Maternity wards to widen delivery-room doors for obese mothers

[Penny Lane]

Originally Posted by Rica

BMI is a flawed and shouldnt be taken as being an accurate assessment of if someone is obese or not

Neither should dress size for that matter.

[Dallas_Munro]

Originally Posted by nwgirl

Late to the party as usual.

Can I just call total bullshit on fattie bashers actually giving a rats ass about fatties' health? Or whether they're a drain on the system? Puuuuh-leeze. You can kiss my fat size 12/14 ass.

You're not fat. And you are most definitely not obese. So you have no grounds for taking any of this personally.

And as far as this statement of yours is concerned:
"Can I just call total bullshit on fattie bashers actually giving a rats ass about fatties' health?"

Fuck you. Because yeah I actually *do* give a rat's ass about OBESE people. I don't use derogatory terms like "fatties" so I'll assume you're talking about actual OBESE people, right? Not like chubby, or plump, or slightly overweight people like yourself?

Originally Posted by nwgirl

And what, if you have a medical issue that you "caused" yourself, that means you don't get special accommodations or treatment? Smokers beware - better not get emphysema, cause oxygen is reserved for those that didn't do it to themselves. Alkie whose liver is shot? No meds for you. Not paying attention when you're driving and you end up a quadriplegic? Scoot your ass around with your chin cause wheelchairs are only for those that didn't do it to themselves.

You know how many skinny fucking people I see eating fried food, fast food, high carb meals, drinking every night whose shopping carts are full of processed foods, and are on a list of meds that's longer than my arm? Or how many skinny people are on the dole, have kids in foster care, get free or reduced lunches, free healthcare, free or reduced housing, energy assistance and are in general, a drain to the system? Too many to count. But that's okay, cause at least they're not fat.

Just cause you're skinny (whether it's cause you were blessed with a high metabolism or good genes or cause you work out every day and think a treat is raw carrots), doesn't mean that you're any fucking better, healthier or less of a drain on the system than a fattie. What? You think fatties single handedly keep the junk and fast food, pharmaceutical and welfare industries in business? Think again.

Who the fuck said they think they're better than a fat or obese person just because they're skinny?? Who??? It certainly wasn't me. So you better not be including me in that statement. What you oughta do is quote whoever it is that said that shit and call THEM out on it cuz I'm about two seconds from incurring an infraction and telling you EXACTLY what I think of you and your post.

Originally Posted by nwgirl

The fucking ignorance and intolerance of some people is truly astounding.

Whose ignorance? Whose intolerance? You better be damn specific before you go making generalizations and bash each and every person that does not agree with your point of you. Cuz it's about to be on up in heah between me and you.

Originally Posted by nwgirl

Just say that fat is gross, disgusting, hard on the eyes and scares you cause it's your worst fear to ever be considered fat. But don't fucking insult my intelligence by hiding behind 'not healthy' 'drain on the system' or best yet 'fatties have unhealthy children.' Jesus Christ.

Unless you're a murderer, rapist, kid fucker or other miscreant, you should have unrestricted access to whatever care you need, without being shamed or discriminated against. If that means some damn doors need to be widened, then so be it. I'm sure most of those people who need wider doors, or bigger beds, or vetrinarian scales to get weighed wouldn't begrudge skinny people getting treatment they need, even if meant some special accommodations needed to be made even if *gasp* it was something you caused yourself.

Clearly, you have issues. If you are this touchy about an article about hospital doors being made wider to accommodate OBESE people, you should deal with your issues instead of taking your anger out on us. Because you are not angry with us. You are clearly angry with yourself because YOU don't like you. Because YOU think you are fat, gross, disgusting, hard on the eyes, whatever. I do not think that about you, so you can take your anger and your issues and shove 'em where the sun don't shine.

[Novice]

Originally Posted by Dallas_Munro

You're not fat. And you are most definitely not obese. So you have no grounds for taking any of this personally.

Erm.. what is the BMI in the US for Obese? and Morbidly Obese?

I think I've said before I'm 5'8" (and a bit, but not quite one half) and am a US 14 - I'm classed as obese in the UK due to my BMI. I'm reasonably stocky, part Polish (ie you can starve me for a week and I'll still put on weight! Me and cockroaches, we'll survive the next holocaust!) and seriously struggle to keep my weight within UK "healthy" guidelines.
28 is obese in the UK.....


