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Thread: Malaysia Airlines flight to Beijing disappears with 239 on board

  1. #196
    Elite Member SHELLEE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Lol I need to send that to my 2 non moon landing believers.
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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Just a question of time.
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    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    Too bad the 777 only has one engine per wing. Must be some other kind of plane on the moon.
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  4. #199
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    These are my current theories. Somebody debunk them for me.

    #1 aircraft hijacked. Hijacking verified by the "good guy" left in cockpit. Shot down intentionally to prevent greater loss of life through an attack. Erroneous search iintentionally allowed to continue while covert cleanup operation conducted quickly. Stupid? Probably. But you can't convince me to this day Flight 93 wasn't somehow taken down. Especially after hearing Maj. Heather Penney, an f16 fighter pilot, talk about her kamikaze orders to take the flight down . F-16 pilot was ready to give her life on Sept. 11 - The Washington Post As unbelievable as it seems today, there were no armed jets on the entire east coast so she was "chosen" to kamikaze her jet into the 757. Ejection was not an option because the fighter could miss the 757 if left uncontrolled. The craziest part is her dad is an airline pilot, and he could have been the one she had taken down. Anyway, sorry...that was a long tangent.

    #2 (again highly improbable) After multiple failures which caused navigational and performance issues, the jet was ditched successfully in the Indian Ocean (capt sully--Hudson river style) Because it was landed so skillfully, the airplane was in one complete piece (which explains no debris trail) and most survived. The crew did not survive, and the surviving passengers were ignorant of how to deploy the life rafts. The jet sank in one piece, and no bodies were discovered because six days were spent searching in the wrong body of water. Survivors' corpses succumbed to nature and victims of the crash were strapped in and sank with the jet. Any takers?


  5. #200
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    The only scenario that explains everything we've been told (and there's a LOT we aren't being told IMO) is that the plane went "rogue" either by pilot or hijacker and turned back towards Kuala Lumpur. Authorities feared another 9/11 - plane flying into the famous Petronas towers in KL? - so it was shot down. Searchers were directed to the wrong place while any cleanup carried out and/or covered up and that continues.

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  6. #201
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Something is way off here. Malaysia has given out constant misinformation. Over and over. I am beginning to think they did shoot it down. Something to explain what they are doing. Poor relatives.
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    Here's an odd question. If it's true that there's actual misinformation and mishandling of this disappearance, is there any way another country can step in and demand to assist in this investigation? China, perhaps? Since the plane was heading to Beijing? Not checking out the pilots home for over a week seemed like a pretty bad call. I would think within 24 hours of the disappearance, someone would have paid a visit to the homes. Even if these men are completely innocent, which they may be, it seems like the least they would do is start with the pilot's and their homes.

  8. #203
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    I think the apparent chaos, omissions and illogical sequence of events is all part of the coverup. They don't want anyone to join up the dots. If this is a shot down/cover up we will probably never know what happened unless someone "in the know" blabs. The majority of pax were Chinese so it's odd their Govt is taking such a back seat.

    But a lot of this is all tied up with the Asian hatred of "Losing Face" so nobody will ask for help and nobody will offer it.
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  9. #204
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    Doesn't Australia and Indonesia kind of lead the search? (Or maybe I am confusing something..)

    Right now I (want to) believe that there was fire in the cockpit, they switched everything off, decided to flight to an airport but in the meantime, they died and that's why they were flying until they had no fuel.

  10. #205
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    I think I heard the report regarding other countries search planes being grounded "due to red tape" ie not being given permission to fly through Malaysian airspace to take off /search, etc



    Malaysia missing plane: China widens ship search
    22 minutes ago


    Krupa Padhy takes a look at some of the theories about what might have happened on board
    China has deployed ships to search new areas for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane, as Thailand said its radars may have tracked the flight shortly after it lost contact.


    China has sent nine ships to waters south-east of the Bay of Bengal and west of Indonesia.


    Teams from 26 countries are trying to find flight MH370, which went missing on 8 March with 239 people on board.


    The entire search area is now roughly the size of Australia.


    Malaysia says the plane, which was flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, was intentionally diverted and could have flown on either a northern or southern arc from its last known position in the Malacca Straits.


    Investigators are looking into the possibility that the aircraft's crew - or other individuals on the plane - were involved in its disappearance.




    The Chinese vessels set off from Singapore early on Wednesday, to search an area of around 300,000 sq km (116,000 sq miles), state-run Xinhua news agency reported.


    The ships would focus on waters near Sumatra, away from regions being searched by other countries, it added.


