Dallas police chief: Dozens of tickets issued for not speaking English

[Chimera]

Relax, the second generation of immigrants always speaks the dominant language. However, I find it interesting that so many insist that English is somehow the required language of the US. It isn't yet, altho many are pushing for that. It's nice living in a bilingual country, makes u feel smart and sophisticated. I mean, there are upsides.

[A*O]

I think it's quite common for stroke victims or people with brain injuries to revert back to their first language, even if they haven't spoken it for years.

As an immigrant myself I know I am very lucky that I didn't need to learn a totally new language when I moved from the UK to Australia (although some of the Strine slang took some getting used to!). How people who don't speak any English at all manage to get by day to day without even being able to order a coffee, make a doctor appointment, talk to a teacher or even understand the TV. We have a great public TV channel here called SBS that broadcasts news programs from all over the place - Germany, Japan, Russia, Spain, Indonesia, Poland, Greece, even Malta - which are very popular with migrants who like to know what's happening "back home". It's also a great resource for people learning one of those languages or who want a broader view of world events as they show events and news that would never make the Australian news media. I think it's a great idea BUT it doesn't mean that the immigrants who watch it don't speak English, or at least try to, in their everyday lives.

[Charmed Hour]

Originally Posted by Chimera

Relax, the second generation of immigrants always speaks the dominant language. However, I find it interesting that so many insist that English is somehow the required language of the US. It isn't yet, altho many are pushing for that. It's nice living in a bilingual country, makes u feel smart and sophisticated. I mean, there are upsides.

Second wave might speak it, but many must be taught first. My niece was ESL tested back in pre-school. She lived with her grandmother, who came from Puerto Rico nearly 40 years ago and barely speaks English, and her father, who wholey communicated with his mother in Spanish.

That being said, when my niece started school, her English language skills were far behind other native speaking students. Yes, she spoke English but her Spanish was far superior. She spent the next 2 years playing catch up. She's 11 now and her English still tends to lag in conversations. She sometimes struggles to find an English word but knows what it is in Spanish. Most recent example was the word "hanger", like a clothes hanger.

[McJag]

My husband grew up in south Texas. He is pure Anglo ( guess I should say pure Scots) but did not learn English until he was 6 years old. He speaks both,with no accent at all.

[darksithbunny]

I kinda don't see much wrong with this. Really.

[katerpillar]

Originally Posted by McJag

We are talking about people who have lived her years-like 11,20,etc. I think by 5 years you could learn enough to get by. If I am not mistaken,doesn't Austrailia have such a rule in place? That English is THE language? Doesn't seem rediculous for you all-why different for us?

...No? As A*O mentioned, there are language requirements for citizenship, but you don't get fined if a cop pulls you over and you can't speak English.

Originally Posted by McJag

Broken English is fine,but none after years of living here? Very dangerous. Besides-we have already discussed at length: the cops were in the wrong. Oh! Yes-most tourists have enough sense to show papers indicating they ARE tourists.

I do think it's dangerous, and people should learn at least the basics if they resettle in another country with a different language, but the fine is absurd. As I mentioned, how are you meant to determine whether a person is a tourist or an immigrant and how long they've been here if you can't understand them, and they can't understand you? Via telepathy? It's too difficult to police - and legally define - fairly, even if they wanted to make it law.

[Mel1973]

Originally Posted by AliceInWonderland

um, wtf is wrong with Texas?!


what is this wet-panty fit people get into over language?! don't people realize how fluid it is?! how it's not tied to land?! how even if it was, that land isn't English!

fucking racists

it's not racism, Alice. no driver's license, driving illegally & being unable to speak to the police officer is just dangerous.

Originally Posted by A*O

Sorry but I bet non-English speakers (yeah right) try to pull this shit all the time when they get a ticket and I bet the cops are sick of it. It happens here with Asian and Middle Eastern people, some of them born and bred here who are fluent in English but suddenly "forget" when it suits them. I would too.

Bingo

Originally Posted by msdeb

its America. speak English. Plain and Simple

pretty simple

Originally Posted by kingcap72

I get sick of people refusing to speak English when they come to the U.S. But giving people tickets just because they don't speak English is ridiculous.

that wasn't the only reason for the ticket - but I get what you're saying. Plus, I understand there is now a lawsuit for this.

Originally Posted by McJag

And how do we help? We make it easier for them at every turn. Instructions, automated phone calls-there is no motivation to learn English. They knew we spoke English when they moved here. This should be onsisted upon-if only from a safety standpoint.

Yep, I know two people who immigrated to this country as children and there were no ESL classes so they learned through immersion.

Originally Posted by Kathie_Moffett

EXACTLY. Good grief. I take to languages pretty easily and have total sympathy for those who do not, but let's face it: those people are NOT in the majority. And, even if you are like that, I bet you can memorize a set of useful--possibly even lifesaving--phrases and words.

Thing is, it's not only rude as hell, exploitative, and bratty to go to a foreign country to LIVE, permanently, and expect everyone to bend over backwards to accommodate you. It's also impractical, expensive to your host country, and downright dangerous.

