Dallas police chief: Dozens of tickets issued for not speaking English

[A*O]

Thing is, a lot of these people CAN speak English. They just choose not to when it suits them. I bet if a cop said "Please give me your name and address so I can give you a winning Lotto ticket for a million dollars" instead of a speeding/parking violation they'd totally understand.

[january]

Originally Posted by kingcap72

In the past, I've tried to learn Spanish and it was rough, so I sympathize with people who have a tough time learning a new language. But I don't sympathize with people who move to another country and still won't learn the language.

The person doesn't have to speak the language fluently, but they should still have a working knowledge of it so that they can communicate with people.

Exactly. When I moved overseas I learned the language within a span of two years...even though it was tough, I quickly grasped at least the basics so I could get around, get groceries, ask for help, etc. Nobody expects you to learn how to speak quantum physics and religious doctrine - but at least learn the basics, instead of having the expectation that everyone else will learn YOUR language so you don't have to be inconvenienced. I would never dream of not learning and hoping that other people would just bend over backwards to accommodate me - its so fucking rude and lazy. I have a Mexican friend who admits the same - she gets pissed when her mother, who has lived here for forty years, doesn't understand what is going on in a basic English conversation. She told me, "plain and simple, my mom is lazy and expects other people to do her shit for her, she never even tried." Tourists are totally and completely different. But when you live here, speak English. There is no excuse. I learned a language I had NEVER been exposed to prior to living there. You can learn a language that is very, very prevalent like English. It bugs the shit out of me, sorry - this is my pet peeve. And where I live there is a huge influx of Asians, and they ALL have managed to learn English while keeping their native tongue as well. Its called assimilation.

[kingcap72]

Originally Posted by january

Exactly. When I moved overseas I learned the language within a span of two years...even though it was tough, I quickly grasped at least the basics so I could get around, get groceries, ask for help, etc. Nobody expects you to learn how to speak quantum physics and religious doctrine - but at least learn the basics, instead of having the expectation that everyone else will learn YOUR language so you don't have to be inconvenienced. I would never dream of not learning and hoping that other people would just bend over backwards to accommodate me - its so fucking rude and lazy. I have a Mexican friend who admits the same - she gets pissed when her mother, who has lived here for forty years, doesn't understand what is going on in a basic English conversation. She told me, "plain and simple, my mom is lazy and expects other people to do her shit for her, she never even tried." Tourists are totally and completely different. But when you live here, speak English. There is no excuse. I learned a language I had NEVER been exposed to prior to living there. You can learn a language that is very, very prevalent like English. It bugs the shit out of me, sorry - this is my pet peeve. And where I live there is a huge influx of Asians, and they ALL have managed to learn English while keeping their native tongue as well. Its called assimilation.

I agree with your entire post, especially the part in bold. Some people refuse to learn the language of their new country because it's too much trouble for them. Plus, they think that if they learn the new language that they're 'betraying' their native culture, which isn't the case at all.

[McJag]

Originally Posted by kingcap72

I agree with your entire post, especially the part in bold. Some people refuse to learn the language of their new country because it's too much trouble for them. Plus, they think that if they learn the new language that they're 'betraying' their native culture, which isn't the case at all.

And how do we help? We make it easier for them at every turn. Instructions, automated phone calls-there is no motivation to learn English. They knew we spoke English when they moved here. This should be onsisted upon-if only from a safety standpoint.

[A*O]

I was shocked when I called Alaskan (!?!?!) Airlines recently and the automated answering machine greeted me in Spanish (which luckily I understand a little) and asked me to press 1 if I preferred to continue in English. WTF?

[kingcap72]

Originally Posted by McJag

And how do we help? We make it easier for them at every turn. Instructions, automated phone calls-there is no motivation to learn English. They knew we spoke English when they moved here. This should be onsisted upon-if only from a safety standpoint.

Hey, I think the U.S. does more than enough to help people to learn English. But, at the same time, the U.S. doesn't put any real pressure on people to learn English anymore. How many times have those of us here in the U.S. had to call a business and instead of it being in English you have to listen to them give you the same information in different languages first? Or you get 'for English press 1?' Or you see more jobs expecting you to be bi-lingual?

While I think there's a demand for people to learn basic English in America, the politically correct world we live in makes it counterproductive to have people learn English. The cops in this story were wrong to issue citations to people for not speaking English, but the people should have already known some basic English to begin with.