And, I've said it before and no doubt I'll say it again.... the doors in victorian hospitals aren't built to accomodate a modern hospital bed (did beds even move in victorian times?) modern equipment and a care giver.


I appreciated that NWGirl sounded angry, but if one is struggling with stuff then to come here and see people who clearly have no idea what they're talking about (and I'm not meaning you here Dallas) pontificating about obese people... well, if I gave a rat's ass about anyone here I might take it personally too.

[nwgirl]

Originally Posted by Dallas_Munro

You're not fat. And you are most definitely not obese. So you have no grounds for taking any of this personally.

And as far as this statement of yours is concerned:
"Can I just call total bullshit on fattie bashers actually giving a rats ass about fatties' health?"

Fuck you. Because yeah I actually *do* give a rat's ass about OBESE people. I don't use derogatory terms like "fatties" so I'll assume you're talking about actual OBESE people, right? Not like chubby, or plump, or slightly overweight people like yourself?


Who the fuck said they think they're better than a fat or obese person just because they're skinny?? Who??? It certainly wasn't me. So you better not be including me in that statement. What you oughta do is quote whoever it is that said that shit and call THEM out on it cuz I'm about two seconds from incurring an infraction and telling you EXACTLY what I think of you and your post.


Whose ignorance? Whose intolerance? You better be damn specific before you go making generalizations and bash each and every person that does not agree with your point of you. Cuz it's about to be on up in heah between me and you.


Clearly, you have issues. If you are this touchy about an article about hospital doors being made wider to accommodate OBESE people, you should deal with your issues instead of taking your anger out on us. Because you are not angry with us. You are clearly angry with yourself because YOU don't like you. Because YOU think you are fat, gross, disgusting, hard on the eyes, whatever. I do not think that about you, so you can take your anger and your issues and shove 'em where the sun don't shine.

Please...send me a PM so you can say exactly what you want. No need to get an infraction. I don't know who the fuck you think you are, but you wanna start shit, do your best honey. I can say whatever the fuck I want, in whatever way I want to say it. Got it?

Wanna talk about taking something personally, did I call out any of your posts? (But thank you for letting me know what I can and can't take personally - I do so appreciate it.) If you didn't say any of the shit I responded to, then what do you have your panties in such a wad for? I didn't take the time to go through and quote every post that contained something I wanted to respond to, through the multiple pages of this thread, but if what I said didn't apply to you, then move the fuck on.

I'm not sure why my not being obese means that I can't have an opinion about the discrimination and fat hate that I see every day all around me. Including on this board and in this thread. But again, thanks for letting me know what's appropriate.

No one has to actually say the words that they think they're better than someone else for it to be crystal clear what the fuck is going on. And I'm not touchy about doors having to be widened or the article itself. I'm touchy about fat haters who hide behind the "I just care about their health" bullshit line that is trotted out to excuse flat out hate and discrimination. If that's not you, then feel free to move the fuck along. If that is you, then fuck you right back.

I have issues cause I point out that all the fat bashing points (not healthy, drain on the system, unhealthy babies, etc) going on in this thread is not limited to just fat people? Really? Please - enlighten me how that equals me having issues. I like me just fine. What I don't like is how fat people are treated, talked about, and made to feel like less of a human being because they're fat. Again, if you don't treat people that way and didn't make posts to that effect - then obviously my post was not directed at you.

[Dallas_Munro]

Originally Posted by Novice

No shit, Sherlock - but it is.

And those of us who have higher BMIs have to put up with the shit spewed in this thread on a daily basis.

No-one talks about the slim girls that take coke or throw up to stay that way, and I've seen a lot of that in my time.

Slim girls like Kate Moss and Lohan that do coke get talked about all the time. And I dare say that each and every poster on this board would agree that being obese isn't healthy and neither is being bulimic. So I feel you, I get it, but I disagree.

How's about before this thread continues, we all come to a consensus? The first step would be to differentiate between "fat people" and "obese people." Or is that the problem? What one calls fat, another calls average. What one calls obese, another calls fat.

So what is obesity? Is it simply having excessive body fat, as Merriam-Webster defines it? Or is it "having so much fat that your health is in danger," as WebMD defines it? I'm inclined to agree with WebMD. And I refuse to believe that a size 12/14 person has so much body fat that their health is in danger. *I* am a size 12-14, and *my* health is not in danger by the amount of body fat I have. Which is why I gave it to nwgirl the way I did. I even took into account that I might be taller than her, even though we're the same size.

