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Thread: Family of brain dead California girl battles hospital to keep machines on

  1. #16
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    IMO, if this family insists on keeping this brain-dead, not coming back to life child on a ventilator, it's going to cost them their life savings plus. It's over, folks. Yes, it's emotional. Yes, it's sentimental. Yes, you are sad. That isn't going to bring her back. Figure out what your best course of action should be and take it. Have this be ABOUT the child, not about your inability to let go.
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  2. #17
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    The alternative is goulish. Look at Terri Shaivo. Her husband wanted to shut the machines off. Her family fought it and won. 15 years of care on a dead woman. At autopsy her brain was half sized.
    If they had agreed with her husband some organs might have been used to save other people. Some good could have come from a stark tragedy. Nothing good was accomplished there and it won't be here.
    Last edited by McJag; January 4th, 2014 at 11:57 AM.
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    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    I feel so bad for these parents. I can't even imagine and I don't want to. i can't judge them for wanting to think there is hope, especially considering they have been able to find a few doctors at different facilities that are willing to say there may be some hope.

    I hope they find peace and are able to let her go.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MmeVertigina View Post

    I think this must qualify as a brain-deadifesto or something. I found this commentary and I agree with it. I don't want to keep coming back to this thread because it is so upsetting to me, but I wanted to make sure what I was thinking was coming across correctly. Opinion: Let parents decide if teen is dead - CNN.com
    I disagree with letting parents decide if their child is dead. There are established protocols for this, and the average person isn't emotionally or medically in a position to do so. It sets a dangerous precedent, as so many people don't want to let go. Letting distraught family members make those decisions is an enormous mistake.

    This is horrifying for the family, as is the loss of any child, but this poor girl is dead, and that's why no facuility has been willing to take her, except the quack one in NY that doesn't even have an inpatient ward or licensed medical staff. It's time to let this child go and rest in peace.
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  5. #20
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I disagree with letting parents decide if their child is dead. There are established protocols for this, and the average person isn't emotionally or medically in a position to do so. It sets a dangerous precedent, as so many people don't want to let go. Letting distraught family members make those decisions is an enormous mistake.

    This is horrifying for the family, as is the loss of any child, but this poor girl is dead, and that's why no facuility has been willing to take her, except the quack one in NY that doesn't even have an inpatient ward or licensed medical staff. It's time to let this child go and rest in peace.
    I can understand your point. I still agree with what was said in that commentary.

  6. #21
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^^And that's exactly why I believe in living wills. Because people's opinions do differ on this topic.

    I was reading up a bit on what happens to bodies in this condition. Its a medical horror show.

    Its awful to say, but these people are going to wish they had let her go on Dec 12 once this process starts. My god, you wouldn't allow it to happen to a dog.

    And there is still no p!ace willing to take her.
    Last edited by twitchy2.0; January 8th, 2014 at 11:12 AM.
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  7. #22
    Elite Member Laurent's Avatar
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    ^ I'm guessing that means her body will start to decompose with all the odors that come with it? That's what I've been thinking might be around the corner. Even with machines keeping her breathing and her heart beating, she can't be getting good tissue perfusion.
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    Elite Member badgers!'s Avatar
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    I read that the hospital was pressuring them to pull the plug right away so they could harvest her organs. I wonder if by making the family uncomfortable and pushing them caused them to dig in their heels and fight rather than let her go? Maybe once her body is moved somewhere else the family can finally let go.

  9. #24
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    Modern medicine can indeed perform "miracles" and Dr House always fixes his patients, right? Whether an obese patient should have had this surgery is a different debate and while I totally understand the family's trauma it's time to say goodbye and let her go in peace and with a shred of dignity. Saying she is still "alive" because her heart is beating and she's producing urine thanks to the ventilator shows their level of denial and/or ignorance.

    These cases throw up a huge amount of moral, ethical, practical, emotional conflict and the law hasn't kept up with it. Getting lawyers involved in any medical dilemma always makes things x100 worse too. There's an old doctors' saying "there's things that could be done, and things that should be done, and a good doctor knows the difference".
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  10. #25
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    Default Jahi McMath released from hospital to mother

    OAKLAND, Calif. —
    Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old brain dead girl who has been the center of a dispute between her family and Children's Hospital Oakland, was released from the hospital Sunday night to her mother, according to hospital officials.


    McMath left the hospital in a private ambulance shortly before 8 p.m. Sunday, Christopher Dolan told The Associated Press.


    She was taken by a critical care team while attached to a ventilator but without a feeding tube, Dolan said. Her destination was not immediately disclosed.


    "It was a very tense situation," said Dolan. "Everybody played by the rules."


    David Durand, the hospital's Chief of Pediatrics, said the girl was released to the coroner. The coroner then released her into the custody of her mother, Nailah Winkfield, as per court order, Durand said in an email.


    "Our hearts go out to the family as they grieve for this sad situation and we wish them closure and peace," wrote Durand in a statement to media Sunday evening.


    On Friday Alameda County Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo said Jahi could be transferred under an agreement with Children's Hospital and the girl's mother will be held accountable for developments that could include Jahi going into cardiac arrest.


    The Alameda County coroner's office issued a death certificate for the girl Friday but said the document is incomplete because no cause of death has been determined pending an autopsy.


    "They may have issued one but we don't have it. We don't think she's dead," Dolan said. "We got all the necessary legal paperwork in order to get Jahi out of there."


    A court injunction prohibiting Children's Hospital from removing the ventilator that has kept Jahi's heart pumping since her Dec. 9 surgery expires at 5 p.m. Tuesday.


    Dolan wouldn't specify where the girl was taken but he said "they are going to care for her, respect her and love her. And they're going to call her Jahi, not 'the body.'"


