Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 63

Thread: "Pregnant Man" welcomes second child

  1. #31
    Elite Member katerpillar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,568

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    Well, I like that his story is getting out in the sense that more people than ever will know that it takes all kinds, etc. And kids out there will know they're not weird if they identify as the opposite sex.
    Me too.

  2. #32
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    fellow traveller
    Posts
    57,753

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darksithbunny View Post
    Not a man. You are a woman. WOMAN. Say it feel it believe it. Now go get your vajay turned inside out and rolled into a hot dog but DNA is still gonna say woman. WOman. Noman.
    i guess you don't understand the difference between sex and gender then?
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  3. #33
    OCK
    OCK is offline
    Silver Member OCK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    chicago
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Icepik View Post
    SHE has two X chromosomes. She's female. Wishes she were born a man, wants to be a man, lives like a man, but is a woman.

    It's a woman, it just doesn't look like a woman. It's a woman; it's female.. it just grows a beard.

    Explain this to me. It's correct to call HER a pregnant male, but incorrect to call her a pregnant male?
    You don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender.
    Male/Female (biological terms) = Sex
    Man/Woman, Him/Her, Masculine/Feminine (cultural terms) = Gender

    He can have a baby because his SEX is female and will he will remain female for the rest of his life. He can never be a male because he will never have a Y chromosome. However, he identifies with the masculine GENDER and therefore is a man. Gender can change, sex can't change. A person's sex doesn't always determine their gender.

    Yes, thank you for this scientific approach. Doesn't change the FACT that,
    in order to perfect HER need to change GENDER, and become a MAN, SHE -
    like many others before HER - could have included surgery to remove HER
    reproductive organs.
    Reproductive organs have to do with sex not gender. Surgery isn't needed to change one's gender, it just makes it easier for some people to identify as their chosen gender.
    Instead, SHE only went halfway (removed boobs,
    took hormone treatments) and CALLS herself a man.
    And? If he wants to be identified as a man then he is a man.
    To then go out and seek public attention as the first pregant MAN
    Did he say he is the first pregnant man? If so, that is a misrepresentation because he's not.
    HERS is a case where HER feelings seem to outweigh physical, biological and gender-related facts.
    What facts? He feels more comfortable as a man than he did as a woman (culture), but since his partner couldn't get pregnant and he has working female parts he carried a baby (biology). Aside from his apparent attention whoring, I really don't see a problem here.
    This thread makes my inner anthropologist cry.
    Last edited by OCK; June 10th, 2009 at 08:40 PM.
    ~~~Jesus please save me from your fanclub~~~

  4. #34
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    30,680

    Default

    i'm really quite shocked and disappointed at how angry this makes some of you. Not everything can be pigeonholed neatly into things you understand, or into the way you think things should be.

    I do understand the confusion and the sort of feeling it's "false advertising" to call him a man when he's biologically a woman. But the gender issues here go far beyond that, and I thought a lot more people would be understanding of that.

  5. #35
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Where Being PC is understood as a fault!
    Posts
    11,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OCK View Post
    People refer to him as "he" because sex and gender are not the same thing. Gender (man or woman) can be changed, sex (male or female) cannot.
    Gender is a set of characteristics determined by your culture that identifies a person as masculine/feminine, man/woman, him/her. Not all cultures define gender in the same way, some cultures even have more than two genders.
    Sex is determined by biology and cannot be changed. If you have two X chromosomes you will forever be female. If you have an X and a Y chromosome you will forever be male.
    Calling this person a pregnant man was correct since he identifies himself with the masculine gender. It would have been incorrect if the article called him a pregnant male.
    While I understand the gender versus sex explanation you presented, is it not fair to say that within today's culture, whether correctly or incorrectly used,the terms have become interchangeable. When someone speaks of his or her sexual preferences, do more answer with the terms man and woman or male and female? For example, using your explanation, and dismissing the common usage, anyone who says he or she likes men, would also be willing to date a female who has chosen to live as a man.

    She isn't a male. She was born as a female and had working reproductive organs of said sex which she chose to use. It isn't spectacular that a female managed to have a baby, even if said female shot herself full of testosterone and had her breasts removed.

    Does how we choose to live our lives change what we are? Michael Jackson is not a white female, although he looks like a white woman. He will always be a black male although some will say he isn't much of a man.



  6. #36
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,359

    Default

    He identifies as a he. Yes, biologically he still has female working bits. Biologically he's still mostly female.

    However, if you met him in a public place or were in a social gathering, would you use the female identifier when calling him? Use her? She?

    Would you be that rude?

    You'd be lucky to escape with your face still attached.

