things of the past, housing is beyond expensive, the planet is suffering from over-population - do you still think it's such a good idea to bring yet another baby into this world?

They could end up being your problem for the rest of your life. What a prospect.

Instead of pitying the child-free, we should be envying them, I know I do. Because as a mother-of-two I know better than most why having children is a big mistake.


Ursula Hirschkorn says becoming a parent makes you less selfish


Ursula Hirschkorn, 35, lives with her husband Mike and their two sons, Jacob, three and Max, one. She says:


So Corinne Maier thinks motherhood gets too much good press - but I beg to differ.

I think most mums are only too happy to regale their scared single friends with tales of stretch marks, sleepless nights and sex-free relationships, if only to elicit a bit of sympathy.

I think most women go out of their way not to drone on and on about their children, especially when they're with friends who don't have a family.

To be honest, though, in the face of this vitriolic attack on the lifestyle I've chosen, I say to hell with other people's feelings.
I think the real secret of motherhood is that for all our griping about loss of personal freedom, dead-end careers and endless rounds of nappy-changing, being a mother is the best and most important job in the world.
As soon as you get pregnant, you finally realise the point of all those years of dealing with budding boobs and annoying periods.


As you body swells up with potential, you finally have a legitimate reason to spend hours drooling over baby clothes and the latest prams.

And you start to get what this baby-making business is all about.

Now I know that not all pregnancies are as rosy as mine, which were a round of cat naps and guilt-free chocolate scoffing, but the end result makes it all worthwhile even if you've spent nine months fighting morning sickness.
The moment you look your baby in the eye, you know a love like no other you will ever feel. Your feelings for your newborn baby are the very definition of unconditional love.

They are the cutest thing you've ever seen, even as newborns when they are slicked in blood and look like Winston Churchill (all new babies do).


Now I won't lie - yes, the early months are hard, but then doesn't anything worth having take a bit of hard work and self-sacrifice?
One of my most cherished memories is of a night feed with my son Jacob when he was all of two months old. I plucked him screaming and red-faced from his cot, and started to feed him his milk.

After a few moments, he pulled away from his bottle, looked up at me and gave me his first, beautifully gummy smile.

I've never felt being up at 2am was so worthwhile - even when I was dancing away at some nightclub in my youth.

I remember reading when I was pregnant that once you have a child you will never be bored again.


I was sceptical to say the least. In my experience, babies were grand masters at doing nothing, in between bouts of banshee screaming, but that was before I had my own to play with.

Even watching Jacob sleep held its own fascination, and when he started to do really interesting things such as eat solids, roll, crawl, walk, talk and boss me about, well that was when things really got fun.

My husband would come home from work and our entire dinner conversation would be about the milestones Jacob had reached, no matter how infinitesimal.





Parents know their world shrinks when children come along. They are painfully aware they are missing out on films and plays and boozy nights out.

But isn't that what your 20s are for? Do you really want to go on living the same way until you're 50?

The truth is that becoming a parent makes you less selfish - it forces you to devote yourself to another being more than to yourself.

It allows you to experience the joys and challenges of that little person's life as they live it.


And it lets you reconnect with your own childhood by reliving the excitement of discovering the world all over again.
The first time my son Jacob kissed me and told me he loved me, it beat all my previous romantic trysts into a cocked hat.

When I was a new mum to Jacob, I remember saying to my husband that if I were to die then that it wouldn't matter so much because I had done the best thing I ever could in having my son.

These are the moments that I will remember and savour when I am old: watching the boys put on a show, complete with my posh make-up smeared all over their faces, beaming as we clap their tiny achievements; my three-year-old boy genius asking me if we could come to a "compromise" about his excessive lolly consumption; my beautiful little baby boy pointing out the "tittomotamus" (read hippopotamus) at Disneyworld.

I certainly won't be thinking about how well a particular business meeting went or how many times I went to the cinema.
And that to me is the best argument for motherhood there could be.

Angels or savages - who would have children? | the Daily Mail
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Old August 20th, 2007, 06:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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No way in hell is Corinne Maier a woman. Nope. Man in drag.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 06:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Her kids must feel loved and wanted! That bitch should have kept her nasty thoughts to herself instead of writing a book. Well der, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that having kids changes your life.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 06:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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What a terrible thing for a parent to do. Corinne's children are old enough to feel the sting of her hurtful words. She doesn't deserve children. I respect people's decisions to not have children if they feel they are not cut out for it. In fact there are too many people who have them when they shouldn't. But to have them and then publicly state that you wish you had never had them is apalling to me.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 06:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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hah! i knew it!

still, stupid twit shouldn't have gotten knocked up. Don't bitch about it after, you stupid slag.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 07:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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why the hell did she have children if she thinks like that?? what a bitch
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Old August 20th, 2007, 08:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well she definitely shouldn't have had kids, that first lady. But now that she has them what's the use in complaining? It's only good for potentially hurting her kids if it makes them feel unwanted or a burden--how mean and selfish of her.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 08:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I don't think everyone is cut out for having children-at all. And we are over poputated!
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Old August 20th, 2007, 09:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ummm, why did she have two kids. I understand having one, and then not liking it, but why spread your legs to have the second then? Can you say bloody idiot who has just removed all her credibility. And lets see, slapping your kid to make them more quiet in a library, seems like that would do the opposite.

