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Thread: Richard III: skeleton found under carpark is the king

  1. #61
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Lola, if you don't mind me - asking which kit did you use?
    Kill him.
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    Kill everything... that IS the solution!
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    twitchy molests my signature!

  2. #62
    Elite Member WhateverLolaWants's Avatar
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    The one they offer through ancestry.com I know, it's probably not the best, but they gave me a heavy discount on it if I was going to renew my annual subscription (Which my family pays for, anyways)
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  3. #63
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    My family also has native american blood from the family that came into Virginia in the early 1600s. That shows up sometime in the early 1800s in Tennessee. A family member contacted the tribe that is still there. They have great records in many cases and are willing to share. The family member went and spent some time there and was able to find the record that showed our relative was a pastor who fell in love with a native american woman. His church refused to marry them and kicked him out. They basically lived in sin and had 2 kids - one being my great-great-great grandfather who was named Doc Paeola XXX. The tribe had the records of where they allowed the marriage and recorded the births. Doc died while the kids were little and their mother died not long after. Doc and his sister Polly were separated and went to live with different family members and did not reunite until they were in their 50s. Without finding the birth records for Doc, my family would not have been able to trace the family back before him.

    If you are pretty sure you know the name of at least 1 family member, and estimated time of birth, you can contact the surviving tribes. Many have records and are happy to reclaim you. http://www.narf.org/nill/resources/roots.htm
    Last edited by sluce; February 19th, 2013 at 01:07 PM.
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  4. #64
    Elite Member WhateverLolaWants's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I've found the broken branch (Through mostly census records) and linked it to a man who probably married a Chippewa(?) woman in Canada. I do not have his DOB, first name(It's rumored to be George and he is rumored to be a trapper, but I have nothing concrete) or her name and ethnic background ('Chippewa' was told to me by my grandmother who suffers with dementia) but their son (My great great great great grandfather) was born in 1813 in New Brunswick and others on genealogy forums have similar info/family rumors. I have a LOT of info on the son Sylvester P Mason (Who was the first postmaster in Chippewa County in Michigan, apparently) so that is helping.

    http://genealogytrails.com/mich/chip...neerhouse.html
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  5. #65
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    Sluce/Lola that's so cool
    I smile because I have no idea what's going on

  6. #66
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Do you have a death record for Sylvester? People in his position often had obits in the local papers that told part of their family history. I have a few from our past and they gave tons of info.

    Wonder if these would help?

    Native American Candian Surname Search: Family Tree Facts

    Aboriginal Peoples - Genealogy - Local History & Genealogy

    ETA - Sylvestor died in 1914 so there must be an obit. Google to find what papers covered his town at that time and for the historical society from his area. They may have old obits in digital format now.

    He was more than a postmaster so there must be records. The town was an Indian settlement too.
    http://genealogytrails.com/mich/chip...fishpoint.html
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  7. #67
    Elite Member WhateverLolaWants's Avatar
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    Hmm, I have him dying in 1881? Though that is a family record, I don't have an official document attached to that. The last official document I have on him is a land grant in 1872. Where are you finding the 1914 date?
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  8. #68
    Elite Member WhateverLolaWants's Avatar
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    Sylvester P Mason sr also had a son (my great great great uncle) who was also Sylvester P Mason. I think that may be the 1914 death you're seeing.
    ----------------------------
    There will be times you might leap before you look
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    Do it anyway

  9. #69
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    That could be. This is interesting though because it talks about George Brown who dealt with furs and game. Chippewa County Michigan Genealogy & History

    The Whitefish Post Office was established in Whitesfish Point at the Centennial Cranberry Farm on 24 September 1877 with Sylvester P. Mason as the first postmaster. He also owned a hotel and was a dealer in pine lands. E.M Baker had a general store. Wllliam Branding, Charles Endress & Son. Post-Jones & Co. and S. G. Teeple were involved in fishing. George Brown dealt in furs and game.

