Expanded coverage for obesity - Page 2

Sojiita · November 26th, 2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disruptivehair

And here in the UK, an NHS trust is banning hip and knee replacements for patients with a BMI over 30. Assholes.

You could have some totally irresponsible person who is "normal" weight according to the BMI and would qualify, but would not follow the rehab regimen or total Hip Replacement precautions and they would still qualify..but someone whit a BMI a of 31 or 32 would be denied, even if they were responsible in following up with the rehab and precautions needed. I have worked with THR patients and the most important thing is that they get up, get moving and follow the precautions! Unmotivated people come in all shapes and sizes(and ages). Shit when I worked in rehab as long as the insurance covered it they would give total hip replacements to people with severe Alzheimer's induced dementia..as if they could possibly cooperate in rehab and follow the precautions. As usual it is all about the fucking money!!!

Lobelia · November 27th, 2005, 01:52 AM

Seems to me that a liver transplant is pretty different, since you need a donor. A hip or knee replacement is just like a car part.

There are a multitude of reasons why a person might have a BMI over the given number. It seems rather punitive to deny the surgery, but I admit that I didn't take the time to read the article that DH linked to.

buttmunch · November 27th, 2005, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Actually, I don't mind if people who have wrecked their livers through drink are given a second chance with a new liver. Alcohol is an addiction. I get it. However, George Best started drinking almost immediately after receiving his new liver. This indicates to me that he lied to doctors to get his new liver, which is inexcusable...or that doctors gave him a new liver despite the fact that his addictive behavior indicated that he was extremely likely to drink again and wreck the new liver, which is equally inexcusable.

But DH, are the obese people going to guarantee that they won't continue to overeat if they get the hip/knee replacement?

DisruptiveHair · November 27th, 2005, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buttmunch

But DH, are the obese people going to guarantee that they won't continue to overeat if they get the hip/knee replacement?

You're assuming they overeat. For a liberal, that's a pretty intolerant statement.

buttmunch · November 27th, 2005, 04:17 AM

Most fat people do overeat. There are very few who are overweight because of a medical condition. Knowing this is not a matter of political stance.

DisruptiveHair · November 27th, 2005, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buttmunch

Most fat people do overeat. There are very few who are overweight because of a medical condition. Knowing this is not a matter of political stance.

Prove it, then. If you know the exact causes of obesity, then you know how to prevent and cure it...you'll be a billionaire. Share your wisdom with the rest of the world!

buttmunch · November 27th, 2005, 04:26 AM

Why so hostile? This is a pretty simple discussion and I don't see the need to go on the attack or accept one. If you want the knowledge, Google is your friend. Type obesity + eating habits. You'll be faced with a plethora of information.

DisruptiveHair · November 27th, 2005, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buttmunch

Why so hostile? This is a pretty simple discussion and I don't see the need to go on the attack or accept one. If you want the knowledge, Google is your friend. Type obesity + eating habits. You'll be faced with a plethora of information.

Ah-HA! I've been fobbed off to Google. So...you don't really know what the causes of obesity are, you just know the unverified bullshit you've looked up on the web.

I'm hostile because prejudice against fat people seems to be completely acceptable even amongst self-described liberals, and I think it's disgustingly hypocritical and intolerant. That's my opinion, feel free to disagree...but I don't think it is OK to deny fat people medical care simply because you are of the opinion that they did it to themselves. A lot of people fuck their bodies up...are you going to deny them all?

* Bowel cancer (Did you ever eat spicy food? Did you get enough fiber in your diet? NO? No treatment for you!)
* Diabetes (Did you eat too much sugar? NO TREATMENT FOR YOU!)
* Lung cancer (Did you smoke? FUCK OFF THEN!)
* Breast cancer (Did you smoke? FUCK OFF THEN!)
* Pancreatic cancer (You must have done SOMETHING to cause it. Did you USED to be obese?)

Etc., etc., etc. A lot of medical problems are caused or worsened by the patient's own behavior. Are you in favor of a blanket ban denying treatment for those conditions? If it's OK for fat people, then by applying your logic surely it's OK for everyone else, right?

buttmunch · November 27th, 2005, 05:21 AM

I'm sorry DH but you really are worked up today. Chill out. I sent you to google because I'm too lazy to start posting a bunch of articles on a subject that at the end of the day I don't actually give too much of a shit about. And being insulting and accusatory doesn't inspire me to change that point of view. All it makes me do is avoid any thread you're posting on because I don't feel like being attacked. Chill out, please.

As far as the examples you bring up, yes I would question giving someone a new lung if they continued to smoke. I would absolutely say that someone being treated for diabetes should lay off the sugar. But that would also depend on the type of diabetes they are being treated for. If it is brought on by lifestyle, the best treatment would be a better diet and more excercise. Insulin wouldn't have to come into the picture. Bowel cancer has many causes (see earlier notes on google), as do pancreatic and breast cancer. Obesity has one main cause for the vast majority and that is too much food and not enough exercise. But at the end of the day, I don't actually give a shit enough to carry on this discussion. You've made it into something angry and unpleasant and I'm simply not interested.

DisruptiveHair · November 27th, 2005, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buttmunch

I'm sorry DH but you really are worked up today. Chill out. I sent you to google because I'm too lazy to start posting a bunch of articles on a subject that at the end of the day I don't actually give too much of a shit about. And being insulting and accusatory doesn't inspire me to change that point of view. All it makes me do is avoid any thread you're posting on because I don't feel like being attacked. Chill out, please.

I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your opinion because I don't agree with it. But hey...if you're not interested in possibly having your mind changed, that's groovy with me. Saves me time if you tell me from the outset that you're not interested in anything I have to say.