Shooting at Ft. Hood Army Base kills 7, 12 wounded...

[Kathie_Moffett]

Originally Posted by celeb_2006

Looks like he didn't want to deploy.

Seems like his family is playing up the 'muslim harrassment' angle as if it's some form of "legit excuse" for him 'snapping.' If anything I'm more inclined towards some form of ribbing as per McJag above, and if he was outspoken as per Wiseguy's post above, then I have no sympathies at all.

Again looks like another one that had no qualms about having the government pick up his tab for his education and training, but when it came time to deploy, looked for an easy way out.

As we speak Dateline and company are probably drooling at the aspect of getting the first interview of this character as soon as he is stable in the hospital. 1000 percent positive his first statements are about being oh so horribly 'discriminated against' for being muslim so he snapped.

So predictable.

*bolded above....I think you're exactly right. I'm sure he's not the only enlisted individual to throw a shit fit about having to actually pay up for what he'd received--he's just the craziest one.

Originally Posted by McJag

Even the muslin chaplin interviewed on Nightline last night didn't pick up on it. Again-Majors do not get harrassed! He could have them thrown in jail. The chaplin spoke of gentle teasing,as they all get. Like Baptist can't drink,Muslims can't eat pork,etc. This guy just plain snapped and I feel so bad for his Mother.

I hear ya. I think a lot of people do not understand how the command structure in the military works. This guy was not a foot soldier, he was an officer. There's a big limit on how much shit he could possibly have been getting. You do NOT "harass" your superior officers. And if higher-ups had doubts about him BECAUSE of his dubious behavior record, to an individual with his obvious long-term mental issues this would, no doubt, have FELT like persecution.

I think this guy's train went off the tracks a LONG time ago. I also think a lot of heads are going to roll that he was not gently ejected from the military before this. THAT is the real scandal here, to me. WTF? Did he "have something" on someone in power lol? Why the hell was he still in the service? Duh.

Originally Posted by olivia

Anyone else reveling in the fact that this Extremist peice-of-crap was downed by a woman?

Ain't nothing worse for a radical Muslim man than getting beat up by a chick.

That is the FIRST thing I said when that info came out. My husband and I both think it's just awesome. On all levels. Husband's an ex-cop and the discrimination against women on the force always bothered him a lot. He loves it when women cops really knock one out of the park like this, in large part because it really shows up the jerks who diss and harass them.

Interestingly--he was a homicide investigator for 15 plus years--he also said from the beginning of the coverage that "this looks like the work of a lone kook".

Although of course we did have to have a half-joke about "The Manchurian Candidate"...sort of required, at this crazy point in history. I'm sure the conspiracy theorists all over that like a cheap suit, or whatever that phrase is!

ETA: the news report I just watched said that that cop was just nearby doing traffic control when the whole thing went down; she wasn't even SWAT or anything like that. But she heard the shooting and basically headed straight in and fucking confronted him. Wow.

[crumpet]

Originally Posted by kingcap72

But what would Obama's past 'radical' associations have to do with this current tragedy? That's the part that didn't make sense.

And Columbine, Oklahoma City and the abortion clinic/doctor murders in the 90's didn't reflect on Clinton's ability to protect against terrorists attacks and those incidents were all domestic terrorism. No president, no matter who they are, is responsible for the crazy actions of ordinary American citizens.

I wasn't trying to say it would be a rational reaction, and you are right about Clinton and Oklahoma City. Just that people really, really want to blame someone when a person does something like this, and if it is deemed an act of terrorism per se, the government would get targeted for not keeping people safe, and his associations with people who are considered to be far left may make it easy for someone to accuse the administration of being perceived as weak by terrorists (thus emboldening them).

Although we now know more about this, and we keep learning more all the time.

[McJag]

The girl's parents interviewed last night said she was on her way into surgery and was just plain mad! He does seem to have gone after at least 3 females. I am so proud of that lady cop (still in stable condition) that brought him down.

[crumpet]

Originally Posted by Grimmlok

He's not dead, one of the first responders shot him, he shot her, they're both out of surgery and stable.

Apparently, he was being harassed and bullied for being a muslim, and was trying to get out of the army because the environment had become too hostile.

Looks like he finally lost his shit. I hope he shot his tormenters.

You know, he says he was targeted and bullied 'for being Muslim', but it is just as possible that he was going around making statements that villified the American troops and sympathized with the 'enemy forces' which would also get you targeted, and rightly so. If you are on my team and supposed ot have my back I sure as hell don't want to hear you mouthing off about how awful our team is and how the other team is right. It poses a direct threat to my survival and makes you look like a traitor. Maybe he didn't want to be deployed and kill other Muslims for all we know. If so, fuck him for that. The military is voluntary and you don't get to sign up, reap all the benefits they offer, then cherry pick which jobs you want to do.

For anyone who thinks someone who voluntarily joins the military has a right to object to fighting for any reason (has a moral opposition), you should also agree that a pharmacist has a right to refuse to do part of his/her job if it is something they morally object to. It's no different: you signed up to do a job and other people depend on you to do what you agreed to. If you can't perform all of your duties, find another line of work.

