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Thread: Maylasian Airline has lost contact with a 777

  1. #31
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    Dutch deaths count now 173 amongst which a brilliant AIDS specialist.
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  2. #32
    Elite Member levitt's Avatar
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    Condolences, HWBL. I can't believe it.
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    A Couple from Queensland in Australia lost their son and daughter-in-law when the last plane went missing. Now they have family members on the plane that went down. Fuck thats sad.
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    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    The crazies are coming out of the woodwork now - apparently this is all a plot by the West/USA to discredit Putin.

    I feel heartsick over this, and very worried about what it will lead to.
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  5. #35
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by levitt View Post
    Condolences, HWBL. I can't believe it.
    Thanks. I'm only part Dutch, but we've been living here for a while, now. I just hope nobody I know had loved ones on that plane.

    Quote Originally Posted by exippy View Post
    A Couple from Queensland in Australia lost their son and daughter-in-law when the last plane went missing. Now they have family members on the plane that went down. Fuck thats sad.
    That's insane!

    On the Dutch news a minute ago was an item on one of the tragic losses in this crash: a Dutch mom with her three children were on the flight..... you can't even begin to imagine the grief of the grandparents.
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  6. #36
    Silver Member exippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWBL View Post
    Thanks. I'm only part Dutch, but we've been living here for a while, now. I just hope nobody I know had loved ones on that plane.



    That's insane!

    On the Dutch news a minute ago was an item on one of the tragic losses in this crash: a Dutch mom with her three children were on the flight..... you can't even begin to imagine the grief of the grandparents.
    Yes we have a grandfather and his three grandchildren from Perth who were on it as well...Horrific grief for these families.

  7. #37
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Reports are that amongst the dead are the stepdaughter of a woman who lost her brother and sister in law on the missing MH370. That's some heavy nasty to be hitting the same family.

    HWBL I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. I have a friend who moved to Holland to be with another Dutch friend of mine and I know they are in the same boat.
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  8. #38
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    My hunch/hope is that, at some point, Putin will get his ass handed to him - in SOME way. Globally. Methinks that's why he's now calling for a cease-fire, for both sides to lay down arms and negotiate. I think he's going to get a lot of fingers pointed his way.
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  9. #39
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    189 Dutch casualties according to the last count.
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  10. #40
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Oh hell, there were 80 children on the flight...
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  11. #41
    Silver Member sparkles's Avatar
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    This is simply tragic. My heart goes out to the passengers and crew of this flight and all those who loved them. I feel physically ill thinking about it.
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    Elite Member JadeStar70's Avatar
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    So heart breaking. Prayers to all. It is just horrific.

    I watched an interview with a young Mother and her baby. They were late getting to the airport, and they missed the flight. She was so upset and just sick thinking about what could have happened to them, how they were spared, and the why of it all?....she could hardly speak. She said she has been given a second change. She WAS almost getting physically ill, while she spoke.


    Oh, and on the Stern fan calling in,....I know they do these pranks all the time. But calling into a buy/sell or trade talk show and doing it is one thing,...but come the fuck on!! Why do that to real life emergencies, disasters and tragedies? Have some damn human compassion and heart for cripes sake.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookie View Post
    My hunch/hope is that, at some point, Putin will get his ass handed to him - in SOME way. Globally. Methinks that's why he's now calling for a cease-fire, for both sides to lay down arms and negotiate. I think he's going to get a lot of fingers pointed his way.
    It seems like it's already starting. On the way in to work, I heard Samantha Power (US ambassador to the UN) deliver a devastating indictment of Russia's involvement in this. Going by memory, she said that while Ukraine had this missile system, too, there is no record of them every firing a single missile in the area. She also said that the separatists could not have possibly targeted this plane without Russian assistance. She also read chapter and verse on Russia's escalation of the crisis in the eastern Ukraine, as well as its failure to live up to promises it made. She also reiterated Ukraine's president's plan to protect Russian minority populations living in eastern Ukraine, including broad autonomy for those regions.

