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Thread: Hospital: Egyptian woman gives birth to septuplets

  1. #16
    Elite Member Rica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark View Post
    Sorry, viewing women as needing to be "taken care of" sounds pretty sexist to me. I don't think anyone should be put on a fake pedestal by virtue of their birth. And that's not the same as respect/equality.
    But what I mean by what i said is that women are very highly valued and respected. To an Egyptian male, if they cannot financially support their wife then they feel like a failure.
    However much you like to believe the world is the same everywhere, different cultures have different views. This one is not the worst/ most negative view towards women in the world.

  2. #17
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rica View Post
    But what I mean by what i said is that women are very highly valued and respected. To an Egyptian male, if they cannot financially support their wife then they feel like a failure.
    However much you like to believe the world is the same everywhere, different cultures have different views. This one is not the worst/ most negative view towards women in the world.
    I'm under no illusions as to how women are viewed throughout the world. But just because they're not beating or setting women on fire for leaving the house uncovered or being in the company of unrelated males doesn't mean women are valued and respected. What you describe may be a damn sight better than wearing a burka and never learning to read, but it's pretty much the same thing as how one would view a child, not a grown adult capable of financially supporting herself, given the right environment where she'd get an equal shot.

    It's not the worst, but certainly not the best. And when it comes down to it, still very old-world. I wonder how they feel about their women who do not fit the mold of ones who need to be (or are happy to revel in being) taken care of and financially supported by a man who would feel like a "failure" if he could not come through for her....y'know, the ones who like to do stuff like: Have a career that comes first, not have children, go carousing with the girls and pick up hot guys to take home and fuck....the kind stuff that's par for the course for guys (especially young ones sowing the wild oats). Basically, the kind of woman who would not "need" a man.
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  3. #18
    Elite Member Rica's Avatar
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    I personally do not think there is anything wrong with a woman staying at home while her husband earns the money. I do not think there is anything wrong with a woman being a stay-at-home mother and raising her kids while her husband earns the money. Maybe that's what is wrong with the world, too many people work instead of raising their children.

    Just because you think something different to anthers culture does not make them wrong. As long as men love and respect women, and do not treat them badly, who gives a shit who earns the money??? I'd rather be loved, respected and appreciated then earning money just to prove I can, when my family needs me to stay at home (ie raise children)

  4. #19
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    When did this become about female stay-at-homes raising kids while a man "makes the money" vs not? I thought it was about the dubious "value" certain societies have for other human beings based solely upon an accident of birth (i.e. being born male or female)?

    To tie that in to what was being discussed, I will say that whether to stay at home or not (and which parent should do it) should be a matter of choice and what works for everyone in this day and age, not expectation. And in a free society (and even in a not-so-free one), not everyone fits into this neat little mold.

    For the record, I stayed home with mine when he was little...baby thru pre-preK age. But no matter who has ever worked (or not) in our family at any given time, my husband and I each take care of one another (and our son). I think the fact that I don't "need" a man to take care of me makes/made my husband feel even more special that he was actually able to do this (that I let him) for awhile. It certainly involves a lot of trust to allow another person to 'care for you' in a way that you have been perfectly capable of doing for yourself beforehand. In societies where roles like these are expected, women are pretty much at the mercy of a man who might not be able or willing to do this, or might change his mind about things after the fact.

    I only think something is wrong when it is forced upon people because of some idea that one certain way is what is best for everyone. Societal/cultural pressure that makes men or women feel like failures for not fitting into a particular role is not a good thing, IMO.
    Last edited by MsDark; August 17th, 2008 at 12:07 PM.
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  5. #20
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    She had a fucking litter.
    KILLING ME WON'T BRING BACK YOUR GOD DAMNED HONEY!!!!!!!!!!

    Come on, let's have lots of drinks.

    Fuck you all, I'm going viral.

  6. #21
    Elite Member WhateverLolaWants's Avatar
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    One wonders if she will spout 14 breasts as well.

    Well, it would at least be funny to ME.
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    Do it anyway

  7. #22
    Elite Member katerpillar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark View Post
    I'm under no illusions as to how women are viewed throughout the world. But just because they're not beating or setting women on fire for leaving the house uncovered or being in the company of unrelated males doesn't mean women are valued and respected. What you describe may be a damn sight better than wearing a burka and never learning to read, but it's pretty much the same thing as how one would view a child, not a grown adult capable of financially supporting herself, given the right environment where she'd get an equal shot.

    It's not the worst, but certainly not the best. And when it comes down to it, still very old-world. I wonder how they feel about their women who do not fit the mold of ones who need to be (or are happy to revel in being) taken care of and financially supported by a man who would feel like a "failure" if he could not come through for her....y'know, the ones who like to do stuff like: Have a career that comes first, not have children, go carousing with the girls and pick up hot guys to take home and fuck....the kind stuff that's par for the course for guys (especially young ones sowing the wild oats). Basically, the kind of woman who would not "need" a man.
    Keep in mind that this article is about the wife of a farm worker who earns a whole $4 a day. I doubt their daughters are going to be oppressively forced out of high-flying professional careers to live a personally unfulfilling existence as bored bourgeois housewife. Even if they did choose to work, it'd just be some sort of menial job involving back-breaking peasant labor - not so much the brave and glamorous decision to boldly prove they "don't need a man" that we imagine in the West, a society that's worlds apart socially and economically. It's more complicated than just gender politics; divides in opportunity and social class are involved here, too.

  8. #23
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Well, Rome wasn't built in a day either....

    And taking care of oneself without a man to rely on may be exactly something that happens to them anyway, through no brave and glamorous decision of their own.
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  9. #24
    Elite Member katerpillar's Avatar
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    Septuptlet mother says family can't cope alone

    Mon 18 Aug 2008, 16:09 GMT
    By Samer Elatrash

    ALEXANDRIA, Egypt (Reuters) - An Egyptian woman who gave birth to septuplets last week after taking fertility drugs said on Monday her family was too poor to raise the newborns.

    Ghazala Khamis, 27, delivered three girls and four boys at an Alexandria hospital after doctors performed a Caesarean section six weeks before her due date. She has three other daughters, aged between five and 10.

    Khamis remained in hospital on Monday, recovering from a blood transfusion she received during the delivery. A family doctor said she and the newborns were in stable condition.

    Lying on a rusted metal bed and surrounded by family and friends, Khamis said her family lived in a mud house in a village without a hospital in Beheira province.

    "I need someone to help me with housing, and food for the children. We can't cope with this by ourselves," she told Reuters.

    Khamis's husband, Faraj Muhammed Ali, said he is a sharecropper who earns about 15 Egyptian pounds ($3) on the days he finds work.

    "We already have three girls. She wanted a boy. I told her because of our standard of life, three are enough. We were barely coping with three children," he said.

    Septuplet births are extremely rare, but the rise in the use of fertility drugs has increased the chances of multiple births.

    Abdel Rahim Mousa, a doctor who prescribed Khamis fertility drugs two months before she became pregnant, said no one imagined she would give birth to septuplets.

    "We didn't expect it. She took the right dosage. It's true drugs can cause twins, but not this many children,' he said. "She might be able to suckle twins, but not this many."

    Ghazala's sister, Hanan Khamis, said the family had not seen contributions despite the media attention the newborns have received.

    "There were offers from people as far away as Kuwait, and from the Health Ministry, but nothing yet," she said.
    News | Africa - Reuters.com

    Their doctor is a douche.

    I hope it all works out for them, poor things.

  10. #25
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    As I said in my other post, from what my male Egyptian friends have told me, they value their women very highly there. Men are seen as providers - I personally think the only reason why they WOULD want a male is to take care of his sisters until they were married off, which might sound very strange to people who are used to women having equal rights and such.

    Do you see the contradiction there? They value women....they don't expect them to work , which may seem strange to those of us who value equal rights? Yeah, those of us who value equal rights don't feel particularly revered when we are limited in our choices in life while men can do anything they want. Providng for your family is ego, just like knocking up your wife with boys is about ego. They don't want women to work because that means being out of the watchful eye of their men and having economic independence which also happens to limit their freedom. If you ask any radical Muslim who set his daughter on fire in an honor killing he'd swear he reveres women,too, which is why they are supposed to be so flawless and asexual and deserve death if they are not 'pure' enoguh by their standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rica View Post
    I personally do not think there is anything wrong with a woman staying at home while her husband earns the money. I do not think there is anything wrong with a woman being a stay-at-home mother and raising her kids while her husband earns the money. Maybe that's what is wrong with the world, too many people work instead of raising their children.

    Just because you think something different to anthers culture does not make them wrong. As long as men love and respect women, and do not treat them badly, who gives a shit who earns the money??? I'd rather be loved, respected and appreciated then earning money just to prove I can, when my family needs me to stay at home (ie raise children)
    This is possibly one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read on this forum, and I've seen some doozies. No one said it is wrong for a woman to stay home, raise kids, and let her husband earn the paycheck. We are saying it is wrong for a woman to do that because she has to , because she has no other choice. Do you not see the difference in those two things?

    As far as saying it's okay to limit womens' rights as human beings as long as you feed them and don't beat them.....if I didn't know better I couldn't tell if you were talking about a grown woman or a pet hamster. It reminds me of when I was little and an adult tried to argue with me that slavery wasn't that bad because at least they were taken care of. Even the slaves that weren't raped or beaten should have been satisfied with their status just becasue maybe they had it a little better than those who were? I don't think so and I doubt anybody else would agree either.

    And women and girls are often treated the very worst by people who are supposed to love them and care for them the most.
    Last edited by Tati; August 19th, 2008 at 01:08 PM.

  11. #26
    Elite Member katerpillar's Avatar
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    The children's father has high aspirations for his new children.
    "I want them to get education and be successful. I don't want them to be farmers, I want them to be educated and well-off," he said.
    BBC NEWS | Middle East | Septuplet couple 'need support'

    I don't think this dude and his wife are actually the sexist, oppressive Middle Eastern peasants people are tending to assume. They seem to mean well... I really hope they get the support they need.

  12. #27
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    ^^^^Maybe they aren't, but we were speaking on the topic of womens' limited rights in other cultures in general, not just these two parents in particular.

    Wasn't there some survey recently where Egyptian women said they experiences a lot of sexual harrassment every day and that many of the men surveyed said they felt entitled to do so if the women wasn't being 'appropriate' enough by their standards?

    I wanted to edit this to add:
    I want Rica to know that I am not in any way saying she is an ignorant person and am not trying to insult her in general. My displeasure is strictly with her post and how it was written and how it came across to me. I respect her right to have her own views on things, as I do everone else on the board. It was just my opinion that the post entertained some very draconian beliefs that actually cause a lot of suffering for women in many ways other than being beaten.
    Last edited by crumpet; August 19th, 2008 at 12:38 PM.

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