    This is also cool, because although Sylvester was just mentioned, it gives a nice history of the area and mentions the Chippewa's working the area at the same time. I love reading the accounts of what the families went through as they settled the areas.
    Chippewa County Michigan Genealogy & History
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  10. #70
    Elite Member WhateverLolaWants's Avatar
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    Yes! My father's New England family branches mostly from Canada/Michigan french immigrants and on my Southern (mother's) side, there are Irish immigrants to the South and Virginia British colonials dating back, in large numbers, to Jamestown/Charleston colonists. Their wills are fascinating, both wonderful and horrible. Reading about your ancestors willing HUMAN BEINGS to other humans is just sickening. Then there is the heartfelt plea not to 'sell my boy Jack, but keep him and love him' from an estranged father to his son and daughter-in-law. I can't tell if 'My boy Jack' is a slave or a mulatto son but he's not in the genealogy record, official or otherwise. I wish I could find him. I wonder what happened to him...
    sluce, olivia and Kathie_Moffett like this.
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    There will be times you might leap before you look
    There'll be times you'll like the cover and that's precisely why you'll love the book
    Do it anyway

  11. #71
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Richard III Burial Site Has Strange Double Coffin (PICTURES)

    The Huffington Post UK |
    Posted: 29/07/2013 14:31 BST | Updated: 29/07/2013 20:43 BST Follow:

    Richard III
    , Archeology, Burial, Leicester, UK NEWS, UK News
    The mystery surrounding the burial of Richard III under what became a Leicester car park has deepened yet further, with the discovery of a strange coffin-within-a-coffin.
    Archaeologists from The University of Leicester are still busy working on the site where the last of the Plantagenets was found - and said they had never seen anything this strange object.
    The find is a lead coffin, found fully inside a stone casket, requiring eight people to lift the stone lid from the two-metre long outer coffin. Archaeologists believe it could be for than a century older than Richard III's remains.


    Lifting the lid, the stone coffin is opened at the Greyfriars dig site The inner coffin is likely to contain a high-status burial. It could be one of two leaders of the English Grey Friars order - Peter Swynsfeld, who died in 1272, and William of Nottingham, who died in 1330.
    It could also be 14th century knight Sir William de Moton of Peckleton, who died between 1356 and 1362.
    Grey Friars site director Mathew Morris, of the University of Leicester Archaeological Services, told the BBC: "The stone coffin was always the big thing we wanted to investigate during this dig.
    "For me, it was as exciting as finding Richard III. We still don't know who is inside - so there is still a question mark over it.
    "None of us in the team have ever seen a lead coffin within a stone coffin before. We will now need to work out how to open it safely, as we don't want to damage the contents when we are opening the lid."
    The bones of Richard III are due to be reinterred in Leicester Cathedral in May 2014, though it is subject to a legal challenge by campaigners who want his remains to be returned to York.

    Richard III Burial Site Has Strange Double Coffin (PICTURES)

    Lots of photos at the link
    Free Charmed.

  12. #72
    Elite Member Chalet's Avatar
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    Fascinating, I missed this when it was posted.

    I have nothing to contribute to this thread other than I can safely say I'm probably the only person here who saw Pacino in Richard III five times in one week because we had comped tickets.

    I never saw the Ian McKellan film, thanks WCG.

  13. #73
    Elite Member Kathie_Moffett's Avatar
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    Fascinating. I didn't think his descendants, et al, would get anywhere with this. Yet it seems they have.

    Not that anybody asked me, but if not in York, I think it would be lovely if he could be buried with his wife Anne, who is in Westminster Abbey. By all accounts they were a love match, and the romantic in me feels they should be together again. The abbey's a more suitable resting place for a long-lost King of England anyway--as opposed to making him a tourist attraction. Tacky that.

    Last battle for Richard III as burial plans disputed in court
    Estelle Shirbon August 16, 2013



    .View gallery



    • .

    • .


