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Thread: Religious circumcision of kids a crime - German court

  1. #16
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mivvi21 View Post
    Circumcision is genital mutilation,so I am glad they have tried to put a stop to it. The US needs to do the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarzy View Post
    This. It can't be compared. Cutting off part of a baby's penis is horrible and I've never agreed with it.
    I don't agree with babies getting their ears pierced either but that's not as serious as circumcision and it's not irreversible either.
    this, and this.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  2. #17
    Elite Member Lenny's Avatar
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    In theory I like this law but I am afraid it might do more harm than good when parents bring their boys to back alley butchers instead of a doctor to get them circumcized.

  3. #18
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    rabbis have been circumcising jewish baby boys forever. it's already out of the hands of the medical profession.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny View Post
    In theory I like this law but I am afraid it might do more harm than good when parents bring their boys to back alley butchers instead of a doctor to get them circumcized.
    Female circ. was outlawed in the US in the late 90's and in the UK in the mid 80's, not sure how often it is happening now.

  5. #20
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    rabbis have been circumcising jewish baby boys forever. it's already out of the hands of the medical profession.
    Remember that horrific story recently about the child who died of some kind of herpes complication because the mohel kissed the wound?

    I tend to think of a "mutilation" as something that renders something less functional/non-functional or non-aesthetic. I don't think male circumcision fits that definition, but FGM does.
    dexter7 likes this.

  6. #21
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Remember that horrific story recently about the child who died of some kind of herpes complication because the mohel kissed the wound?

    I tend to think of a "mutilation" as something that renders something less functional/non-functional or non-aesthetic. I don't think male circumcision fits that definition, but FGM does.
    It actually does take away some of the function as far as sexual pleasure. I'm not up for debate on this, but if you google around you will find many articles which support leaving babies intact and through them you can see where it is a violation of civil rights to do this to someone.

    ETA and aesthetic is often subjective yk?

  7. #22
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MmeVertigina View Post
    It actually does take away some of the function as far as sexual pleasure. I'm not up for debate on this, but if you google around you will find many articles which support leaving babies intact and through them you can see where it is a violation of civil rights to do this to someone.

    ETA and aesthetic is often subjective yk?
    I'm a guy and I'm cut. If I had any more ability to experience sexual pleasure, I wouldn't have time to type this.

  8. #23
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I'm a guy and I'm cut. If I had any more ability to experience sexual pleasure, I wouldn't have time to type this.

    And that is your subjective opinion. Not all men agree, but it should be their choice.

  9. #24
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MmeVertigina View Post
    And that is your subjective opinion. Not all men agree, but it should be their choice.
    Not all men agree on anything, much less circumcision. My point, however, goes back to whether it is mutilation. Under the standard definitions of "cripping, impairing, or disfiguring" the term doesn't really fit.

  10. #25
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Not all men agree on anything, much less circumcision. My point, however, goes back to whether it is mutilation. Under the standard definitions of "cripping, impairing, or disfiguring" the term doesn't really fit.
    Look, to you it doesn't look disfigured. To some people it does. Research it deeply and you might be surprised by what you find. My opinion is that male or female it should be that person's choice as to what their genitals look like/function like. I am on other boards where this is frequently discussed so I can see where you are coming from, but not everyone is ok with having part of their body involuntarily removed when it was perfectly functional before.

    ETA I think the bigger issue when applied to this thread is religious rights/freedom vs. human/civil rights.

  11. #26
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MmeVertigina View Post
    Look, to you it doesn't look disfigured. To some people it does. Research it deeply and you might be surprised by what you find. My opinion is that male or female it should be that person's choice as to what their genitals look like/function like. I am on other boards where this is frequently discussed so I can see where you are coming from, but not everyone is ok with having part of their body involuntarily removed when it was perfectly functional before.

    ETA I think the bigger issue when applied to this thread is religious rights/freedom vs. civil rights.
    I don't think it will EVER be resolved as to whether a penis looks disfigured - cut or uncut. There have been threads here stating that they just look weird in general. Even the definition of "part of your body being removed" is kind of up for grabs. It is a piece of skin. Not a digit. If you have tummy tuck, is it mutilation or disfiguring?

    I totally get the idea about letting people make this decision for themselves as they get older. Conversely, I think the issue is overblown.

    The issue in Germany is revolving around whether circumcision creates "minor bodily harm" and whether preventing it outweighs religious tradition.

  12. #27
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I don't think it will EVER be resolved as to whether a penis looks disfigured - cut or uncut. There have been threads here stating that they just look weird in general. Even the definition of "part of your body being removed" is kind of up for grabs. It is a piece of skin. Not a digit. If you have tummy tuck, is it mutilation or disfiguring?

    I totally get the idea about letting people make this decision for themselves as they get older. Conversely, I think the issue is overblown.

    The issue in Germany is revolving around whether circumcision creates "minor bodily harm" and whether preventing it outweighs religious tradition.
    And we'll leave it at that.

  13. #28
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MmeVertigina View Post
    And we'll leave it at that.
    Sorry, I don't mean to be argumentative. For some reason, this issue always draws me in, like a mohel to a big floppy foreskin.

  14. #29
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Sorry, I don't mean to be argumentative. For some reason, this issue always draws me in, like a mohel to a big floppy foreskin.
    Ha!

    No problem, I expected this thread to get much worse than it has so far. I just don't have the enough energy to devote much to it. It's a very loaded topic.

  15. #30
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MmeVertigina View Post
    Ha!

    No problem, I expected this thread to get much worse than it has so far. I just don't have the enough energy to devote much to it. It's a very loaded topic.
    It is a pretty loaded and emotional topic, and if banning male circumcision would help eradicate (by purposes of uniformity in legal codes) female "circumcision", I would be all for it.

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