[kingcap72]

Originally Posted by crumpet

I wasn't trying to say it would be a rational reaction, and you are right about Clinton and Oklahoma City. Just that people really, really want to blame someone when a person does something like this, and if it is deemed an act of terrorism per se, the government would get targeted for not keeping people safe, and his associations with people who are considered to be far left may make it easy for someone to accuse the administration of being perceived as weak by terrorists (thus emboldening them).

Although we now know more about this, and we keep learning more all the time.

But that still doesn't explain why Obama's past 'radical' associations would come into play. The majority of the terrorists who attacked on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, but neither Dubya, or his father's, past/current associations with the Saudi Arabian royal family reflected on them in the days and weeks following 9/11. The people that try to tie this to Obama would do it only because he has a Muslim name and the shooter had a Muslim name.

In fact, Oklahoma City, Columbine, and the abortion killings were all acts of domestic terrorism. The Virginia Tech shootings were an act of domestic terrorism, too. And so was Dr. Tiller's murder and the Holocaust Museum shooting. But those aren't considered 'true terrorism' because the people involved weren't brown with Muslim-sounding names.

Now, Dubya was blamed for 9/11 because he didn't take the intel seriously. Now, the Fort Hood tragedy is an act of domestic terrorism & if it turns out to that Obama had advanced intel on it but he ignored it, then he deserves the blame and then some.

[january]

Originally Posted by crumpet

You know, he says he was targeted and bullied 'for being Muslim', but it is just as possible that he was going around making statements that villified the American troops and sympathized with the 'enemy forces' which would also get you targeted, and rightly so. If you are on my team and supposed ot have my back I sure as hell don't want to hear you mouthing off about how awful our team is and how the other team is right. It poses a direct threat to my survival and makes you look like a traitor. Maybe he didn't want to be deployed and kill other Muslims for all we know. If so, fuck him for that. The military is voluntary and you don't get to sign up, reap all the benefits they offer, then cherry pick which jobs you want to do.

For anyone who thinks someone who voluntarily joins the military has a right to object to fighting for any reason (has a moral opposition), you should also agree that a pharmacist has a right to refuse to do part of his/her job if it is something they morally object to. It's no different: you signed up to do a job and other people depend on you to do what you agreed to. If you can't perform all of your duties, find another line of work.

Great post, I agree completely.

I don't think he was openly harassed, although there may have been some subtle racist undertones at play. But most religious extremists often feel like they are "persecuted" even if there is a blase remark thrown their way. I don't doubt that a lot of Muslims get harassed in their workspace (my husband had an awful, awful experience at his old job in the Midwest - he was called a "sand n*gger and referred to as "Osama" and they posted a picture of Osama bin Laden on his cubicle after his two "Christian" coworkers found out he was a Muslim when he refrained from eating a bacon pizza) but the Army is a different monster. He was a major so I doubt that it was to the extent he claimed.

Someone else pointed out the linguist thing, and the Army is desperate for arabic speakers. They offered my husband close to $200,000 a year to sign up - he declined because he has a fantastic job, and I told him NO. Basically they aren't willing to pay that much unless its a very dangerous vocation, I think. So they maybe did overlook this guys issues because they were short on translators, possibly, like was suggested.

Its no doubt that this guy has a few screws loose - there is no doubt that the religious fanaticism was fueled by that - any religious extremist isn't in the right mind to begin with so who knows what could happen. It seems to me that he just didn't want to be deployed and rationalized it in his head - that he was being persecuted for a cause he didn't believe in and somehow we became the "enemies". The whole thing mentioned before about the "72 virgins" is just weird. This must be just a made up religious extremist dogma and became somewhat pervasive or sensationalized in our media. My husband doesn't know where that came from and he told me, its obviously misognystic and disgusting - not sure how that came into existence. I don't know if "martyrs" (ugh, I hate that term) really believe that or not. This guy just went crazy and snapped.

Of course the Freepers are happy. They've made comments on the board before about how they wish more people had died in various attacks so more people would understand how bad Muslims are. They actually seem to cheer when things like this happen and its a Muslim, and then they get to spew more of their hate towards Arabs and feel justified. Its a fanatic, racist, hateful board full of fanatical Christians who think they are somehow "better" than fanatical Muslims - its the worst that I've ever had the displeasure of perusing.

[greysfang]

Ufda, I just heard that one of the casualties was pregnant. So sad.

[Wiseguy]

Originally Posted by crumpet

You know, he says he was targeted and bullied 'for being Muslim', but it is just as possible that he was going around making statements that villified the American troops and sympathized with the 'enemy forces' which would also get you targeted, and rightly so. If you are on my team and supposed ot have my back I sure as hell don't want to hear you mouthing off about how awful our team is and how the other team is right. It poses a direct threat to my survival and makes you look like a traitor. Maybe he didn't want to be deployed and kill other Muslims for all we know. If so, fuck him for that. The military is voluntary and you don't get to sign up, reap all the benefits they offer, then cherry pick which jobs you want to do.

For anyone who thinks someone who voluntarily joins the military has a right to object to fighting for any reason (has a moral opposition), you should also agree that a pharmacist has a right to refuse to do part of his/her job if it is something they morally object to. It's no different: you signed up to do a job and other people depend on you to do what you agreed to. If you can't perform all of your duties, find another line of work.

