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Thread: Maylasian Airline has lost contact with a 777

  1. #46
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    So sad, the neighbors of a family of 6 (4 children) that died in the crash told the news "Their house is empty now. There are people walking around in that empty house, who have nothing left. No children, no grandchildren."
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  2. #47
    Elite Member Flygirl's Avatar
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    They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on.
    Well, I agree with Nickolay on that one. What the hell were these airlines thinking, flying routes over this area just to save fuel? All the lives lost to greed and cutting corners in this industry will never cease to amaze me. Those poor families.
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  3. #48
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    This plane wasn't the only one using that airspace though. A Singapore Airlines plane was just 15 miles from that spot a few minutes earlier and some estimates suggest that up to 300 planes A DAY fly over the Ukraine.

    I'm not even sure if what's happening in the Ukraine is 'officially' classed as a war or an internal conflict (yeah, I know, potato, po-ta-to), but if the classification is that it's an internal conflict then I'm guessing that there isn't a "No Fly Zone" in place.

    Fly can you clarify me on this?
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  4. #49
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    Final number of Dutch casualties: 193.

    Horrifying account of a local resident, source Daily Mail:

    'There was a howling noise and everything started to rattle. Then objects started falling out of the sky,' said Irina Tipunova, 65. 'And then I heard a roar and she landed in the bedroom. The roof was broken. '

    The dead woman's naked body was still lying inside the house, next to a bed.

    Still visibly shaken by her experience, Tipunova said: 'The body's still here because they told me to wait for experts to come and get it.'



    Last edited by HWBL; July 19th, 2014 at 03:01 AM.
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  5. #50
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    There's all kinds of reports surfacing that the luggage has been looted.
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  6. #51
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    Yep, watching "Today Show" now. Saying that some of these people's credit cards have already been used. Area is not secured or cordoned off. Just keeps getting worse and worse. The Separatists apparently have possession of the black boxes. Apparently only one American on board, not 23 as originally thought.
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  7. #52
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    Yep, and apparently 38 bodies have been removed already as well. This mess just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Those poor relatives.
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  8. #53
    Elite Member Flygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittylady View Post
    This plane wasn't the only one using that airspace though. A Singapore Airlines plane was just 15 miles from that spot a few minutes earlier and some estimates suggest that up to 300 planes A DAY fly over the Ukraine.

    I'm not even sure if what's happening in the Ukraine is 'officially' classed as a war or an internal conflict (yeah, I know, potato, po-ta-to), but if the classification is that it's an internal conflict then I'm guessing that there isn't a "No Fly Zone" in place.

    Fly can you clarify me on this?
    At the time of the "accident", the Federal Aviation Administration and the US military had the entire area as a no fly zone. (By military, I mean our big old cargo planes. I'm sure there are some things buzzing around over there, but that knowledge is above my pay grade) The International Civil Aviation Organization had a no fly zone in place over the area, but only up to 32000. They obviously had not done their homework on what types of weapons they had.
    These are only recommendations. Euro control is great, but they don't always know every particular flight's restrictions, and it's not really their responsibility. The responsibility lies with the pilot in command if he/she accepts a more direct routing, but to file a plan like that from the initial get go is ludicrous and is on the airline.

    We cannot overfly Ireland if we have any type of hazardous cargo on board. Dispatch usually catches this and will route us around. Air traffic control, not knowing this info, will offer us "shortcuts" all the time that would violate our agreements with these countries. Same goes for Cuba. Civilian airliners enroute to South America can flyover, but we have to go around.

