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Thread: Nurse refuses to perform CPR, citing policy and stress. Woman dies as result.

  1. #46
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quazar View Post
    My guess is that they were sued in the past for giving CPR to someone that may have somehow gone wrong. Now they have a policy in place that protects them from that liability. I can only hope that residents and their families know this policy upfront so that there are no surprises. If they choose this facility, they know what they're in for.
    Good Samaritan laws prevent lawsuits from someone attempting to perform lifesaving procedures. California is a state with such laws. They even are considering enacting Duty to Assist/Rescue laws, which compel someone to come to the aid of someone else, unless it puts their own safety at risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by scooter View Post
    I dont agree, sorry. 87 is a fatal condition in and of itself IMO. You dont ever 'recover', it just keeps getting worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by faithanne View Post
    So Queen Elizabeth may as well not bother checking herself out of hospital as she's turning 87 next birthday (even though her mother kicked on past 100). Sheesh, not everyone is the same.
    Sorry, I believe she's already "home". She'll have to poop herself to death in her palace.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I loved your book "Logan's Run"! Are you thinking about a sequel?
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Many people in their 80's are healthy and have great lives.
    My 83 year old neighbour was diagnosed with breast cancer and went from being a big robust lady to a shuffling bag of bones with no hair. She's 88 now, fit as she ever was (although a little slower) and says her dogs give her a reason to keep going.
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  5. #50
    Elite Member Quazar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Good Samaritan laws prevent lawsuits from someone attempting to perform lifesaving procedures. California is a state with such laws. They even are considering enacting Duty to Assist/Rescue laws, which compel someone to come to the aid of someone else, unless it puts their own safety at risk.


    This may be true for the average person but what if a staff member performed CPR, something went wrong and the patient's family sued the facility? I just feel like the fear of lawsuits has everyone going way beyond common sense to protect themselves. That's why some people don't want to get involved.
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    Elite Member OrangeSlice's Avatar
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    I was thinking about this case today. Today I met an 84 year old woman who (I don't know how it was approved) adopted her two great grandchildren 4 years ago (ages 7 and 8 then). I was expecting an elderly lady to answer the door, but a healthy looking woman that looked to be in her early 60s answered instead. She goes to all of their basketball and baseball games, goes out every single day to visit people in the retirement home, goes walking every day, and is planning an international trip this summer. I guess I'd better inform her the next time I see her that she needs to give the kids up and cancel all her plans because she's supposedly old as hell and should have no quality of life in about 3 years. I've seen 90-somethings that are in better physical health that 40 or 50-somethings. Don't fucking assume anything about anyone, health or quality of life, based on a number.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quazar View Post
    This may be true for the average person but what if a staff member performed CPR, something went wrong and the patient's family sued the facility? I just feel like the fear of lawsuits has everyone going way beyond common sense to protect themselves. That's why some people don't want to get involved.
    The laws are very patchwork from state to state, but it appears the intent of these laws are to specifically protect the first responder. Only if the responder is grossly negligent in their execution of CPR or lifesaving techniques would they be liable for some kind of damages. In all honesty, I think it would be difficult for the facility to be held civilly liable if the responder is already protected.

    The other thing I wanted to mention is that CPR classes emphasize how the first few minutes are crucial. If a person has collapsed and is not breathing, you are going to have about 3-4 minutes before brain death. I think it's highly unlikely that an ambulance is going to get there within the crucial time period -- especially, if it might take a full minute just for an orderly or some other person to notify a nurse that someone has collapsed, and that nurse is going to turn around and make a 911 call. For that reason, this policy is tantamount to sentencing to death a a resident at this facility who has collapsed and is not breathing or doesn't have a heartbeat.

  8. #53
    Elite Member stella blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faithanne View Post
    So Queen Elizabeth may as well not bother checking herself out of hospital as she's turning 87 next birthday (even though her mother kicked on past 100). Sheesh, not everyone is the same.
    Or she could not check herself into one that doesn't provide emergency recusitation.

  9. #54
    Elite Member Quazar's Avatar
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    If anything, this thread has inspired to get off my ass and get my CPR certification.
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    Elite Member Waterslide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter View Post
    I dont agree, sorry. 87 is a fatal condition in and of itself IMO. You dont ever 'recover', it just keeps getting worse.
    I don't know what to say except that I genuinely feel really sorry for you. There is no quicker way to grow old fast and and find pure misery than thinking like this.