    This shootdown follows an increase in targeted sanctions in Russia. I wonder what the international community will try next.
    Last edited by MohandasKGanja; July 18th, 2014 at 10:00 AM. Reason: Had the name wrong...
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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    I can only hope that crew and passengers never knew what hit them. All those children! So many families,so much grief.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    The US is stating it was at 33,000 feet when it was hit by a missile that left a heat signature. That sounds more like Russian hardware in the hands of separatists. Has Putin said anything yet?
    Is this the smoking gun? Footage emerges of BUK missile launcher being smuggled back to Russia and missing TWO rockets

    • Expert believes that MH17 was downed by a missile fired from rebel-held Torez in eastern Ukraine
    • BUK launcher has been pictured rumbling into the town just two hours before the crash
    • Ukraine’s security agency, the SBU, has released recordings of intercepted phone calls
    • Claim they prove Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by a group of Russian-backed Cossack militants
    • Neither recording — which allegedly includes a Russian military intelligence officer — could be independently verified
    • Laughing rebels filmed the plane as it crashed, gleefully bragging 'that was a blast – look at the smoke!'
    • Hillary Clinton said that there 'should be outrage in European capitals' over the downing of the airliner
    • Expert claims that pilot of MH17 'felt uncomfortable' about his route over Ukraine but diverted to hostile airspace
    • Russian news agency RIA Novosti reported the crash at 16.13 Moscow time - 'several minutes before the crash'

    An expert believes that MH17 was downed by a missile fired from rebel-held Torez in eastern Ukraine - and a BUK anti-aircraft launcher has been pictured rumbling into the town just two hours before the crash, leading to speculation that it was this piece of equipment that was used to bring about the tragedy.
    On Friday a missile launcher with two rockets missing was then filmed by Ukrainian intelligence services being smuggled on the back of a truck to Russia.
    Anton Gerashchenko, from Ukraine's interior ministry, said of the missing missiles that 'it's not hard to guess why'.

    Scroll down for video


    +20

    Suspicious: Ukrainian spies reportedly filmed the launcher used in the attack being smuggled to Russia - with two missiles missing

    +20


    A view of what is believed to be a BUK surface-to-air missile battery being driven along a path on July 17 in Torez, Ukraine

    +20


    Launch site? The BUK missile system photographed in Torez hours before MH17 was downed



    +20


    Russian air defense missile system BUK M2 seen at a military show at the international forum in Zhukovsky outside Moscow, in 2010


    +20


    A map showing the distance between the launch site and the MH17 crash site






    Is this SAM, missing 2 missiles, being smuggled out of Ukraine?







    'It was exactly these missiles which brought death to almost 300 innocent passengers of the ill-fated Malaysian Boeing,' he said, according to the Telegraph.



    He continued: 'International terrorist Igor Strelkov, aka Girkin, last night visited Snizhne to settle the situation with the downed Malaysian Boeing.

    'In the night the Buk system, from which the missile was launched, was removed to Russia, where it is likely to be destroyed.'
    He claimed that the 'direct performers of the terrorist attack' are also likely to have been killed to avoid any witnesses.
    The rebels 'happily announced that they had downed the Ukrainian AN-26' when in fact they had shot the Boeing, he said.
    Dr Igor Sutyagin, Research Fellow in Russian Studies from the Royal United Services Institute, believes that MH17 was shot down by rebels based in the 3rd District of Torez.

    Dr Sutyagin said the evidence that Russian separatists were responsible was very strong - and that there's even a suggestion the BUK missile launcher was being manned by soldiers from Russia.




    He said: ‘These separatists boasted on Twitter about capturing an BUK SA11 missile launcher [capable of downing high-flying airliners] on June 29, and several hours before the downing of the plane locals in Torez reported seeing BUK missile launchers and separatist flags around the city.
    ‘Later, there was lots of video posted of the plane falling down and rebels saying that “it was not pointless moving it [the BUK] there”.'
    Dr Sutyagin then underscored the emerging Russian link to the tragedy.
    He said: 'The military leader of the Donetsk Republic, Igor Strelkov, real name Girkin, a Muscovite, a Russian citizen, posts a video of the intercept.'
    This video was taken down once it was discovered that the downed plane was civilian.
    The expert implicated Russia further, revealing that the former commander of Russian Air Force Special Operations Command, a Colonel-General, stated recently in an interview that the separatists did not have the expertise to operate the BUK launchers, that only Russian personnel could do so.
    It's also suspicious, Dr Sutyagin said, that Russian news agency RIA Novosti reported the crash at 16.13 Moscow time, several minutes before the crash actually happened - at 16.20.
    'The plane is safely in the sky, and RIA Novosti publishes information that it has been shot down,' he said.
    Dr Sutyagin also told MailOnline that information had been leaked from a source he was unwilling to name that the pilot of MH17 'felt bad' about his course over Ukranian airspace, so turned south.
    Little did he know, according to Dr Sutyagin, that his plane would then be mistaken by rebels for a Ukrainian government resupply flight.He said: 'There is a Ukrainian mechanised brigade blocked by separatists near the Russian border. It's blocked on three sides by separatists and behind the brigade is the Russian boarder, so they can't get out. The Ukrainians try to resupply them from the air by transport aircraft.
    'Now, the pilot of MH17 said that he "felt bad" and wanted to change course to get out of the danger zone. But several kilometers to the south is a Ukrainian Army heavy transport plane, an IL76, or Candid, which has the same echo as a 777 on a radar screen.
    'The two planes came close. They tried to shoot down the transport delivering supplies to the brigade. They believed that they had been firing at a military plane, but they mistakenly shoot down a civilian airliner.'