[bellini]

There are a lot of immigrants from Mexico in California who simply refuse to learn English. I read an article about this and I can't remember the exact percentage, but it was substantial. They don't have to learn English as most everything is already in Spanish as well as English. They have their own built in communities, so why bother?

If I moved to Mexico, I would learn the language, especially if I was planning on living there permanently. I doubt Mexico is as accommodating with non-Spanish speakers.

[heart_leigh]

Originally Posted by january

Exactly. When I moved overseas I learned the language within a span of two years...even though it was tough, I quickly grasped at least the basics so I could get around, get groceries, ask for help, etc. Nobody expects you to learn how to speak quantum physics and religious doctrine - but at least learn the basics, instead of having the expectation that everyone else will learn YOUR language so you don't have to be inconvenienced. I would never dream of not learning and hoping that other people would just bend over backwards to accommodate me - its so fucking rude and lazy. I have a Mexican friend who admits the same - she gets pissed when her mother, who has lived here for forty years, doesn't understand what is going on in a basic English conversation. She told me, "plain and simple, my mom is lazy and expects other people to do her shit for her, she never even tried." Tourists are totally and completely different. But when you live here, speak English. There is no excuse. I learned a language I had NEVER been exposed to prior to living there. You can learn a language that is very, very prevalent like English. It bugs the shit out of me, sorry - this is my pet peeve. And where I live there is a huge influx of Asians, and they ALL have managed to learn English while keeping their native tongue as well. Its called assimilation.

My naturalized immigrant mother has lived in Canada for over 40 years as well, but she can converse in English albeit in a very heavy accent.

[buttmunch]

The States is not the only country that offers government services in other languages. Scandinavia ceertainly offers most, if not all, government services in a variety of languages.

I understand what you all are saying about learning the language but I can seriously tell you that I have found it close to impossible to learn anything beyond rudimentary words. And lord knows I've tried. I don't know why I can't but that's the way it is.

[katerpillar]

I do think it's best for people to learn the language of the country they move to when it's a permanent relocation. However, you can't learn a language overnight. As a kid, I met several other students at school who had moved to Australia from overseas and at first they and their parents could barely speak a word of English. Eventually they became fluent but to start with, those kids couldn't say a thing to anyone and it was a horrible experience for them. One kid I remember in particular was a Bosnian refugee who came over when we were in 1st grade. I took pity on him because he seemed so lonely and slooowly, along with the formal lessons he was taking, he started responding to me when I talked at him. By 5th grade he was fluent enough that when I drew first in the whole state for 5th Grade English... he was the kid I was equal first with. Damnit!

Anyway. The point is you can only help people to assimilate; you certainly can't expect it to be instant. If you treat them like kids treated the Bosnian boy by ignoring (or punishing) them because they can't speak to you yet, you'll hardly be lessening their alienation. There will always be a few stubborn ones, but I'm sure the majority genuinely want to learn the local language - and the first generation raised in the new country always do.

Besides, if you fine people for not speaking English how are you going to be able to tell who's a tourist and who isn't?

Buttmunch - some people are more linguistically talented, some aren't. It's like I've tried hard to learn ballet in the past... but I'll never be good enough at sequential processing or graceful physical coordination to be any decent at it!

[bellini]

The point is you can only help people to assimilate; you certainly can't expect it to be instant.

No I wouldn't expect it to be instant. I think Southern California has a unique problem though. The immigrants have a built in home away from home, giving them no motivation to learn the language. They have markets and shops that cater to them, everything is in Spanish. Which is great for those who refuse to learn the language. That's their choice.

What bothers me is how it affects the school system here. The kids whose parents won't learn the language have such a difficult time in school. This overburdens teachers who try to keep these kids up, pulls down test scores and our schools are in a dismal state.

I do agree that giving tickets for not speaking English is asinine. You can't force someone to learn the language if they don't want to. I don't know what the solution is.

[Kathie_Moffett]

Originally Posted by kingcap72

In the past, I've tried to learn Spanish and it was rough, so I sympathize with people who have a tough time learning a new language. But I don't sympathize with people who move to another country and still won't learn the language.

The person doesn't have to speak the language fluently, but they should still have a working knowledge of it so that they can communicate with people.