    I guess I've just been blessed by knowing many, many people in their 70s, 80s and 90s who are in great health and love life. Ideally, people make peace with their lives and choose to die with dignity, but I don't think you magically hit some special birthday and go, "Well, my time's up. Better sit in the corner and wait to die." It just doesn't work like that, or at least it shouldn't.
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    Family: Woman denied CPR wanted no intervention - Yahoo! News

    ..Family: Woman denied CPR wanted no intervention
    By TRACIE CONE | Associated Press – 2 hrs 9 mins ago...'Kelly's Court' breaks down legal questions

    .....SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Relatives of an 87-year-old woman who died after a nurse at her retirement home refused a 911 dispatcher's pleas to perform CPR expressed satisfaction with the care she received, saying her wishes were to die naturally. Meanwhile, the company that owns the facility now says its worker failed to follow proper procedures.

    Lorraine Bayless' death last week at Glendale Gardens, a Bakersfield independent living facility, prompted outrage after a 7-minute recording of the 911 call was released. Brookdale Senior Living, which owns the facility, initially said its employee acted correctly by waiting until emergency personnel arrived. But late Tuesday, it issued a new statement saying the employee had misinterpreted the company's guidelines and was on voluntary leave while the case is investigated.

    "This incident resulted from a complete misunderstanding of our practice with regards to emergency medical care for our residents," the Tennessee-based company said.

    Shortly before Brookdale's clarification, Bayless' family sent The Associated Press a statement saying she was aware that Glenwood Gardens did not offer trained medical staff, but opted to live there anyway.

    "It was our beloved mother and grandmother's wish to die naturally and without any kind of life prolonging intervention," the family said. "We understand that the 911 tape of this event has caused concern, but our family knows that mom had full knowledge of the limitations of Glenwood Gardens and is at peace."

    The family said it would not sue or try to profit from the death, and called it "a lesson we can all learn from."

    "We regret that this private and most personal time has been escalated by the media," the statement said.

    Bayless collapsed in the Glenwood Gardens dining hall on Feb. 26. Someone called 911 on a cellphone and asked for an ambulance. Later, a woman who identified herself as a nurse got on the line and told dispatcher Tracey Halvorson she was not permitted to do CPR on the woman.

    Halvorson implored the nurse to find someone else and said she would instruct them on how to do the procedure.

    "I understand if your facility is not willing to do that," Halvorson said. "Give the phone to a passer-by. This woman is not breathing enough. She is going to die if we don't get this started, do you understand?"

    By the time paramedics arrived, Bayless had stopped breathing.

    Bakersfield fire officials who responded said Bayless did not have a "do not resuscitate" order on file at the home. The family and the company have not commented.

    Glenwood Gardens is an independent living facility and as such Brookdale has said that by law it is "not licensed to provide medical care to any of its residents." But it added later that it was reviewing company policies "involving emergency medical care across all of our communities."

    The woman who identified herself as a nurse was employed at the facility as a resident services director, the company said.

    Bayless' death has prompted multiple investigations.

    Bakersfield police are trying to determine whether a crime was committed when the nurse refused to help even find someone to perform CPR. The Kern County Aging and Adult Services Department is looking into possible elder abuse and the state Assembly's Aging and Long-term Care Committee is investigating to see whether legislation is needed.

    The nation's largest trade group for senior living facilities has called for its members to review policies.

    "It was a complete tragedy," said Maribeth Bersani, senior vice president of the Assisted Living Federation of America. "Our members are now looking at their policies to make sure they are clear. Whether they have one to initiate (CPR) or not, they should be responsive to what the 911 person tells them to do."

    The California Board of Registered Nursing is concerned that the woman who spoke to the 911 dispatcher did not even respond to requests to find someone who might want to help.

    "If she's not engaged in the practice of nursing, there's no obligation (to help)," agency spokesman Russ Heimerich said. "What complicates this further is the idea that she wouldn't hand the phone over either. So that's why we want to look into it."
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I really, really feel like some kind of information is missing from this story. The facility's "about face" on its policy sound disingenuous, and I can't fathom why the family would be okay with an otherwise healthy relative (absent some kind of terminal or debilitating illness) collapsing and not being revived.

    When I signed my mom into an assisted-living facility, she was already suffering from terminal cancer, but I had to explicitly write instructions on whether she was to be revived or not if she lost consciousness or stopped breathing. Because she had advanced multiple myeloma, CPR was completely out of the question. I'm not sure if that rationale could be used here.
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    my grandmother is 88 and you better be on your hands and knees saving her ass if you know how to do it! she has a lot more living to do!
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    Elite Member OrangeSlice's Avatar
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    So, what if the lady was choking? Would they just stand there and refuse to do a Heimlich maneuver?
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeSlice View Post
    So, what if the lady was choking? Would they just stand there and refuse to do a Heimlich maneuver?
    What if they set their dressing gowns on fire reaching over a candle in the dining room? Does the staff ignore the fire extinguisher and just wait for the fire department?

    Will they give a resident an insulin shot if their blood pressure drops enough that they can't self administer a shot?

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