    Interpol announced today it would fully assist the investigation of the horror.
    Separatist rebels who control the crash site issued conflicting reports Friday about whether they had found the plane's black boxes or not.

    'No black boxes have been found ... we hope that experts will track them down and create a picture of what has happened,' said Donetsk separatist leader Aleksandr Borodai.

    Yet earlier Friday, an aide to the military leader of Borodai's group said authorities had recovered eight out of 12 recording devices.

    Since planes usually have two black boxes - one for recording flight data and the other for recording cockpit voices - it was not clear what the number 12 referred to.
    Earlier Ukrainian security services claim to have intercepted two phone conversations in which pro-Russian separatists appear to admit to shooting down Flight MH17, railing, 'They shouldn’t be f*****g flying. There is a war going on.'
    The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) reportedly released recordings of the intercepted phone calls between Russian military intelligence officers and Russian-backed Cossack militants to the Kiev Post.
    The phone calls, which could prove damning to Vladimir Putin, are allegedly from minutes after the Boeing 777-200 crashed and were apparently made near the village of Chornukhine, which is 50 miles north-west of Donetsk, near to the border with Russia, where the aircraft came down.
    The first phone call was reportedly made at 4.40pm local time, or 20 minutes after the crash.

    +20



    +20



    Admission of guilt or not? In a recording of an intercept, played to journalists, a Russian (military intelligence officer) called Igor Bezler (left and right) is heard reporting on the downing of the Boeing 777-200 to his superior in Russian military intelligence, Colonel Vasily Geranin (not pictured here)

    On the line allegedly is Igor Bezler, who according to the SBU is a Russian military intelligence officer and commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic.
    He is apparently on the phone to a colonel in the Russian Federation armed forces named Vasili Geranin, explaining that the plane has gone down.
    The SBU also released to the Kiev Post another telephone conversation between two militants identified only as 'Major' and 'Grek' who have apparently returned from the crash site.
    This phone call takes place 40 minutes after the phone call which allegedly took place between Bezler and Geranin
    Putin lays blame on Ukrainian government after MH17 tragedy

    A third part of the conversation that involves the 'Major' and 'Grek' seems to bring in Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin, who suggests that the Malaysian Airlines plane must have been carrying spies, otherwise it had no business flying in that airspace.




    During the phone call between 'Grek' and the 'Major' they exclaim, 'holy s***' when they realize their error in shooting down a passenger jet.
    Indeed, Reuters reported that Ukraine's state security chief accused two Russian military intelligence officers of involvement with pro-Russian rebels in the downing of a Malaysian airliner on Thursday, releasing chilling testimony of what he called an 'inhuman crime.'
    SBU chief Valentyn Nalivaychenko based his allegation on intercepted telephone conversations between the two officers and pro-Russian fighters, one of whom referred to seeing 'a sea of women and children' in the wreckage of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

    +20





    Smoke and debris believed to be from flight MH17 falling to Earth


    'We will do everything for the Russian military who carried out this crime to be punished,' Nalivaychenko told journalists, who were shown video and audio transcripts of the recordings. 'The terrorists will not go on dancing on corpses.'




    In a recording played to journalists of a conversation said to have taken place at 4.33 pm Kiev time, a rebel fighter going by the nom de guerre of 'Major' is heard telling another comrade called 'Grek' that a group of fighters had brought the airliner down.
    'The plane broke up in the air, near the Petropavlovskaya mines. The first (casualty) has been found. It was a woman. A civilian,' he says.
    At 5.42 pm 'Major' acknowledges the plane was civilian: 'Hell. It's almost 100 percent certain that it's a civilian plane.'