    He identifies as a he. What's the big deal?
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #37
    OCK
    OCK is offline
    Silver Member OCK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    chicago
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    While I understand the gender versus sex explanation you presented, is it not fair to say that within today's culture, whether correctly or incorrectly used,the terms have become interchangeable. When someone speaks of his or her sexual preferences, do more answer with the terms man and woman or male and female? For example, using your explanation, and dismissing the common usage, anyone who says he or she likes men, would also be willing to date a female who has chosen to live as a man.

    She isn't a male. She was born as a female and had working reproductive organs of said sex which she chose to use. It isn't spectacular that a female managed to have a baby, even if said female shot herself full of testosterone and had her breasts removed.

    Does how we choose to live our lives change what we are? Michael Jackson is not a white female, although he looks like a white woman. He will always be a black male although some will say he isn't much of a man.
    I think people use the terms interchangeably because they don't realize that the terms refer to different things. When people say they like men they usually don't mean all men no matter what. Sometimes the the men in question have to look a certain way, have a certain job, certain beliefs, likes or dislikes, etc. and more often then not they have to be male.

    You're right he is a female and there really isn't anything spectacular about him. The only reason he is talked about so much is because he was on Oprah.

    As far as gender is concerned, how we choose to live our lives determines who we are. IMO Michael Jackson doesn't look masculine or feminine, but I assume he identifies himself as a man. As far as his race is concerned, I don't think anyone would argue that he isn't black. Race is more static than gender, at least in our culture. It's something that seems to be chosen for you.
    ~~~Jesus please save me from your fanclub~~~

  8. #38
    Elite Member MoodyJenny86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    4,711

    Default

    I'm not bothered by the fact that 'he' had a baby.

    I'm just bothered by the fact that 'he' is not really a 'he'...

    Once a real, biological man has a child, then I'll be interested.

    This just isn't news to me.

    The brain doesn't need blood. It just needs to be kept wet.

  9. #39
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    23,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    While I understand the gender versus sex explanation you presented, is it not fair to say that within today's culture, whether correctly or incorrectly used,the terms have become interchangeable. When someone speaks of his or her sexual preferences, do more answer with the terms man and woman or male and female? For example, using your explanation, and dismissing the common usage, anyone who says he or she likes men, would also be willing to date a female who has chosen to live as a man.

    She isn't a male. She was born as a female and had working reproductive organs of said sex which she chose to use. It isn't spectacular that a female managed to have a baby, even if said female shot herself full of testosterone and had her breasts removed.

    Does how we choose to live our lives change what we are? Michael Jackson is not a white female, although he looks like a white woman. He will always be a black male although some will say he isn't much of a man.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoodyJenny86 View Post
    I'm not bothered by the fact that 'he' had a baby.

    I'm just bothered by the fact that 'he' is not really a 'he'...

    Once a real, biological man has a child, then I'll be interested.

    This just isn't news to me.
    ITA with both. I have no problems understanding the "being born in a
    wrong body/identifying with opposite gender" part. It's a long running
    issue, that only relatively recently can be accomodated seriously through
    counseling and surgery. That's beside the point. The problem in this
    particular case is that she has presented herself in the media, I think
    she approached the media so it wasn't like she was "outed" or something,
    as a man (so, not just identifying with) and even more so, as a man who
    was about to be/do a first: carry and give birth to a child. That's where
    many believe she strayed from what otherwise would have been correct
    representation of her inner/biological conflict of being born into the wrong
    body/gender. It is, despite medical innovations, still impossible for biological
    males to give birth or even to conceive. That is not (yet) a male identifying
    characteristic, simply because of biological restrictions.
    So, to say you are a man, or even "just" identifying with the male gender
    and in more (complete surgery) or less (some treatment) of a way becoming
    the inner identity (male) should not include carrying and giving birth to a
    child, simply because no biological male in human history (or at least as
    far as we know) has ever done that. Yet, she represented herself (and at
    the very least did not deny when others described her as such) as the
    first male to carry and give birth to a child. That's what is wrong with
    this case.
    Warren Beatty: actor, director, writer, producer.

    ***** celeb

  10. #40
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Where Being PC is understood as a fault!
    Posts
    11,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OCK View Post
    I think people use the terms interchangeably because they don't realize that the terms refer to different things. When people say they like men they usually don't mean all men no matter what. Sometimes the the men in question have to look a certain way, have a certain job, certain beliefs, likes or dislikes, etc. and more often then not they have to be male.

    You're right he is a female and there really isn't anything spectacular about him. The only reason he is talked about so much is because he was on Oprah.

    As far as gender is concerned, how we choose to live our lives determines who we are. IMO Michael Jackson doesn't look masculine or feminine, but I assume he identifies himself as a man. As far as his race is concerned, I don't think anyone would argue that he isn't black. Race is more static than gender, at least in our culture. It's something that seems to be chosen for you.
    While I understand the point you are attempting to make, I have to respectfully disagree. While every person prefers certain aesthetic traits, if sexuality is as ingrained within a person as some suggest, someone who states a like for men, using common vernacular, not necessarily the correct scientific terminology, is not going to make exceptions for a female who has taken steps to appear more male. How many men have been angered when finding out the woman they were getting to know is a biological male?