Novice, you get offended by the mean things people say about fat/obese people. And I get that. I don't like it either. I'd probably be even madder if I read every post in this thread, but I haven't. So here's a from me if I've upset you. You know me. You know I don't harbor any ill will or ill thoughts about overweight folk, fat folk, obese folk, whatever.

[McJag]

Good grief! I have wandered into a bar brawl.

[Novice]

Originally Posted by Dallas_Munro

Slim girls like Kate Moss and Lohan that do coke get talked about all the time. And I dare say that each and every poster on this board would agree that being obese isn't healthy and neither is being bulimic. So I feel you, I get it, but I disagree.

How's about before this thread continues, we all come to a consensus? The first step would be to differentiate between "fat people" and "obese people." Or is that the problem? What one calls fat, another calls average. What one calls obese, another calls fat.

So what is obesity? Is it simply having excessive body fat, as Merriam-Webster defines it? Or is it "having so much fat that your health is in danger," as WebMD defines it? I'm inclined to agree with WebMD. And I refuse to believe that a size 12/14 person has so much body fat that their health is in danger. *I* am a size 12-14, and *my* health is not in danger by the amount of body fat I have. Which is why I gave it to nwgirl the way I did. I even took into account that I might be taller than her, even though we're the same size.

Novice, you get offended by the mean things people say about fat/obese people. And I get that. I don't like it either. I'd probably be even madder if I read every post in this thread, but I haven't. So here's a from me if I've upset you. You know me. You know I don't harbor any ill will or ill thoughts about overweight folk, fat folk, obese folk, whatever.

But BMI only takes into account weight and height - not how much muscle one has etc etc... Lets not forget that the original article is probably from the Daily Mail, soooooo.... a BMI of over 28 is obese

Here we go...


underweight (bmi<20)
normal weight (bmi 20-25)
overweight (bmi>25)

However, elsewhere... its different...

Height

Obesity Point

Ft/inches Meters

Pounds

Kilos

4.10
4.11
5.0
5.1
5.2
5.3
5.4
5.5
5.6
5.7
5.8
5.9
5.10
5.11
6.0 1.47m
1.50m
1.52m
1.55m
1.57m
1.60m
1.63m
1.65m
1.68m
1.70m
1.73m
1.75m
1.78m
1.80m
1.83m 143 pounds
148 pounds
153 pounds
159 pounds
164 pounds
169 pounds
175 pounds
180 pounds
186 pounds
191 pounds
197 pounds
203 pounds
209 pounds
215 pounds
221 pounds 65.0kg
67.3kg
69.5kg
72.3kg
74.5kg
76.8kg
79.5kg
81.8kg
84.5kg
86.8kg
89.5kg
92.3kg
95.0kg
97.7kg
100.4kg Note: All weights are approximate.


And, no, Dallas, you've not upset me. Actually the only thing that "upset" me is people's ignorance in this thread, and the way that they post such idiotic statements when, in actual fact, their time would be better used researching what they're actually talking about....

Oh and I meant that I know a lot of girls that use coke as a weight control drug as well as recreational, which strikes me as unhealth because they're doing no exercise/cardio to improve their health, they're just looking at the externals.

[McJag]

You can lose weight drinking Cokes? Now my head is spinning.

[Novice]

Silly mare! Nooooo McJag, snorting it (and please, no jokes about how the bubbles get up your nose!)

[McJag]

Originally Posted by Novice

Silly mare! Nooooo McJag, snorting it (and please, no jokes about how the bubbles get up your nose!)

I'm taking my teddy bear & going home!

[Rica]

Originally Posted by Novice

Erm.. what is the BMI in the US for Obese? and Morbidly Obese?

I think I've said before I'm 5'8" (and a bit, but not quite one half) and am a US 14 - I'm classed as obese in the UK due to my BMI.

Why do you listen to what other people tell you?
As Dallas said, unless you are obese enough to require doorways widened for you, you should not be offended by the comments in this thread.

[buttmunch]

Good grief! I have wandered into a bar brawl.

Me too. I don't know what the hell happened after I last checked in on this thread a few days ago. I do think BMI has been slightly discredited but then I don't weigh myself or anything like that. I just see if my favorite jeans fit and am happy if they do.