    Arrival: The self-proclaimed Prime Minister of the pro-Russian separatist 'Donetsk People's Republic' Alexander Borodai (centre) arrives on the site of the crash



    Asked if there were many people on board, he replies in the affirmative with a swearword, adding: 'The bits (of the plane) were falling down in the streets ... There were the bits of couches, chairs, bodies.'
    Asked if any weapons were found on board, 'Major' says: 'No - Civilian things, medical things, towels, toilet paper.'
    He says ID documents of an Indonesian student had been found.
    In another recording of an intercept, played to journalists, a Russian (military intelligence officer) called Igor Bezler is heard reporting on the downing to his superior in Russian military intelligence, Colonel Vasily Geranin.
    'A plane has just been shot down. It was the 'Mine-laying' group ... They've gone to search and photograph the plane. It is smoking,' Bezler tells Gernanin at 4.40 p.m.
    Asked 'How long ago?' he replies: 'About 30 minutes ago.'
    THE FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THE ALLEGED REBEL CONVERSATION THAT COULD PROVE DAMNING TO PUTIN AND RUSSIA

    A phone call between rebels where they are heard to say ‘holy s***’ when they realized their error was intercepted by Ukraine’s security services, according to a Ukrainian newspaper.
    Militants nicknamed ‘Major’ and ‘Greek’ were recorded speaking as ‘Major’ inspected the crash site and found only ‘civilian items’.
    Also on the line were Igor Bezler, who authorities says is a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, and a colonel in the main intelligence department of the general headquarters of the armed forces of the Russian Federation, Vasili Geranin.
    The unverified transcript was posted online by the Kiev Post newspaper:
    Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).
    Vasili Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?
    IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. Its smoking.
    VG: How many minutes ago?
    IB: About 30 minutes ago.






    Allegations: This is a grab from the video provided to the Kiev Post. Pictured are Igor Bezler and Vasili Geranin. While (right) are likenesses of 'Major' and 'Grek'


    SBU comment: After examining the site of the plane the terrorists come to the conclusion that they have shot down a civilian plane. The next part of the conversation took place about 40 minutes later.
    'Major': These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.
    'Grek': Yes, Major.
    'Major': The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first '200'. We have found the first '200' - which is code for a civilian.
    'Grek': Well, what do you have there?
    'Major': In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.
    'Grek': Are many people there?
    'Major': Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).
    'Grek': What kind of aircraft?







    Official: A third part of the conversation that involves the 'Major' and 'Greek' seems to bring in Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin, who suggests that the Malaysian Airlines plane must have been carrying spies




    'Major': I haven’t ascertained this. I haven’t been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.
    'Grek': Is there anything left of the weapon?
    'Major': Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.
    'Grek': Are there documents?
    'Major': Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.
    Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It’s a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.
    They say on TV it’s AN-26 transport plane, but they say it’s written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine’s territory?
    Nikolay Kozitsin: That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on.


    Pro-Russian rebels 'discuss downing of Malaysian jet'

    The pilot of MH17 radioed that he 'felt uncomfortable' about the route he was flying while over Ukraine and tragically altered his course to hostile territory, where Russian separatist missile operators mistook his plane for a government military transport aircraft, according to an expert.



    Dr Igor Sutyagin, Research Fellow in Russian Studies from the Royal United Services Institute, believes that MH17 was shot down by rebels based in the 3rd District of Torez, in eastern Ukraine, using a ground-to-air SA11 missile system .
    He told MailOnline that information had been leaked from a source he was unwilling to name that the pilot of MH17 'felt bad' about his course over Ukrainian airspace, so turned south.
    Little did he know, according to Dr Sutyagin, that his plane would then be mistaken by rebels for a Ukrainian government resupply flight.
    He said: 'There is a Ukrainian mechanised brigade blocked by separatists near the Russian boarder. It's blocked on three sides by separatists and behind the brigade is the Russian boarder, so they can't get out. The Ukrainians try to resupply them from the air by transport aircraft.
    'Now, the pilot of MH17 said that he "felt bad" and wanted to change course to get out of the danger zone. But several kilometers to the south is a Ukrainian Army heavy transport plane, an IL76, or Candid, which has the same echo as a 777 on a radar screen.
    'The two planes came close. They tried to shoot down the transport delivering supplies to the brigade. They believed that they had been firing at a military plane, but they mistakenly shoot down a civilian airliner.'