Having kids is hard work, you have to be dedicated and you ideally should be ready to enjoy the rewards, they're not monetary and not always immediate, and no one is going to give you a medal if your kid behaves in a restaurant, but for myself this is perhaps the most fun and rewarding job-however the most tiring that I've had.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 10:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Breastfeeding is not agony. And that is the tip of the iceberg on what I could say about this.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 10:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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That first woman is incredibly stupid and selfish. If she hates the idea of having kids, then why the hell does she have TWO??

I can understand not wanting kids, and don't think people should feel pressured to procreate, but since this lady actually has children of her own, she shouldn't have ever written that. Way to make your children feel horrible and unloved.

Isn't that Usula lady the one who wrote an article about hating the fact that she had a supermodel for a sister-in-law?

ETA: And this lady talks about how all her children do is whine? Well, look who they learned from.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 01:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I don't know what to say about that article, I certainly don't want children, but I can see why others might, but because of that stuff about embracing your inner princess and dress your daughter up in fairy wings and tutus I almost spit out my coffee. Yeah, that sure is the one big significant reason why people should have kids, oh dear .
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Old August 21st, 2007, 03:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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i'm more annoyed by the second woman. what a brainless cow. and could her article be more full of stupid clichés and platitudes? 'mums who have a girl, can indulge their inner princess'??? 'mo matter how rough you look, your children always think you're beautiful'???? 'pregnancy is a guilt-free excuse to gorge on chocolate'???? (well it obviously is if you have no plans to lose the weight after, which seems to be this lady's case). and never mind the cooking for children part, unless you like the same crap kids do. and the showstopper is the whole it doesn't matter if you and your husband never shag again because your kids are around to cuddle all day. WTF?!? she's the one defending parents but it's her article that is totally putting me off breeding, mroe than the angry french chick .

yeah the first one is bitchy for saying that when she already has 2 kids but deep down i also think she's right and i think she says what a lot of women think but never say - i think more women realise too late that maybe they weren't cut out for kids. i don't think it makes them horrible people, and most cope with it the best they can and are decent parents. it's kind of refreshing that she has the guts to say it.
i totally agree with her that kids are little savages. i never bought that whole 'man is born innocent, it's society that corrupts him' crap. au contraire, we're all born savages and society teaches us to repress those urges and act civilised. i forget who it is that said the zenith of human cruelty is at age 10. they were right.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 03:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
i'm more annoyed by the second woman. what a brainless cow. and could her article be more full of stupid clichés and platitudes? 'mums who have a girl, can indulge their inner princess'??? 'mo matter how rough you look, your children always think you're beautiful'???? 'pregnancy is a guilt-free excuse to gorge on chocolate'???? (well it obviously is if you have no plans to lose the weight after, which seems to be this lady's case). and never mind the cooking for children part, unless you like the same crap kids do. and the showstopper is the whole it doesn't matter if you and your husband never shag again because your kids are around to cuddle all day. WTF?!? she's the one defending parents but it's her article that is totally putting me off breeding, mroe than the angry french chick .

yeah the first one is bitchy for saying that when she already has 2 kids but deep down i also think she's right and i think she says what a lot of women think but never say - i think more women realise too late that maybe they weren't cut out for kids. i don't think it makes them horrible people, and most cope with it the best they can and are decent parents. it's kind of refreshing that she has the guts to say it.
i totally agree with her that kids are little savages. i never bought that whole 'man is born innocent, it's society that corrupts him' crap. au contraire, we're all born savages and society teaches us to repress those urges and act civilised. i forget who it is that said the zenith of human cruelty is at age 10. they were right.
Ha, I agree with you on both counts. The chubby chick does indeed sound lobotomized-my one consolation is that she probably was a brainless twit even before she bred.

And while it's extremely mean for someone who already has two kids to express such sentiments, some of the points she makes is valid (at least judging from my own observations of women around me who underwent changes after breeding), and should at least give people pause and make them think before they decide to procreate, rather than just have kids because it's the default.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 04:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
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They are both twits.

The first woman really annoyed me. You don't get to be childfree after the fact, honey. Shut up and deal with it.
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