    'Grave fears'


    On Tuesday, China began searching its territory along the northern arc for the aircraft, following a request from the Malaysian authorities.


    However, Foreign Minister spokesman Hong Lei said on Wednesday that China had not yet found any sign that the plane entered its territory, Reuters reported.


    Australia is leading efforts along the southern arc in the Indian Ocean.


    However, the Australian Maritime Safety Authority (Amsa) said on Wednesday that neither military aircraft deployed on the search, nor merchant ships transiting through the area, had seen anything in connection to the aircraft.




    The BBC's Rupert Wingfield Hayes in Kuala Lumpur says search planes have been grounded because of red tape
    "It is a challenging search operation and Amsa continues to hold grave fears for the passengers and crew on board the missing flight," Amsa said.


    Meanwhile, Thailand's air force said on Tuesday a re-examination of its radar data found what may have been the plane travelling west towards the Malacca Straits at 01:28 Malaysia time, shortly after it lost contact with air traffic controllers.


    This would be consistent with Malaysia's military radar, which spotted the plane over the Malacca Straits - the opposite direction from its planned flight path - early on 8 March.


    Thai air force spokesman Montol Suchookorn said that the plane did not enter Thai air space and he could not confirm whether it was flight MH370.


    Thai radar later spotted the plane heading north and disappearing over the Andaman Sea, AFP reported, citing the spokesman.


    The Thai military had previously said it had not detected any sign of the aircraft.


    Possible protests


    In another development, police in the Maldives are investigating reports that residents saw a "low-flying airplane" above Kuda Huvadhoo island the day the plane vanished, AFP news agency reports.


    Many leads and sightings of possible debris pursued so far have proven not to be linked to the plane.


    The entire search area is now 2.24m square nautical miles (7.68m sq km), Malaysian authorities said.


    Several countries, including Australia, the US, New Zealand, Korea, Japan and the UAE have committed planes and ships to the search and rescue effort.


    Relatives of the 153 Chinese passengers on board the plane have become increasingly frustrated with the lack of information.


    Wen Wancheng, whose 33-year-old son Wen Yongsheng was on the plane, told the BBC: "We think the Malaysian government is not doing enough work.


    "The airline hasn't given us a satisfactory answer and the Malaysian officials are not here with us. If this situation continues, we will consider taking actions such as staging a protest."

    BBC News - Malaysia missing plane: China widens ship search
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  11. #206
    Elite Member arie_skop's Avatar
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    This whole investigation is mess and everyday we are receiving misleading information. Today we find out that Thailand detected the missing plane when it changed directions, but didnt' tell anyone because no one asked. Wth. I feel sorry for the families and friends of the passengers. This is horrible for them.

    Thailand radar may have picked up missing Malaysia jet, but military said nothing - NY Daily News

  12. #207
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    It still disturbs me that a plane would automatically be shot down if it were known to be hijacked. I get because of 911, but what if they just wanted asylum? I guess this is the new world we live in? We always assume the worst forever.

  13. #208
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    According to NBC Austrailia has taken charge on the Indian Ocean search,thank God.
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  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksithbunny View Post
    It still disturbs me that a plane would automatically be shot down if it were known to be hijacked. I get because of 911, but what if they just wanted asylum? I guess this is the new world we live in? We always assume the worst forever.
    I think if someone were hijacking a plane to get asylum, they would probably communicate that fact early on.

  15. #210
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    A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet


    • By Chris Goodfellow
    • 03.18.14


    Image: Pedro Moura Pinheiro/Flickr

    There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN; it’s almost disturbing. I tend to look for a simpler explanation, and I find it with the 13,000-foot runway at Pulau Langkawi.
    We know the story of MH370: A loaded Boeing 777 departs at midnight from Kuala Lampur, headed to Beijing. A hot night. A heavy aircraft. About an hour out, across the gulf toward Vietnam, the plane goes dark, meaning the transponder and secondary radar tracking go off. Two days later we hear reports that Malaysian military radar (which is a primary radar, meaning the plane is tracked by reflection rather than by transponder interrogation response) has tracked the plane on a southwesterly course back across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca.

    The left turn is the key here. Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. They’re always in our head. Always. If something happens, you don’t want to be thinking about what are you going to do–you already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.
    Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
    The loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire.
    When I heard this I immediately brought up Google Earth and searched for airports in proximity to the track toward the southwest.
    For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.
    There are two types of fires. An electrical fire might not be as fast and furious, and there may or may not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility, given the timeline, that there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires, it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes, this happens with underinflated tires. Remember: Heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long-run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. Once going, a tire fire would produce horrific, incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks, but this is a no-no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter, but this will last only a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one in my flight bag, and I still carry one in my briefcase when I fly.)
    What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that route–looking elsewhere is pointless.