    In a third conversation, a rebel fighter says: 'It turned out to be a passenger plane. It fell in Hrabove area. There's a sea of women and children ...'
    He adds: 'But what was it (the Malaysian airlines flight) doing over Ukraine?'
    The man he is talking to replies: 'That means they've called up spies. No way to flights. This is war.'
    'Okay, understood,' he replies.
    'They discuss Russian saboteurs bringing down a passenger plane. They discuss the number of victims. We have fixed this conversation as taking place at 4.20. Now you know who carried out this inhuman crime against humanity,' Nalivaychenko said.
    'We will open up to all possible channels, the means of this crime being objectively investigated, and the officers of the Russian Federation who carried out this crime being punished.'
    Russia's Interfax news agency quoted Donetsk rebel spokesman Sergey Kavtaradze as denying that the intercepted phone conversations were genuine.
    Yesterday it emerged that rebels laughed as they filmed the plane crashing, gleefully bragging ‘that was a blast – look at the smoke!’ while a fireball rose from the debris.
    One of the voices is believed to be Strelkov, who then penned a triumphant war cry on Twitter, saying: ‘We warned you – do not fly in 'our sky'.’
    A sickening mobile phone video posted online shows a pall of black smoke billowing over the crash site as three rebels provide an excited commentary.
    The extraordinary footage – apparently filmed by the shooters themselves – charts the terrible final moments of the doomed airliner.
    Their camera does not zoom in enough to see the plummeting plane in the sky, but the rebels’ voices can be heard talking happily of ‘black spots – these are the parts flying’, suggesting it fell to earth in several pieces.
    A voice believed to be that of Strelkov – dubbed ‘Igor the Terrible’ – announces: ‘The plane was hit!’ He adds: ‘Look at those black spots, these are the parts, flying … it was a blast … look, look, black smoke!’
    Another rebel, possibly referring to the missile system, laughs and says: ‘It was worth bringing this thing, wasn't it?’
    None of the rebels can be seen in their horrific film, but it appears to be genuine because at the time only they seemed to know what was happening. Ordinary life carries on in the village where they are standing. A bus trundles by and an unsuspecting villager is seen wandering past the camera.
    Shortly after the passenger plane was downed, Strelkov – seen smirking in propaganda photos – tweeted a boastful message claiming responsibility.
    At the time, he apparently believed he had shot down an Antonov-26 military plane of the Ukrainian Air Force, saying it landed near a mine named Progress.
    His chilling message read: ‘In the area Torez we just hit down An-26, it’s lying somewhere in the mine 'Progress'.
    ‘We warned you – do not fly in 'our sky'. And here is the video confirmation of the 'bird dropping'.
    ‘Bird fell near the mine, the residential sector was not disturbed. Civilians are not injured.’
    Later as the horror became clear, the tweet was deleted.


    +20


    Boast: Ukraine separatist Igor Strelkov said on Twitter ‘We warned you – do not fly in 'our sky'. And here is the video confirmation of the 'bird dropping'

    Former US secretary of state Hillary Clinton said European leaders should put more pressure on Mr Putin if Russia was involved in the incident.
    She told PBS's Charlie Rose there should be 'outrage in European capitals' over Russian aggression in the region but ultimately it was up to Europe to take the lead.
    She said: 'The questions I'd be asking is, number one, who could have shot it down? Who had the equipment? It's obviously an anti-aircraft missile. Who could have had the expertise to do that? Because commercial airlines are big targets, but by the time they got over that part of Ukraine they should have been high, so it takes some planning.
    'And the Ukrainian government has been quick to blame it on terrorists, which is their name for the Russian insurgents. And there does seem to be some growing awareness that it probably had to be Russian insurgents.
    'Now, how we determine that will require some forensics, but then if there is evidence pointing in that direction, the equipment had to have come from Russia. What more the Russians may or may not have done, we don't know.
    'Europeans have to be the ones to take the lead on this. It was a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur over European territory. There should be outrage in European capitals.'
    Mrs Clinton endorsed stepped-up US sanctions against Russia but said they would not 'necessarily restrain' Mr Putin or change his calculations.




    Read more: Is this flight MH17's smoking gun? Footage emerges of BUK missile launcher being moved into place in Russian separatist stronghold just two hours before MH17 was shot out of the sky | Mail Online
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