One of my best friends is training to be a 911 dispatcher and I'm urging her to learn Spanish as I think it'd be a huge career/hiring boost. So many operators do not and frankly, lives have been lost due to language barriers. Given the amount of non-English speakers from Mexico and Latin America around here, it's a good idea to know at least Spanish in that line of work. But this is the ONLY situation where I feel it's appropriate to take the initiative language-wise; after all, someone could be genuinely bad at languages, or they could've just gotten here and not had the opportunity to learn yet. They shouldn't be at risk of dying 'cause they can't speak English.

What nobody brings up, though, is the cost of all this. In CA everything has to be printed in Spanish and Spanish has to be integrated into EVERYTHING--nobody thinks of this but it COSTS MONEY. Money that could be so much better used for LOTS of other things. *sigh*

Even as it is, there are tons of free English classes around here--I checked. FREE. At NIGHT, so you don't have to miss work. Geezus. People drive me nuts.

p.s. January, I have a Latino friend who's really funny about this whole subject. He's like, "my parents immigrated legally, they made the effort to learn English, f*ck these lazy (insert colorful Spanish epithet) who won't get off their lazy asses and do the same." I was so startled when he said it that I couldn't stop cracking up.

Yep, the cost is astronomical. Every letter that comes to my house from school is English on one side & Spanish on the other. In addition to that, it has long pissed me off that my English speaking child was denied access to public preschool because I work and he speaks English. People can scream racism all they want, but as far as I can tell, that's a crock of shit.

Originally Posted by MontanaMama

If I understand the article, the entire ticket was dimissed because of this? Despite the fact that she DID commit an unlawful U-turn and she DID drive without a license?

And here's another question along those same lines: If she had no license, did she have insurance while she's out driving like a lunatic? Doubtful.

Originally Posted by caramel

I'm shit.

It is just that English speakers and mostly americans think they are the center of the world and everyone else should learn their language and then to them to learn something is so damn hard. But then again the education in US is shit so I understand a little. It is not like in Europe when you usually have to have awarness of other cultures.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this point. America caters to everyone and their brothers. In Houston, we've had to have signs put up in Vietnamese in some areas. To me, that's nuts.

Originally Posted by lalala

In most cases if they require bilingual workers it's not so much because immigrants don't speak english but on the contrary because there is an available bilingual workforce

Yes, and that workforce many times consist of people here illegally.

Originally Posted by kingcap72

You've just completely twisted what was going on in this thread. No one was saying that people should learn English because the U.S. is the center of the world. People were saying that if you move to America you should learn to speak the language. And the same would be true if an American moved to a non-English speaking country. The people in that country would expect the American to learn their language.

And your attempt to make Europe into some great cultural center of diversity in comparison to America is funny, considering that both countries have issues with racism and immigrants.

I agree with you on this. I think that safety and being able to blend in with people here and being able to ask for help when you need it is key.

Originally Posted by Novice

But a no u turn sign is a picture... As are the majority of road signs - so that anyone cab understand them....

clearly not everyone can.

Originally Posted by katerpillar

...No? As A*O mentioned, there are language requirements for citizenship, but you don't get fined if a cop pulls you over and you can't speak English.



I do think it's dangerous, and people should learn at least the basics if they resettle in another country with a different language, but the fine is absurd. As I mentioned, how are you meant to determine whether a person is a tourist or an immigrant and how long they've been here if you can't understand them, and they can't understand you? Via telepathy? It's too difficult to police - and legally define - fairly, even if they wanted to make it law.

Agree - it is very dangerous. As for the fine, there is some law that pertains to certain industries (perhaps a CDL license or something requires English) but not to everyday "citizens".

[tictac]

And here's another question along those same lines: If she had no license, did she have insurance while she's out driving like a lunatic? Doubtful.

Oh, HELL NO she didn't have insurance. Neither did the asshole who wrecked my car a couple years ago. Why don't they have it? Because they don't have to. They can walk around with no legal ID, no tax ID or social security number, no insurance, registration, inspection, or any of the other things us law abiding citizens are required to have. All they have to do is spout off some random name and fake address to the cop and it's up to the victim to try and track them down, which is impossible. So they get written a ticket. Big fucking deal. Good luck getting them to pay it or pay any consequences whatsoever. They essentially walk off scott free. It's we who follow all the rules that have to pay. If that makes me a racist, then so be it. I can live with that title. I'm so sick of these motherfuckers taking advantage.

[McJag]

Originally Posted by katerpillar

...No? As A*O mentioned, there are language requirements for citizenship, but you don't get fined if a cop pulls you over and you can't speak English.



I do think it's dangerous, and people should learn at least the basics if they resettle in another country with a different language, but the fine is absurd. As I mentioned, how are you meant to determine whether a person is a tourist or an immigrant and how long they've been here if you can't understand them, and they can't understand you? Via telepathy? It's too difficult to police - and legally define - fairly, even if they wanted to make it law.