    Ongoing speculation of a hijacking and/or murder-suicide and that there was a flight engineer on board does not sway me in favor of foul play until I am presented with evidence of foul play.
    We know there was a last voice transmission that, from a pilot’s point of view, was entirely normal. “Good night” is customary on a hand-off to a new air traffic control. The “good night” also strongly indicates to me that all was OK on the flight deck. Remember, there are many ways a pilot can communicate distress. A hijack code or even transponder code off by one digit would alert ATC that something was wrong. Every good pilot knows keying an SOS over the mike always is an option. Even three short clicks would raise an alert. So I conclude that at the point of voice transmission all was perceived as well on the flight deck by the pilots.
    But things could have been in the process of going wrong, unknown to the pilots.
    Evidently the ACARS went inoperative some time before. Disabling the ACARS is not easy, as pointed out. This leads me to believe more in an electrical problem or an electrical fire than a manual shutdown. I suggest the pilots probably were not aware ACARS was not transmitting.
    As for the reports of altitude fluctuations, given that this was not transponder-generated data but primary radar at maybe 200 miles, the azimuth readings can be affected by a lot of atmospherics and I would not have high confidence in this being totally reliable. But let’s accept for a minute that the pilot may have ascended to 45,000 feet in a last-ditch effort to quell a fire by seeking the lowest level of oxygen. That is an acceptable scenario. At 45,000 feet, it would be tough to keep this aircraft stable, as the flight envelope is very narrow and loss of control in a stall is entirely possible. The aircraft is at the top of its operational ceiling. The reported rapid rates of descent could have been generated by a stall, followed by a recovery at 25,000 feet. The pilot may even have been diving to extinguish flames.
    But going to 45,000 feet in a hijack scenario doesn’t make any good sense to me.
    Regarding the additional flying time: On departing Kuala Lampur, Flight 370 would have had fuel for Beijing and an alternate destination, probably Shanghai, plus 45 minutes–say, 8 hours. Maybe more. He burned 20-25 percent in the first hour with takeoff and the climb to cruise. So when the turn was made toward Langkawi, he would have had six hours or more hours worth of fuel. This correlates nicely with the Inmarsat data pings being received until fuel exhaustion.
    Fire in an aircraft demands one thing: Get the machine on the ground as soon as possible.
    The now known continued flight until time to fuel exhaustion only confirms to me that the crew was incapacitated and the flight continued on deep into the south Indian ocean.
    There is no point speculating further until more evidence surfaces, but in the meantime it serves no purpose to malign pilots who well may have been in a struggle to save this aircraft from a fire or other serious mechanical issue. Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a hero struggling with an impossible situation trying to get that plane to Langkawi. There is no doubt in my mind. That’s the reason for the turn and direct route. A hijacking would not have made that deliberate left turn with a direct heading for Langkawi. It probably would have weaved around a bit until the hijackers decided where they were taking it.
    Surprisingly, none of the reporters, officials, or other pilots interviewed have looked at this from the pilot’s viewpoint: If something went wrong, where would he go? Thanks to Google Earth I spotted Langkawi in about 30 seconds, zoomed in and saw how long the runway was and I just instinctively knew this pilot knew this airport. He had probably flown there many times.
    Fire in an aircraft demands one thing: Get the machine on the ground as soon as possible. There are two well-remembered experiences in my memory. The AirCanada DC9 which landed, I believe, in Columbus, Ohio in the 1980s. That pilot delayed descent and bypassed several airports. He didn’t instinctively know the closest airports. He got it on the ground eventually, but lost 30-odd souls. The 1998 crash of Swissair DC-10 off Nova Scotia was another example of heroic pilots. They were 15 minutes out of Halifax but the fire overcame them and they had to ditch in the ocean. They simply ran out of time. That fire incidentally started when the aircraft was about an hour out of Kennedy. Guess what? The transponders and communications were shut off as they pulled the busses.
    Get on Google Earth and type in Pulau Langkawi and then look at it in relation to the radar track heading. Two plus two equals four. For me, that is the simple explanation why it turned and headed in that direction. Smart pilot. He just didn’t have the time.
    Chris Goodfellow has 20 years experience as a Canadian Class-1 instrumented-rated pilot for multi-engine planes. His theory on what happened to MH370 first appeared on Google+. We’ve copyedited it with his permission.
    1CORRECTION 9:40 a.m. Eastern 03/18/14: An editing error introduced a typo in Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah’s name.

    A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet | Autopia | Wired.com
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