[Chilly Willy]

Originally Posted by Rica

Are you implying all I do is sit at my computer and drink and get high? Because I dont even smoke weed...

And there is a difference between someone with a little bit of fat and being so obese that you need a door widened for you. In this thread I've been talking about those people who are so fat they need doors widened. Unless you are currently undergoing renovations to widen the doors in your house, I'm not talking to you.

The point is, you don't contribute jackshit to the system, but complain about people DRAINING the system.

The point is, you call people "fat", yet complain about being called "fat" yourself.

The point is, you don't work or pay taxes, but you call ALL obese people lazy. From what you told us about your life, you get drunk every day, you play online games 24/7, you travel to the Netherlands to hunt an alleged bf, but YOU DON'T WORK.

How dare you be so judgemental?

Originally Posted by Rica

Since some of the posts in this thread are coming very close to personal attacks, I'm not going to post here anymore.

If you can't take the heat, get your fat, lazy ass out of the kitchen.

And no, I would never call anyone fat or lazy, let alone a large group of the general population, but you INSIST it's perfectly acceptable to do so, so here you go.

Und just FYI: No, I'm not obese. I have a BMI of 18. But my sister is obese. And guess what? She works her ass off, she is a kindergarten teacher who raises other people's children. She pays a lot of taxes. She gave birth to three children (without having to get the doors of the maternity ward widened). She is raising those three boys to be decent and CONTRIBUTING members to our society as well.

Now, would you like to compare my sisters contribution to society to YOURS? Because that's what you insist on when you call her lazy and blame her for draining the system.

Lemme tell you, you look like CRAP compared to my fat, lazy sister.

[Novice]

Originally Posted by Rica

Why do you listen to what other people tell you?
As Dallas said, unless you are obese enough to require doorways widened for you, you should not be offended by the comments in this thread.

1. FYI due to fertility treatment it was my Dr that was telling me my BMI. He is not allowed to treat people over a certain BMI - and before you talk about "drains on the health service", etc I'll have you know that I was paying for this treatment out of my own pocket from money that I had worked to EARN. Not public health, not insurance.

2. Again, you are incorrect. I seem to remember a post from you complaining about some other poster at some other board calling you fat and your upset reaction to that.... Why so? Or do you need to have doorways widen for you to go through them?

3. I think you'll find my post had the works "well, if I gave a rat's ass about anyone here I might take it personally too. " So do your research Becky!

4. What DOES upset me is "the only thing that "upset" me is people's ignorance in this thread, and the way that they post such idiotic statements when, in actual fact, their time would be better used researching what they're actually talking about...." So if you are going to quote or respond to my posts, please have the courtesy to read the fucking things first.

5. It is a well known fat that BMI does NOT take into account the % fat or % muscle; however, certain procedures in the UK are limited to certain BMIs. Fortunately some Drs see the limitations and acknowledge that.
Hell I had a Dr when I had a BMI well within a normal range who told me I was overweight. I saw a nurse after and she measured the chart and pointed out that a) I wasn't & b) that Dr was the Dr of a major professional sports team.... He's use to seeing hyper-fit (as in World Class) atheletes. What you see on a regular basis warps you view of "the norm".

[Rica]

Do you think I care how much you weigh? All I did was point out a fact, people with health issues related to their weight are a drain on the medical system, in any country. It's called an obesity epidemic for a reason.
I'm not ignorant, I'm just stating the facts. People who are obese have many health issues that dissappear once they reach a more heathly weight. However, IMO, things like BMI is a load of shit. It is not accurate. But if someone needs a fucking door widened for them, then they have problems.
As I said before, has anyone on this forum required a door to be widened? no? didnt think so. Stop crying and bitching. Seriously. There is no such thing as "fat bashing". If you want to get all like that, then lets point out the other bashing thats going on. The skinny bashing. The alcholic bashing. The drugs bashing. Religion bashing. The list goes on.
If you are truely happy with your body, you wouldnt feel the need to defend it to someone who you will most likely never meet IRL, and who doesnt give a flying fuck what you look like. However, if you feel the need to get all mad and upset over comments made on the internet, then you've got some issues you need to sort out.

And BTW Chilly, my reference to personal attacks being made in this thread is comments made by posters that can be seen as insults to me. As far as I'm away, harassing posters in that way is against the board rules. You should also watch what you say, calling me fat and lazy IS a personal attack. An uncalled for one at that.