Katerpillar: one more time. There IS no such fine that is legal here for ordinary citizens. NONE. There IS ,according to the news stations, a law that people driving hazardous cargo,chemicals,etc speak English. These were rookie cops that did it wrong. No one is saying that was fair,certainly not me. Again: you do not get fined here for not speaking English if you are pulled over by a cop.

[bellini]

Originally Posted by tictac

Oh, HELL NO she didn't have insurance. Neither did the asshole who wrecked my car a couple years ago. Why don't they have it? Because they don't have to. They can walk around with no legal ID, no tax ID or social security number, no insurance, registration, inspection, or any of the other things us law abiding citizens are required to have. All they have to do is spout off some random name and fake address to the cop and it's up to the victim to try and track them down, which is impossible. So they get written a ticket. Big fucking deal. Good luck getting them to pay it or pay any consequences whatsoever. They essentially walk off scott free. It's we who follow all the rules that have to pay. If that makes me a racist, then so be it. I can live with that title. I'm so sick of these motherfuckers taking advantage.

I so agree with you! I had a guy run the stop sign and ram into my car. I called the cops. Luckily the guy's car wasn't drivable so he had to stay put. Of course he had no insurance, didn't even have a driver's license. Stupidly he told the cop the name of the guy he worked for. Some man with a big estate who employed a few illegals. I called him and got him to pay for my car.

[Mel1973]

Originally Posted by tictac

Oh, HELL NO she didn't have insurance. Neither did the asshole who wrecked my car a couple years ago. Why don't they have it? Because they don't have to. They can walk around with no legal ID, no tax ID or social security number, no insurance, registration, inspection, or any of the other things us law abiding citizens are required to have. All they have to do is spout off some random name and fake address to the cop and it's up to the victim to try and track them down, which is impossible. So they get written a ticket. Big fucking deal. Good luck getting them to pay it or pay any consequences whatsoever. They essentially walk off scott free. It's we who follow all the rules that have to pay. If that makes me a racist, then so be it. I can live with that title. I'm so sick of these motherfuckers taking advantage.

Originally Posted by bellini

I so agree with you! I had a guy run the stop sign and ram into my car. I called the cops. Luckily the guy's car wasn't drivable so he had to stay put. Of course he had no insurance, didn't even have a driver's license. Stupidly he told the cop the name of the guy he worked for. Some man with a big estate who employed a few illegals. I called him and got him to pay for my car.

I think we've all had a similar experience. I mean, how much do we all get to pay for "under insured or uninsured motorists" on our monthly insurance bills?

[january]

Originally Posted by Mel1973

I think we've all had a similar experience. I mean, how much do we all get to pay for "under insured or uninsured motorists" on our monthly insurance bills?

Thats why my insurance is so fucking high! Lets hear those apologists explain that one. I have a perfect driving record at the moment but I pay absurd amounts for insurance to protect myself from people without insurance - its high in California and I was told straight up by my agent that its because of the high amounts of illegal immigrants that are in CA, that its OUR responsibility to make sure we protect ourselves from getting hit by them. What the fuck kind of backwards logic is that?

[kingcap72]

Originally Posted by A*O

I am still certain that a lot of people "forget" how to speak English when it suits them, ie, when a cop wants to give them a ticket.

That does happen. Years ago when I was at the doctor's office with my mother and there were two women sitting next to us having a conversation in English. When they went to the reception desk and were told there was a problem with their insurance they pretended that they couldn't speak English. My mother ran up to the desk and told the nurse don't fall for that 'no habla English' shit because they were just speaking perfect English a few minutes ago.

[visitor42]

There are many people who were born in the US, whose parents were born in the US, who don't speak English fluently. That was even more true 50 and 100 years ago.

The person in charge of this policy should be fired.

[RevellingInSane]

I'm wondering how many of them conveniently acquired language amnesia when pulled over. Pretend you don't know the language so you have no idea what is going. While this policy is illegal, I can see it stemming from some becoming fed up with the current issues involving the high latin immigration rates, and directly, the number of people who truly have no grasp of English.

It's annoying to walk into a business in America and the workers there ask me if I can speak Spanish because it is easier for them. Sure I can, buddy, but unless the border just moved North and I didn't get the memo, you will speak English in an American company to an American patron.

The burgeoning illegal population here has been a subject of discussion in the news because of the increasing auto accidents involving illegals with no insurance, no license, and, of course, no way to pay. Insurance rates jumped this year for this area. The jails are also in distress because of the rapidly increasing number of illegals who are being arrested and are in red tape limbo. Some jails in this area have had to shell out money to instruct current workers in Spanish or seek Spanish speakers to work within the system.

Sadly, it is the immigrants who behave poorly who get the attention, while those like my former neighbor who worked hard and spent hours conversing with the neighbors and her children's and grandchildren's friends to learn English. She taught us about her culture, just as the neighborhood embraced her and her willingness to learn and returned the favor.

Giving tickets for not speaking English is wrong, but I can understand the frustration which may fuel such acts, although I don't condone those acts.