    Sorry for the ramble , but the bottom line is no one should have been in this airspace. It was pure greed not to re-route the flights.
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  9. #54
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    The Malaysia Airlines Disaster Is Vladimir Putin's Lockerbie Bombing
    RUSSIAJULY 18, 2014

    The Malaysia Airlines Disaster Is Vladimir Putin's Lockerbie Bombing

    By Adrian Karatnycky

    T
    The catastrophic consequences of the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 go well beyond the 298 needlessly lost souls and the suffering inflicted on their families and friends. The plane’s downing is an international incident of no less consequence than the Lockerbie bombing ordered by Muammar Qaddafi in 1988, which transformed someone regarded as an eccentric despot into a lethally dangerous international pariah. While Russian President Vladimir Putinunlike Qaddafidid not order the shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines plane, this tragedy drives home the dangers to international security posed by his reckless adventurism and his use of proxies in what has been labeled a hybrid war.
    Since the conflict in eastern Ukraine began, Russian propaganda has sought to portray it as a civil war, an internecine Ukrainian conflicta formulation that was a comfortable dissimulation for many European democracies that wanted to avoid disrupting their economic relations with Russia.
    With the downing of MH17, the fighting in eastern Ukraine has been globalized into a war that has claimed the lives of western Europeans, Asians, and North Americans. It has place under unprecedented international scrutiny Russia’s central role as the backbone of the fighting in Eastern Ukraine and has stripped the mask off Russian subterfuge and propaganda.

    First, within minutes of the disappearance of Malaysian flight 17, rebel leader Igor Girkin (a Russian security service operative who goes by the nom de guerre “Strelkov,” or shooter) posted on his Russian social-media page that rebels had taken down a Ukrainian military transport plane in the vicinity of the tragedy. Ukraine’s security services have also released tapes of intercepted rebel communications in which they first celebrate the downing of an enemy plane and then realize that a passenger plane has been hit.

    Second, there is the mounting evidence that it was a Russian-produced missilethe BUKwith the capacity to reach altitudes of over 25 kilometers (15 miles) that shot down flight 17. A report from June 29, by the Russian news service TASS, indicated that rebels were now in possession of the BUK missiles, but said they had been captured from Ukraine forces, a claim denied by Ukraine, which insists that all its missiles and launchers are accounted for and remain under their control.

    Ukrainian officials have denied that such weapons were seized from their arsenal and typical Ukrainian policy is to destroy weapons before surrendering or retreating positions. More likely, the story was planted to allow for Kremlin deniability of direct military support to the rebel cause.
    Third, there is the mounting evidence of a massive Russian transfer of heavy weaponry to rebel forces to stave off Ukraine’s forces, which in recent weeks have recaptured over half of rebel held territory. Today Ukrainian authorities control three-quarters of the regions in which the Russian proxy separatist movement has been operating. One area over which Ukraine’s forces do not have control is the rebel-held region over which the Malaysia Airlines plane was shot down.

    Fearful of the potential international backlash against the perpetrators of the attack and their links to Russia, Putin’s crudely propagandistic media are in high gear. Some of them are pinning responsibility for the attack directly on Ukraine forces. Russia’s U.N. ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, has declared that Ukraine is to blame because its civil aviation authorities permitted flights over a combat zone. Putin himself has, more vaguely, blamed Ukraine for creating the circumstances for the tragedy by failing to seek peace when he knows that, for ten days in late June and early July, Ukraine held firm to a cease fire that the rebels disregarded. He further knows that, under his instructions, Russia has recruited mercenaries, provided heavy weapons, and sent skilled military operatives and technicians to lead a proxy war in Ukraine’s Donbas region.
    Russian claims of Ukrainian complicity in the MH17 disaster strain credulity. Ukraine is the only side with combat aircraft and military transports engaged in the conflict in the Donbas region. It would be illogical for them to shoot down any planes over their territory as none thus far have been in the hands of hostiles. Moreover, Ukraine’s military liaise with their air-traffic controllers and have had real-time information concerning all planes over their airspace and knew the flight was civilian.

