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Thread: Nurse refuses to perform CPR, citing policy and stress. Woman dies as result.

  1. #31
    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    I lost both my parents to heart attacks and my mother was at work when she had chest pains and was taken to the medical centre next door, where she went into cardiac arrest and the nurse called the ambulance. It was too late by the time she got to the hospital but they did whatever they could to try and revive her, and I would have been outraged if they hadn't. It wasn't up to this woman's nurse to decide her time had come, it was her job to do what the 911 operator said she should do as a paid professional. Why bother having nurses at independent living facilities if all they do is call 911 then stand around doing nothing in an emergency?
    "You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well."



  2. #32
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Faithanne - my mom has sudden cardiac arrest, while swimming in the ocean in New Jersey. The lifeguard team had just gotten, and been trained is using an AED. She was flatlined for a bit before they got her to land and the crew got there with the AED. They used it and saved her life. We almost lost her from that water she took in her lungs, but after 10 long days, she turned the corner. It's been over 8 years and she has been having a great time living with a defibrilator implanted in her chest. It has never gone off, but it's there, just in case.

    I want to know more about why this place has a policy to not help their clients. Heck, as a Girl Scout leader I had to keep my first aid, CPR and AED certification current in order to have meetings and field trips. I was to use all that training if need be. If one of the girls had suffered sudden cardiac arrest should I have just said, "well her heart gave out so it must be her time." I just don't understand the policy without context. But, I keep going back to the victim's daughter being ok with this. That makes me think there was more at play than we know.
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  3. #33
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    $$$
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  4. #34
    Elite Member Quazar's Avatar
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    My guess is that they were sued in the past for giving CPR to someone that may have somehow gone wrong. Now they have a policy in place that protects them from that liability. I can only hope that residents and their families know this policy upfront so that there are no surprises. If they choose this facility, they know what they're in for.
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  5. #35
    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quazar View Post
    My guess is that they were sued in the past for giving CPR to someone that may have somehow gone wrong. Now they have a policy in place that protects them from that liability. I can only hope that residents and their families know this policy upfront so that there are no surprises. If they choose this facility, they know what they're in for.
    I remembering hearing from a news report on this story that the residents and families signed papers before admitting anyone into the nursing home. I guess they had the policy explained to them and the residents accepted when they signed the dotted line.

    Still, I was bothered by how non-chalant and cold the nurse sounded over the 911 call. Policy or not, at least pretend to give a damn.

  6. #36
    Elite Member DeChayz's Avatar
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    I found this interesting:
    And on the subject of liability, Raj pointed out that good Samaritan laws protect people who attempt to perform CPR.
    “Even if you’re not trained in CPR, if you attempt it in good faith to help someone, you’re not liable,” she said.
    So if she was afraid of losing her job (which I'm assuming was why she so adamantly refused), she could have gotten ANYBODY ELSE ANYWHERE to come help this woman. She was no nonchalant when the 911 operator asked her if there was anyone else around - fuck, take the cordless and FIND SOMEONE!! Not "Um, not at this time". Really, so when would be a good time for you to call back?

  7. #37
    Elite Member JadeStar70's Avatar
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    Wow. My daughter is a new RN. She is 21. I am going to ask her what she thinks of this story.

    Aren't any medically professional people sworn to help anyone in need,...whether on or off the job??? The same with anyone that has been certified in CPR. Don't you have a moral and legal obligation to at least TRY to help someone in need?? How could you work at a job with that training, and let a person suffer and die without trying to help them??? I was certified in CPR over 15 years ago,...but if someone dropped in front of me, and I was the only one there to help, I would at least TRY to help them. JFC!

    The daughter sounds like a cold hearted bitch...........

  8. #38
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    Tragic. I would rather loose my job than loose respect for myself as a human being that I didn't try to save somebody. I think some people are clearly in the wrong profession.

  9. #39
    Elite Member darksithbunny's Avatar
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    I am on the fence about this. My grandma is 91 and we talked about this when we heard it on the news. She said if it were her she would be glad that they let her go. I told grams that I if I found her I would do everything I could. She then told me that once she recovered, and god willing she doesn't, she would kill me!
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  10. #40
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Ethics required medical staff to do CPR, even if policy didn't, bioethicist writes

    Last week, 87-year-old Lorraine Bayless collapsed at Glenwood Gardens, an assisted living facility in Bakersfield, Calif., and later died.


    While it’s not unexpected that an elderly person would die, what’s troubling is that after she collapsed, a nurse called 911, yet wouldn’t administer CPR or look for someone else to do it, despite the request of the emergency dispatcher.


    The management of Glenwood Gardens backed up the staffer’s decision to not start CPR.

    “Our practice is to immediately call emergency medical personnel for assistance and to wait with the individual needing attention until such personnel arrives,” Jeffrey Toomer, executive director of Glenwood Gardens, said in written statement. “That is the protocol we followed.”


    Toomer was not the only one backing the decision not to start CPR. Bayless' daughter told a reporter for KGET, the NBC affiliate in Bakersfield, that she was also a nurse and was satisfied with the care her mother received. It seems unlikely that a lawsuit will follow.


    So why might the staffer and the facility balk at using CPR to try to save the life of a dying woman? One reason is that the woman who called 911 may not have felt comfortable trying CPR for some reason or perhaps felt out of practice. Another might be that since the facility had a call and wait policy, perhaps she worried for her job. One possible reason for Glenwood Garden’s policy is that there is always a nagging worry that no good deed will go unpunished — if CPR is given but it is done improperly will there be liability for the assisted living facility. As it happens, none of these reasons are good ones not to try CPR.


    Even without training someone might be able to help if guided by a knowledgeable person. The dispatcher offered to walk the caller through what to do but the caller still declined. And liability is not really much of a worry unless you do something extremely absurd every state shields those who try to be Good Samaritans against lawsuits.


    It is true that CPR does not work as well as we might wish. Even when someone sees a heart attack happen or a patient collapse, as was true in this case, the odds of preventing death in someone that age are not great.


    Still, I can’t help thinking that unless there is some medical fact about the patient that we don’t know—she had terminal cancer or a Do Not Resuscitate request in place —there is no ethical justification for calling 911 and then waiting until they come before starting CPR. Anyone of us could be confronted with this choice.


    Every one of us should think hard about what we ought to do when someone needs our help to live.



    Arthur Caplan, Ph.D., is the head of the Division of Medical Ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center.



    Ethics required medical staff to do CPR, even if policy didn't, bioethicist writes - Vitals
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  11. #41
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    I know that it is illegal here in Maryland to know CPR and not perform it on people who need it.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterslide View Post
    Old age is not a disease. You can't just decide someone's fate because of the chronological age set by their birth certificate.

    ETA - I also think "old" is a subjective thing, and therefore impossible to measure. What is old to one person is not old to another.
    I dont agree, sorry. 87 is a fatal condition in and of itself IMO. You dont ever 'recover', it just keeps getting worse.

  13. #43
    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    So Queen Elizabeth may as well not bother checking herself out of hospital as she's turning 87 next birthday (even though her mother kicked on past 100). Sheesh, not everyone is the same.
    "You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well."



  14. #44
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^ yeah, just put the old bitch out of her misery. Also, Mel Brooks, Alan Greenspan, Hugh Hefner, just to name a few more.

    Quote Originally Posted by scooter View Post
    I dont agree, sorry. 87 is a fatal condition in and of itself IMO. You dont ever 'recover', it just keeps getting worse.
    GTFO. Life is a fucking fatal condition, no one gets out alive.

    Many people in their 80's are healthy and have great lives.
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  15. #45
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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