    Since many, even on this board, have argued race and sexuality are the same, I chose to use race as an example. Biologically Michael Jackson is a black male, however, aesthetically speaking, he has become quite feminine and whiter than an albino. While he could be perceived as a white woman, he isn't.

    What I actually said was
    Does how we choose to live our lives change what we are?
    How we live defines the who, which I totally agree with you about. Biology defines the what. A woman had two kids! OMG! CALL RIPLEY'S! Just kidding.

    While I can not claim to understand how someone feels the wrong body was given to him or her, I can understand evolving and changing throughout life to fit more snugly in your skin, no pun intended. It still doesn't change what they are any more than the dye bottle changes the brown roots of the blonde hair shaft. In this man's case, he was straddling the gender lines, projecting an outward male appearance, while maintaining her internal female sex traits. I speak only of this one person's situation and not the transgendered community as a whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by HWBL View Post
    ITA with both. I have no problems understanding the "being born in a
    wrong body/identifying with opposite gender" part. It's a long running
    issue, that only relatively recently can be accomodated seriously through
    counseling and surgery. That's beside the point. The problem in this
    particular case is that she has presented herself in the media, I think
    she approached the media so it wasn't like she was "outed" or something,
    as a man (so, not just identifying with) and even more so, as a man who
    was about to be/do a first: carry and give birth to a child. That's where
    many believe she strayed from what otherwise would have been correct
    representation of her inner/biological conflict of being born into the wrong
    body/gender. It is, despite medical innovations, still impossible for biological
    males to give birth or even to conceive. That is not (yet) a male identifying
    characteristic, simply because of biological restrictions.
    So, to say you are a man, or even "just" identifying with the male gender
    and in more (complete surgery) or less (some treatment) of a way becoming
    the inner identity (male) should not include carrying and giving birth to a
    child, simply because no biological male in human history (or at least as
    far as we know) has ever done that. Yet, she represented herself (and at
    the very least did not deny when others described her as such) as the
    first male to carry and give birth to a child. That's what is wrong with
    this case.
    ITA! It does appear as a conscious misrepresentation in order to garner fame. If a male who lives as a woman, but has not had gender reassignment surgery, impregnated a woman, would it be the first case of two women procreating? This is a case of blurring the lines between biology and sociology for sensationalistic reasons.



  11. #41
    Elite Member darksithbunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    14,965

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    i guess you don't understand the difference between sex and gender then?

    I know a man cannot give birth to a baby.

  12. #42
    fgg
    fgg is offline
    Elite Member fgg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    33,875

    Default

    is he recognized legally as a man? if so, how when he still has all the girl parts? i can understand it better once all of the surgeries have been completed.

    if he ends up in jail would he still claim to be a he? i know i wouldn't want to be locked up with men if i still had my female parts, regardless of how i identified myself.

  13. #43
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Where Being PC is understood as a fault!
    Posts
    11,591

    Default

    I did a quick google search. California requires an affidavit from a doctor stating gender reassignment surgery has been completed before the person can petition the court for a gender change. Mississippi will not change a birth certificate, but will add the new name and gender on the original birth certificate.

    Here's a site that list by state and Canadian province what is required.

    Changing Birth Certificate



  14. #44
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    fellow traveller
    Posts
    57,753

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darksithbunny View Post
    I know a man cannot give birth to a baby.
    no one said that. biologically, chromosomally, he will always be a woman (xx), but his gender, what he identifies as, is male. do you not grasp that distinction?

    and revellinginsane, did michael jackson ever say he identifies and wants to be perceived as a white woman? did he openly say he was changing genders?
    sorry to say this, but your michael jackson example totally sucks and doesn't in any way relate to the subject.
    Last edited by Tati; June 11th, 2009 at 06:48 PM.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  15. #45
    Elite Member MoodyJenny86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    4,711

    Default

    Damn, the claws are starting to come out!

    The brain doesn't need blood. It just needs to be kept wet.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Rachel Griffiths pregnant with third child
    By visitor42 in forum Latest Gossip
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: January 20th, 2009, 12:10 AM
  2. Duggar family welcomes 18th child
    By Honey in forum News
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: December 22nd, 2008, 07:40 PM
  3. Casey Affleck welcomes a second child
    By sharon_b in forum Latest Gossip
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: January 15th, 2008, 03:19 PM
  4. Stella McCartney welcomes her third child
    By sharon_b in forum Latest Gossip
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: January 10th, 2008, 03:28 PM
  5. Blink 182's Travis Barker welcomes a second child
    By SVZ in forum Gossip Archive
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: December 28th, 2005, 06:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •