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Thread: Fox News host Megyn Kelly tells kids: Jesus and Santa are both white guys

  1. #16
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    there are no contemporaneous sources outside of the early christian community for jesus' existence.


    it's likely there was a guy named yeshua, hanging around in palestine with some followers about that time, but no solid evidence.

    there's a brief mention by josepehus, but most scholars think it was tampered with by christians a few centuries later.
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  2. #17
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob View Post
    How many of them were alive when he was around? And how many of them met him?
    Well, as an example, you have known contemporaries of Jesus like Peter the Apostle, the first Bishop of Antioch from 37 to 57 AD. He would have definitely testified to the existence of Jesus and probably related his sayings and beliefs to Evodius who immediately succeeded him as Bishop of Antioch from 53 to 69 AD. And Evodius, would have, in turn, testified to the existence of Jesus to Ignatius of Antioch, who was bishop there from 70 to 107. Because Ignatius was also a student of John the Apostle, you have kind of a triangulation of substantiation of the proof of Jesus. There are numerous theological letters from Ignatius that testify to his existence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Well, as an example, you have known contemporaries of Jesus like Peter the Apostle, the first Bishop of Antioch from 37 to 57 AD. He would have definitely testified to the existence of Jesus and probably related his sayings and beliefs to Evodius who immediately succeeded him as Bishop of Antioch from 53 to 69 AD. And Evodius, would have, in turn, testified to the existence of Jesus to Ignatius of Antioch, who was bishop there from 70 to 107. Because Ignatius was also a student of John the Apostle, you have kind of a triangulation of substantiation of the proof of Jesus. There are numerous theological letters from Ignatius that testify to his existence.
    Actually, that is still not proof that he existed. I dunno about Paul either.

    What you need is people that were alive, that were also not a part of his inner circle to say they knew he existed. But that has never happened.

  4. #19
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob View Post
    Actually, that is still not proof that he existed. I dunno about Paul either.
    So, John the Apostle, and Evodius of Antioch were playing a practical joke on Ignatius, basically?
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    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    there are no contemporaneous sources outside of the early christian community for jesus' existence.


    it's likely there was a guy named yeshua, hanging around in palestine with some followers about that time, but no solid evidence.

    there's a brief mention by josepehus, but most scholars think it was tampered with by christians a few centuries later.
    No hold it just a cotton picking moment, I thought the dinosaurs sent a message to Sarah Palin, verified by Fox News. This is wrong?
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    Cause you gotta have Faith uh Faith uh Faith.
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  7. #22
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMama View Post
    No hold it just a cotton picking moment, I thought the dinosaurs sent a message to Sarah Palin, verified by Fox News. This is wrong?
    The dinosaurs couldn't talk about Jesus because they died before he was born. What they actually had told Sarah Palin was "Just drill baby." And if that is good enough for the triceratops and the diplodocus, it's good enough for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    So, John the Apostle, and Evodius of Antioch were playing a practical joke on Ignatius, basically?
    Did jonah really spend 3 days inside a wale, or was he just really high on LSD?

    Basically saying someone said something about someone doesn't make what was originally said true.

  9. #24
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob View Post
    Did jonah really spend 3 days inside a wale, or was he just really high on LSD?

    Basically saying someone said something about someone doesn't make what was originally said true.
    Well, you are correct, by what I presented, it could be an inner circle cabal that invented the story of Jesus as a way of remunerating themselves for really light physical work.

    But you also have the writings of Tacitus, who was a Roman historian and senator. In his work, Annals (written 116 AD), he says that Nero blamed the Great fire of 64 AD on Christians and then references Jesus' execution by Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius (42 BC - 37 AD):
    "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in JudŠa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind".

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    And none of that happened while he was alive. Again, someone talking about him him in past tense is no proof. Someone who actually knew him or saw him that wasn't a follower would be alot closer to rea;t proof. And that sure isn't.

    That and Nero was batshit crazy. Everyone knows he blamed the fires on Christians, but that doesn't mean that he felt Jesus was directly involved.

  11. #26
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob View Post
    And none of that happened while he was alive. Again, someone talking about him him in past tense is no proof. Someone who actually knew him or saw him that wasn't a follower would be alot closer to rea;t proof. And that sure isn't.

    That and Nero was batshit crazy. Everyone knows he blamed the fires on Christians, but that doesn't mean that he felt Jesus was directly involved.
    The passage substantiates that as late as 117 AD, and obviously earlier (since Tacitus was 7 years old in 64 AD when Rome burned under Nero), that a guy named Jesus was not only being referred to, but also being referred to as executed during the reign of Tiberius.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    The passage substantiates that as late as 117 AD, and obviously earlier (since Tacitus was 7 years old in 64 AD when Rome burned under Nero), that a guy named Jesus was not only being referred to, but also being referred to as executed during the reign of Tiberius.
    And your point is? He didn't have a super uncommon name for that time period. Many others had it. So if there was a Jesus executed, there is a possiblity that it could have been a number of people. You do know people have claimed to have found the grave of him to right? Does that mean if was of the one of Jesus? Uhhhh...No. That and none of that stuff took place during his time. It was of course told many years afterwards. Like all the other non-biblical accounts have been.

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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob View Post
    And your point is? He didn't have a super uncommon name for that time period. Many others had it. So if there was a Jesus executed, there is a possiblity that it could have been a number of people. You do know people have claimed to have found the grave of him to right? Does that mean if was of the one of Jesus? Uhhhh...No. That and none of that stuff took place during his time. It was of course told many years afterwards. Like all the other non-biblical accounts have been.
    I think the point of the discussion was whether there was a "historical Jesus" or not. At a minimum, we have an unbroken chain of religious leaders in Antioch, starting with Peter the Apostle, and then continuing on, without interruption through Ignatius (and beyond). These guys all testifying to the fact of a historical Jesus.

    Then, we have the Roman historian Tacitus who specifically mentions a Christus (Jesus) who was executed under Pontius Pilate (referenced in the Bible) during the reign of Tiberius.

    The combined two elements substantiate the existence, separately, of a historical Jesus who functioned as some kind of religious leader in that area.

    These are not the only two indicators of a historical Jesus.

  14. #29
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    Less religious scholarship and more Oded Fehr please!

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

    -- Stephen Hawking

  15. #30
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Less religious scholarship and more Oded Fehr please!

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