    J
    Just a few days ago, Putin was feeling comfortable. He was basking in glory as a respectable world leader. First, there were the shots of him sitting near German Chancellor Angela Merkel at the World Cup finalthe putative host of the next championship in 2018. Then came his photo-ops with the leaders of some of the world’s fastest growing economiesChina, Brazil, India, and South Africa.
    Today this image of respectability is in a shambles, lying in ruin by the shattered remains of Malaysian Airways Flight 17.
    The months of Russian arms, Russian fighters, and Russian financing for the separatist insurgency in eastern Ukraine, are under the glare of massive international media scrutiny and the fingerprints of Putin are all over this tragedy.
    But the crisis both poses acute dangers to Putin and places him at a political crossroadsand, paradoxically, offers him a way out. Along one path is a pariah status, increased international isolation additional sanctions and a new Cold War. Along another is a stand-down with a cutoff of support of the rebel forces and pressure on them to flee or agree to lay down their arms.
    Which path Putin chooses will be clear in the coming days.

    In recent weeks, there had been signs of growing concern among Kremlin moderates and the Russian business community that the proxy war in Ukraine was far too damaging to Russia’s economy and was developing into a potential threat to Russia’s longterm stability. This week, with new U.S. sanctions and the threat of Russian isolation emanating from Putin’s Lockerbie, the Russian stock market fell by over 8 percent.
    Putin can seize on this tragedy to move toward rapid de-escalation in eastern Ukraine. He can urge the 15,000 insurgent fighters in Ukraine’s Eastmany of them Russiansto lay down their arms. And he can immediately stop the flow of tanks, missiles, and other weapons to the rebels.
    Or he can become a Qaddafi-like pariah and plunge Russia into international isolation with his now transparently brazen support for Russian insurgents and Russian proxies who are seeking to create a permanent zone on instability in Ukraine.
    It’s now his Lockerbie and his move.

    Adrian Karatnycky is a Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council.








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  10. #55
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    Dutch royals sign book of condolences.



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  11. #56
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    Speech of the Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs at the UN

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  12. #57
    mjw
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    There's a particularly sobering statistic that emphasizes the magnitude of this tragedy: with the reported death count now including 189 passengers from the Netherlands, the MH17 crash has claimed the lives of a greater share of the country's population than the September 11th attacks did in the US.
    The people lost onboard MH17 represent approximately .0011 percent of the total Dutch population of16.8 million.
    Many more Americans were killed in the 9/11 attacks — 2,624 in total — but because the US population is so much larger (it was roughly 285 million in 2001), the death toll represented .0009 percent of the overall population.
    Obviously, it's impossible to compare the immensity of two tragedies like these, but it shows just how much of an impact the crash will have on the small country.
    h/t squarelyrooted

    MH17 claimed a bigger share of the Dutch population than 9/11 did in the US - Vox






    MH17 looting confirmed: Victims' phones answered by strangers, relatives say

    DateJuly 24, 2014 - 6:26AM
    • 6




    The relatives were shocked when they heard the voices, the paper said.


    Telephone companies agreed to waive the usual requirement for a death certificate and agreed to cancel the phone subscriptions, so those who took the phones could not continue to use them.


    There have been several reports of looting at the crash site, which spreads over more than 50 square kilometres and has not been secured because it is in separatist-controlled territory.


    Anyone with the right accreditation, obtained from the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, can roam the site under the watch of the militia.


    Journalists who examined the scene said there was a notable lack of items such as phones, wallets, cameras and jewellery.


    Some footage shot at the scene appears to show one militant taking a ring and putting it in a paper bag.


    Ukraine has also accused local militants of stealing diplomatic papers carried on the flight.




    Read more: MH17 looting confirmed: Victims' phones answered by strangers, relatives say


  13. #58
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    MH17 claimed a bigger share of the Dutch population than 9/11 did in the US - Vox



    Is it possible to allow a tragedy to stand on its own, without pointless comparison to other tragedies?
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    Seriously. It's not a fucking competition, it's a tragedy.
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  15. #60
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    The media do need to stop the numbers game, it's always particularly stark when it comes to school shootings.
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