Originally Posted by january

Exactly. When I moved overseas I learned the language within a span of two years...even though it was tough, I quickly grasped at least the basics so I could get around, get groceries, ask for help, etc. Nobody expects you to learn how to speak quantum physics and religious doctrine - but at least learn the basics, instead of having the expectation that everyone else will learn YOUR language so you don't have to be inconvenienced. I would never dream of not learning and hoping that other people would just bend over backwards to accommodate me - its so fucking rude and lazy. I have a Mexican friend who admits the same - she gets pissed when her mother, who has lived here for forty years, doesn't understand what is going on in a basic English conversation. She told me, "plain and simple, my mom is lazy and expects other people to do her shit for her, she never even tried." Tourists are totally and completely different. But when you live here, speak English. There is no excuse. I learned a language I had NEVER been exposed to prior to living there. You can learn a language that is very, very prevalent like English. It bugs the shit out of me, sorry - this is my pet peeve. And where I live there is a huge influx of Asians, and they ALL have managed to learn English while keeping their native tongue as well. Its called assimilation.

Originally Posted by bellini

There are a lot of immigrants from Mexico in California who simply refuse to learn English. I read an article about this and I can't remember the exact percentage, but it was substantial. They don't have to learn English as most everything is already in Spanish as well as English. They have their own built in communities, so why bother?

If I moved to Mexico, I would learn the language, especially if I was planning on living there permanently. I doubt Mexico is as accommodating with non-Spanish speakers.

EXACTLY. Good grief. I take to languages pretty easily and have total sympathy for those who do not, but let's face it: those people are NOT in the majority. And, even if you are like that, I bet you can memorize a set of useful--possibly even lifesaving--phrases and words.

Thing is, it's not only rude as hell, exploitative, and bratty to go to a foreign country to LIVE, permanently, and expect everyone to bend over backwards to accommodate you. It's also impractical, expensive to your host country, and downright dangerous.

One of my best friends is training to be a 911 dispatcher and I'm urging her to learn Spanish as I think it'd be a huge career/hiring boost. So many operators do not and frankly, lives have been lost due to language barriers. Given the amount of non-English speakers from Mexico and Latin America around here, it's a good idea to know at least Spanish in that line of work. But this is the ONLY situation where I feel it's appropriate to take the initiative language-wise; after all, someone could be genuinely bad at languages, or they could've just gotten here and not had the opportunity to learn yet. They shouldn't be at risk of dying 'cause they can't speak English.

What nobody brings up, though, is the cost of all this. In CA everything has to be printed in Spanish and Spanish has to be integrated into EVERYTHING--nobody thinks of this but it COSTS MONEY. Money that could be so much better used for LOTS of other things. *sigh*

Even as it is, there are tons of free English classes around here--I checked. FREE. At NIGHT, so you don't have to miss work. Geezus. People drive me nuts.

p.s. January, I have a Latino friend who's really funny about this whole subject. He's like, "my parents immigrated legally, they made the effort to learn English, f*ck these lazy (insert colorful Spanish epithet) who won't get off their lazy asses and do the same." I was so startled when he said it that I couldn't stop cracking up.

[bellini]

p.s. January, I have a Latino friend who's really funny about this whole subject. He's like, "my parents immigrated legally, they made the effort to learn English, f*ck these lazy (insert colorful Spanish epithet) who won't get off their lazy asses and do the same." I was so startled when he said it that I couldn't stop cracking up.

I've found that their is a huge amount of hostility from people who have learned the language for those who won't. I agree with you, it's kind of arrogant to refuse to learn the language.

I believe it's a prerequisite to speak Spanish here in California if you want to be a 911 operator.

[katerpillar]

Originally Posted by bellini

No I wouldn't expect it to be instant. I think Southern California has a unique problem though. The immigrants have a built in home away from home, giving them no motivation to learn the language. They have markets and shops that cater to them, everything is in Spanish. Which is great for those who refuse to learn the language. That's their choice.

What bothers me is how it affects the school system here. The kids whose parents won't learn the language have such a difficult time in school. This overburdens teachers who try to keep these kids up, pulls down test scores and our schools are in a dismal state.

I do agree that giving tickets for not speaking English is asinine. You can't force someone to learn the language if they don't want to. I don't know what the solution is.

If there's going to be any solution, I think it's those kids. They will learn English - even if it's a strain on the schools in the meantime - and within a few decades they'll be adults. If anyone's going to be able to change the language habits of the immigrants who come after that, they will.

[caramel]

Originally Posted by msdeb

its America. speak English. Plain and Simple

Well I live in Finland. If you ever come to have a holiday here and don't speak finnish I hope you get a ticket.