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Thread: Malaysia Airlines flight to Beijing disappears with 239 on board

  1. #271
    Gold Member manningmsj's Avatar
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    I've wondered if the "hard turn" was a deliberate action or maybe something they did while suffering the effects of hypoxia? Flygirl mentioned before that one of the first symptoms is euphoria, so is it at all possible the cabin lost air pressure and incapacitated them and either a passenger made the turn after finding them passed out (without knowing how to use the comm system) or the pilots did it without realizing? Or maybe they made the turn on purpose but weren't fully cognizant of why or where they were going? Is it possible one of them did it and didn't even understand why?

    This question is mostly for Flygirl, by the way, but obviously anyone can answer. I know no one here is an expert, though.
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  2. #272
    Elite Member yanna's Avatar
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    The hypoxia theory reminds me of the Helios crash in Athens, back in 2005. That was a very creepy one, just a ghost plane flying into Greek airspace. We really didn't know what to do with it. In that case the effects of hypoxia were becoming apparent in the pilot's last communications and there was also a flight attentant that tried to take over. He had been using a portable oxygen unit. I just don't understand what kind of effect was so sudden and catastrophic that it incapacitated everyone and they couldn't call so much as a mayday. It had to be that a fire destroyed the controls but in that case why was the auto pilot unaffected for several hours? I think we might have to accept that it might never be found or that it may be found years and years later. The ocean is a big place.
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  3. #273
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    Poor families.

    It seems like they are close to finding some debris. At least that's a start.
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  4. #274
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    Whether or not the debris is in any way related is the question.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

    -- Stephen Hawking

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanna View Post
    The hypoxia theory reminds me of the Helios crash in Athens, back in 2005. That was a very creepy one, just a ghost plane flying into Greek airspace. We really didn't know what to do with it. In that case the effects of hypoxia were becoming apparent in the pilot's last communications and there was also a flight attentant that tried to take over. He had been using a portable oxygen unit. I just don't understand what kind of effect was so sudden and catastrophic that it incapacitated everyone and they couldn't call so much as a mayday. It had to be that a fire destroyed the controls but in that case why was the auto pilot unaffected for several hours? I think we might have to accept that it might never be found or that it may be found years and years later. The ocean is a big place.
    Yep. I think that it was a ghost plane but my biggest question is about the incapacitation. I just can't see it happening in a way that it was so uniform that some passengers did not notice that other passengers were unconscious and therefore did not pull out their cell phones and try to call the authorities or loved ones. That's where I do think that there is some kind of cover up, and that is that someone communicated or attempted communication, words or signals were picked up, most likely by Malaysian authorities and were either ignored, or attempt(s) were made to deal with the situation which were unsuccessful and they are not acknowledging it to save face.

    My other big question is about communication ability. I know that you are not supposed to use cell phones, but I thought that cell phones are mostly operable when you are in / over a populated area and bodies of water that are close to populated areas. My question is that even if passengers with cell phones could not actually make calls, wouldn't them attempting to make calls be detected as interference and deemed some kind of anomaly? I would think that out of 200+ passengers that there would have been enough who would have noticed others being incapacitated before they themselves became completely incapacitated, and that among them a few would have tried to place calls.
    Last edited by dougie; March 24th, 2014 at 12:01 PM.

  6. #276
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Most of the pilots CNN has on are now saying accident.
    Also,last night in a flight silulator thy showed what the "hard turn" felt like. Nothing. It was slow and no passenger would have been alarmed. Seems pretty clear there was a problem. They were headed back.
    Also,10 to 12000 feet is the standard to make sure the passengers have oxygen.
    Those pilots were fighting whatever it was until they blacked out.
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  7. #277
    Elite Member Moongirl's Avatar
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    ^^CNN is also saying that the plane made a sudden drop from 35,000 to 12,000 feet, indicating some type of emergency.