Excellent post. This guy is not the victim. The people he shot are the victims.

January, as for the 72 virgins idea, it is repeated so often in media stories (probably since 9/11 ??) that a lot of people accept it as fact. It did a google search and the word "myth" appears a lot. However, I did find this, which is not about 72 virgins, but 72 wives:

Sunan al-Tirmidhi Hadith 2562 says:
The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: “The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana’a [Yemen]“

From what this same website says, martyrdom in war for an Islamic cause is praised extensively in the Hadith and is also refernced in the Quran.

Debunking the ‘Suicide for 72 Virgins’ Myth « The Ugly Truth

I just did another search, and virgins as a reward in paradise are mentioned a lot in the Quran as well.

[katerpillar]

Sounds to me like this is just one headcase who cracked and went on a spree killing. I think this dude says it best:

“When a white guy shoots up a post office, they call that going postal,” said Victor Benjamin II, 30, a former member of the Army. “But when a Muslim does it, they call it jihad."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/us/07muslim.html

So sad. I feel terrible for those who died and for their loved ones.

Also - go Sergeant Munley! Apparently she's just 5'2", and charged him without backup. What a badass. I hope she's awarded every kind of bravery medal that she can get.

[McJag]

Originally Posted by katerpillar

Sounds to me like this is just one headcase who cracked and went on a spree killing. I think this dude says it best:



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/us/07muslim.html

So sad. I feel terrible for those who died and for their loved ones.

Also - go Sergeant Munley! Apparently she's just 5'2", and charged him without backup. What a badass. I hope she's awarded every kind of bravery medal that she can get.

And to think,she is the Mother of a 3 year old! I like to think we have some of that same kind of woman ,right on here. I could see Lynnie or Lola doing the same thing,with guns blazing. Butt too,except for the pacifist thing. Mel & Shedevil,without a doubt. Mel/tiara/guns. Only in Texas.

[celeb_2006]

Some predicted trouble from Fort Hood's Maj. Hasan - Yahoo! News
has never committed an act of violence and was always known to be a good, law-abiding citizen."
Still, in the days since authorities believe Hasan fired more than 100 rounds in a soldier processing center at Fort Hood in the worst mass shooting on a military facility in the U.S., a picture has emerged of a man who was forcefully opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, was trying to elude his pending deployment to Afghanistan and had struggled professionally in his work as an Army psychiatrist.
"I told him, `There's something wrong with you,'" Osman Danquah, co-founder of the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen, told The Associated Press on Saturday. "I didn't get the feeling he was talking for himself, but something just didn't seem right."
Danquah assumed the military's chain of command knew about Hasan's doubts, which had been known for more than a year to classmates at the Maryland graduate military medical program. His fellow students complained to the faculty about Hasan's "anti-American propaganda," but said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim student kept officers from filing a formal complaint.

[kingcap72]

His fellow students complained to the faculty about Hasan's "anti-American propaganda," but said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim student kept officers from filing a formal complaint.

So, political correctness got in the way. Figures.

But, then again, in America we have this image that the only real terrorists are Arab/Arab-looking and Muslim. That image has only gotten worse since 9/11. I wonder how many people didn't even let the thought of terrorism cross their minds with Fort Hood until they heard the shooter was an Arab? The shooting was an act of terrorism, regardless of the shooter's race.

America will never be able to effectively fight against terrorism if the government, the media and the people keep assuming that only one small segment of the population is capable of being terrorists. Because terrorists come in ANY race, gender and from any religious background.

[A*O]

Plenty of Americans actively supported and funded the IRA terrorists during the Troubles in Northern Ireland during the 70s, 80s and early 90s. But that's different apparently.

[McJag]

Originally Posted by A*O

Plenty of Americans actively supported and funded the IRA terrorists during the Troubles in Northern Ireland during the 70s, 80s and early 90s. But that's different apparently.

So-are you saying we deserve this? Plenty of Americans probably steal beer from stores daily-that doesn't make it right. Nor do the vast majority of Americans support that idea. Low blow,A*O.

[celeb_2006]

Army chaplain seeks prayers for meaning in rampage - Yahoo! News-


Mourners were asked to pray for the man authorities say went on a shooting spree at Fort Hood, and an Army chaplain exhorted his congregation on Sunday to draw together even if the gunman's motives may never be fully known.
"Lord, all those around us search for motive, search for meaning, search for something, someone to blame. That is so frustrating," Col. Frank Jackson told a group of about 120 people gathered at the post's chapel. "Today, we pause to hear from you. So Lord, as we pray together, we focus on things we know."
Worshippers hugged each other and raised their hands in prayer during the service, in which Jackson asked the congregation to pray for the 13 dead and 29 wounded that Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan is accused of shooting. The chaplain also urged the crowd to pray for Hasan and his family "as they find themselves in a position that no person ever desires to be."
"And Lord, teach us to love and pray for those who rise up against us and pray for those who do us harm. We pray for Maj. Hasan. Asking that you do the work that only you can do in his life," Jackson said.