    After spending weeks in a very public and tense fight with the hospital, Jahi's family does not plan to disclose any more about their plans for her continued care until she is resettled, her uncle, Omari Sealey, told reporters on Friday.


    The hospital has argued since before Christmas that Jahi's brain death means she is legally dead and she should be disconnected from the ventilator. It also has refused to fit her with a feeding tube or a breathing tube that would help stabilize her during a move, saying it was unethical to perform medical procedures on a dead person.


    Winkfield, refusing to believe her daughter is dead as long as her heart is beating, has gone to court to stop the machine from being disconnected. She has wanted to transfer Jahi to another facility and hoped to force Children's Hospital either to insert the tubes or to allow an outside doctor to do the procedures.


    Grillo on Friday rejected the family's move to have the hospital insert the tubes, noting the girl could be moved with the ventilator and intravenous fluid lines she has now. He also refused to compel the hospital to permit an outside doctor perform the procedures on its premises.


    Dolan said Friday the family has located an unaffiliated physician to put in the tubes and that an outpatient clinic in New York that treats people with traumatic brain injures has expressed willingness to care for Jahi.


    Jahi went into cardiac arrest while recovering from surgery to remove her tonsils, adenoids and uvula along with bony structures from her nose and throat and palate tissue. Three doctors have declared the girl brain dead based on exams and tests showing no blood flow or electrical activity in either her cerebrum or the brain stem that controls breathing.


    Multiple outside doctors and bioethicists observing the case have confirmed that a patient in that condition meets the legal criteria for death and has no chance of recovering.


    The judge earlier this week ordered Children's Hospital to keep Jahi on the ventilator until Jan. 7 at 5 p.m. He said Friday that he would dissolve the injunction as soon as Winkfield assumes custody of her daughter's body.


    Hospital spokesman Sam Singer said that if the girl is not transferred by the deadline, her family would have to seek an extension or the ventilator would be removed.
    Jahi McMath released from hospital to mother | www.ktvu.com

  11. #26
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    "They may have issued one but we don't have it. We don't think she's dead," Dolan said. "We got all the necessary legal paperwork in order to get Jahi out of there."
    This is it in the proverbial nutshell. They're going to take her somewhere where she's not considered "dead", even though they were unable to get her released without a death certificate. How heartbreaking for this family. They are likely going to spend thousands of dollars to figure out there's nothing more that can be done.
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  12. #27
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    I remember my Mother saying there were worse things than death. Like this poor child.
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  13. #28
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    ^^^ or like being Kim Jong Un's uncle....

  14. #29
    Elite Member Kathie_Moffett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I was reading up a bit on what happens to bodies in this condition. Its a medical horror show.

    Its awful to say, but these people are going to wish they had let her go on Dec 12 once this process starts. My god, you wouldn't allow it to happen to a dog.

    And there is still no p!ace willing to take her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurent View Post
    ^ I'm guessing that means her body will start to decompose with all the odors that come with it? That's what I've been thinking might be around the corner. Even with machines keeping her breathing and her heart beating, she can't be getting good tissue perfusion.
    Yep. That is what is happening. She is a decomposing corpse and this won't, can't go on for much longer.

    Report/deposition by a physician who examined her multiple times, Dr. Heidi Flori. Warning: it's pretty gross. http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/HeidiFlori.pdf

    There's a lot of under-the-radar information floating around the Bay Area, and most people seem to have lost all sympathy for her family and suspect nothing more than a big money grab by the family, including a possible lawsuit. Word is that the child's body is most likely at a local family home, and that the family's claiming that they are trying to have a feeding tube inserted but that Jahi's throat was so damaged (allegedly by the hospital) that it can't be done.

    There's talk that they KNOW the body is decomposing and they are putting on this whole charade precisely because they wish to obscure evidence of how their own behavior helped kill the child. Apparently, several different people (including family members) have mentioned the grandmother suctioning Jahi's mouth post-op so that she could eat.

    This whole story makes me feel nauseated. In fact...I can't read any more about it as of now. Putting it on ignore.

    Rest in peace, Jahi.
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  15. #30
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    I gotta tell you if it were my kid, this statement released by the hospital would have me insane: "We have done everything to assist the family of Jahi McMath in their quest to take the deceased body of their daughter to another medical facility," hospital spokesman Sam Singer said.

    "To date, they have been unwilling or unable to provide a physician to perform the procedures necessary, transportation, or a facility that would accept a dead person on a ventilator. Our hearts and thoughts go out to them in this tragic situation, but the statements being made by their attorney and some family members are misleading and untrue."

    And I don't give a flying FUCK what science says. My child would NOT have been left to rot in THAT fucking place. We kind of had a different kind of experience with what hospitals are willing to do with your family. Shed and I had an uncle who was swimming at Kisatchie Falls and dove, hit a rock with his head and when he'd made it to the hospital, was placed on machines to keep him living. For MONTHS. As he deteriorated and it became obvious to the family that he would never recover, he would never even really live - the HOSPITAL refused to unplug him. Not because they gave a fuck about him but because they had never seen anyone "live" through a brain injury such as he had. Now, mind you, his brain was literally turning to mush where dirty water and such had got in there and they were (supposedly) having to go in and scoop out parts of his brain until there wasn't a whole lot of anything left... BUT, those doctors and that hospital kept him alive as long as they could... the family was begging them to let him go but instead, you get to sit there and watch him deteriorate until there is NOTHING left of him... you have no fucking rights when you get down to this kind of thing with hospitals.
    Kill him.
    Kill her.
    Kill It.
    Kill everything... that IS the solution!
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