    By Estelle Shirbon
    LONDON (Reuters) - Descendants of Richard III won a court battle on Friday over where to bury the medieval monarch, whose bones were found under a car park last year, but were urged not to embark on a legal version of the Wars of the Roses in which the king died.
    In one of the most remarkable archaeological finds in English history, a skeleton with a cleaved skull and a curved spine was formally identified as Richard's remains by DNA testing in February this year.
    Depicted by William Shakespeare as a deformed tyrant who murdered his two young nephews to strengthen his grip on power, Richard was killed in 1485 at the Battle of Bosworth, the last king of England to perish on a battlefield.
    The University of Leicester, which led the quest to find, exhume and identify Richard's remains, obtained permission from the Ministry of Justice to reinter the king at the cathedral in Leicester, which is close to Bosworth in central England.
    View gallery."

    A facial reconstruction of King Richard III is displayed at a news conference in central London Febr

    But descendants of the monarch, who was the last king of the Plantagenet dynasty, went to court arguing that Richard should instead be laid to rest in the cathedral in York, the northern English city with which he had close links during his life.
    In a ruling delivered on Friday, High Court Judge Charles Haddon-Cave said the ministry had been wrong to give the green light to the Leicester burial plan without engaging in wider consultation on a matter of wide public interest.
    "The archaeological discovery of the mortal remains of a former king of England after 500 years is without precedent," the judge wrote, granting permission to the pro-York Plantagenet Alliance, a group of descendants and enthusiasts, to initiate a judicial review into the issue.
    "I would, however, urge the parties to avoid embarking on the (legal) Wars of the Roses Part 2," he wrote. "In my view, it would be unseemly, undignified and unedifying to have a legal tussle over these royal remains."
    TUDOR TRIUMPH
    View gallery."

    A guard stands at the entrance to the car park where the skeleton of King Richard III was discovered

    The Wars of the Roses were a 30-year civil war fuelled by a dynastic power struggle between two rival Plantagenet factions. Richard's death ended Plantagenet rule and heralded the start of the Tudor era under King Henry VII.
    Judge Haddon-Cave suggested that instead of pursuing the Leicester-York dispute through the courts, the parties should refer the question of where and how to bury Richard to a panel of suitable experts who could conduct a wide consultation.
    He said the issue had generated strong public feeling, noting that 26,553 people had signed a petition that Richard's remains should be buried at York, while a rival petition in favor of Leicester had gathered 8,115 signatures.
    "Richard III has remained a historical figure of significance and controversy," the judge noted.
    Passionate supporters of Richard have long argued that he was unfairly maligned after his death by the triumphant Tudors and his reputation was further damaged by Shakespeare's play, written during the reign of Queen Elizabeth I, a Tudor.
    The enduring image of Richard in the popular imagination is that of Shakespeare's power-crazed hunchback calling "A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!" after being thrown from his courser during the Battle of Bosworth.
    Judge Haddon-Cave described the work of the University of Leicester in finding Richard's remains as "inspired, determined and meticulous", but found that approval of the plan to bury the monarch in Leicester had been too hasty.
    "Counsel for the Plantagenet Alliance submit that the law of England is not simply based on 'finders keepers', particularly where the remains of a former king of England are concerned. There is obvious force in this submission," he wrote.
    (Editing by Alison Williams)




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  14. #74
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    BTW- Queen Anne had no monument at Westminster until 1960, when the Richard III society paid for one to be put up.
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  15. #75
    Elite Member Charmed Hour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathie_Moffett View Post
    Fascinating. I didn't think his descendants, et al, would get anywhere with this. Yet it seems they have.

    Not that anybody asked me, but if not in York, I think it would be lovely if he could be buried with his wife Anne, who is in Westminster Abbey. By all accounts they were a love match, and the romantic in me feels they should be together again. The abbey's a more suitable resting place for a long-lost King of England anyway--as opposed to making him a tourist attraction. Tacky that.
    It's been said he cried at her funeral. The fact that he attended at all points that he loved her deeply. Generally, Kings did not attend funerals, even for their wives and children.
    Kittylady and Kathie_Moffett like this.

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