  8. #278
    Elite Member dougie's Avatar
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    To me the issue is not that a hard turn would have been dramatic or traumatic but it definitely would been noticeable by those who were knowledgeable about the flight path and cared enough to pay attention. More than a few of the passengers had to notice that for whatever reason the plane turned and started heading west when it should have been headed northeast to China. If people were on the plane and conscious then one of the pilots / flight attendants would have announced something to the effect that the plane was experiencing mechanical difficulty and needed to head back. If that were the case then air traffic control / "the authorities" would have also known that there was a problem, and therefore it's been known all along that the plane encountered some kind of difficulty but for whatever reason the authorities were unwilling to be forthcoming about that.

    Another question I have is regarding whose airspace did the plane travel through? I don't think that the plane could get out into the open sea without flying over Thailand or Indonesia. IIRC Thailand said that they detected the plane but it was detected when it was still over Malaysia.
    Last edited by dougie; March 24th, 2014 at 12:20 PM.

  9. #279
    Elite Member BelledeJour's Avatar
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    So now they stated that the plane has ended in the Indian Ocean and that nobody survived. Basically it's nothing new...still so sad for all the families.

  10. #280
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    At least now the families know there is no hope. Bless them all. It is the most horrific day of their lives.
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  11. #281
    A*O
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    let's be honest, it was pretty obvious the plane had gone down and everyone was killed, we just didn't know the circs. I'm sure the families were hoping against hope for a different outcome but I suspect the authorities have decided to put an end to that by finally telling the truth.
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  12. #282
    Elite Member Chalet's Avatar
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    I remember the night of 9/11 probably around 11 pm, I was watching the local news. There was a reporter camped outside of a downtown hospital waiting for ambulances to pull up with injured people from Ground Zero. He was so earnest and I guess he had a job to do but I was thinking "is he serious"? Those poor victims are dust in the wind.

  13. #283
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    let's be honest, it was pretty obvious the plane had gone down and everyone was killed, we just didn't know the circs. I'm sure the families were hoping against hope for a different outcome but I suspect the authorities have decided to put an end to that by finally telling the truth.
    I know. But so many people had so many hopes. I really think some had convinced themselves they were being held hostage or any thing other than gone. I feel for those left behind.
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  14. #284
    Elite Member mtlebay's Avatar
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    ^^ I agree. I read after one woman was told the news today, that she still thought her husband was alive. She now thinks that his soul was with her. As well, I'm still thinking about the man in his 50s/60s who I saw on tv last week, a reporter asked if he thought his family was still alive, he said, "Yes.", they asked why, he replied, "No one can tell me I lost my entire family". He was the first person I thought of when the news was announced today.
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  15. #285
    Gold Member manningmsj's Avatar
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    ^^^ I agree. I think a lot of people do that in the case of a disappearance. Even with something like a missing plane where the possibilities are pretty limited and the answer seems obvious, it's still hard to accept without concrete evidence. It's probably comforting for a while, imagining the abducted toddler is off somewhere and being taken care of but doesn't remember you or the missing brother has amnesia and can't find his way home. Even on the smaller scale, the old cat that ran away is living with some new family and still alive somewhere at 25 years old. And it's fine on the small scale to never know, maybe it's even better. But for something like this or the other situations, it will only spare the grief for so long and you're trapped in the interim.

    Logically, these people have probably known what happened all along, but grief is a tough barrier for reason to break through. I think every day it probably gets harder to face because it lets all that hope and denial ruminate, versus getting easier as the possibilities dwindle. Like everyone's been saying, it seems so strange that nothing has been found. So for the families, every day without answers probably makes it easier to give into the conspiracies and "what-ifs," and harder to accept what they know in their heads. I imagine that's what it'd be like for me. The other possibilities may be less rational, but they're also more inviting. Who wouldn't abandon their common sense for a brighter alternative in this situation? Every day things may look darker to us, but to them the scale probably tips in the other direction. It gets harder to see the truth, which will only compound the shock when it finally comes out. It'll be like losing them all over again. And never knowing would be the worst thing, IMO, because unlike a lost pet or something you can't just move on or live with the mystery forever. You'll never be able to stop wondering or trying to figure it out and you can never fully grieve without an answer. Very few people have the emotional strength to voluntarily let go of hope and move forward, even if they know deep down hope is gone. That's why my heart breaks for these families. They're in limbo.
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