Christian woman may sue after police investigate 'gay hate crime' letter

[McJag]

I hope someone kills me quick if I ever turn into an old biddy like her. I must say,I do like that teapot & cup set.

[Grimmlok]

I wonder if her head would fit into it. I'd like to drown her.

[Wiseguy]

Originally Posted by january

Exactly. In this particular case, she lodged a hateful and homophobic complaint, but she wasn't inciting violence. This should be covered under free speech, even as abhorrent as it is. Hell, we have Holocaust deniers, people who still think interracial marriage is wrong, etc. I find their views absolutely repugnant but I don't think we should censor them unless they start inciting violence. People are free to their views, however close-minded and stupid they are.

Absolutely correct. She has not incited any violence. She has expressed her views in a letter to a council member. There are a lot of repugnant views out there, but it doesn't mean we start throwing people in jail for them. If we do, then we're not living in a democracy.

[Grimmlok]

You're not living in a democracy now, you're living in the tattered remains of a representative republic.

eesh.

[venue_26]

I feel the police were well within their right to investigate. What if next year she throws an explosive down on the parade? Everyone would be up in arms about this lady who very publicly expressed her hate toward gays but was simply 'passed over.'
Sure, we all deserve a degree of freedom of speech, but hate is hate. Are we saying she was wronged because she is a batty old lady? What if the letter writer was a 20 or 30 year old male, Nazi skin head? Would you still agree his rights were violated, or agree that it was at least a good idea to check up?
Hate is hate.....despite the package it comes in.

[*DIVA!]

Originally Posted by Wiseguy

Absolutely correct. She has not incited any violence. She has expressed her views in a letter to a council member. There are a lot of repugnant views out there, but it doesn't mean we start throwing people in jail for them. If we do, then we're not living in a democracy.

She was inciting ignorance, and hate over a parade.

[RevellingInSane]

She was exercising free speech. Anyone who has engaged in sodomy is a sodomite. Get over it. She may really believe homosexuality has contributed to the spread of STDs and the downfall of society. That is her belief and she has a right to voice it. She did not incite a riot. Seriously, hate crimes and having hateful beliefs are not the same thing and people need to stop trying to force everyone to shut up and change their minds as long as what the person is doing is not causing or inciting others to cause harm.

If ignorance fueled speech is suddenly a crime, why aren't Rush Limbaugh and Al Sharpton behind bars?

[Alysheba]

Free speech is just that, free speech, anything else is oppression.

Opinions and attitudes cannot be governed, and never should be.

I agree with RevellingInSane. but I would add, 'hateful beliefs are not the same thing and people who are the object of that hate need to stop trying to force' others 'to shut up and' embrace their opinions. It is no different for a homosexual to declare hatred towards religious beliefs, than a religious person to stand by their convictions against homosexuality.

[Grimmlok]

Originally Posted by Alysheba

It is no different for a homosexual to declare hatred towards religious beliefs, than a religious person to stand by their convictions against homosexuality.

What a bunch of fucking bullshit.

For one, homosexuality does not oppress anybody else. It does not strip rights from anybody. It can't be used against religion in any way.

Religion, on the other hand, has historically been used to oppress, strip rights from, and abuse homosexuals.

If religious freaks left gays alone, there wouldn't be a fucking problem. The whole "standing by their convictions against homosexuality" actually means "being a bigoted piece of shit and hiding behind religion as a cover"

You would be up in arms if they were doing the same to blacks or jews, but since it's the gays it's "religious convictions" and perfectly acceptable, not "being a bigot and hiding behind jesus like a coward"

The only reason any gay person would hate religion is because religion is used against them as a weapon by bigots. Why the fuck else do you think they would hate it?

but I would add, 'hateful beliefs are not the same thing and people who are the object of that hate need to stop trying to force' others 'to shut up and' embrace their opinions.

Yeah, they should just sit there and take it? Fuck that. If i'm the object of hate, i'm going to do my best to either destroy the person that is inciting said hate, or i'm going to force them to shut up. Period. It's war, and they'll have started it by making me a target of their hate.

If they weren't hating, THERE WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. I wouldn't give a shit about them. It's not really that hard to comprehend.

[Nightdragon]

wow this old biddy is a loopy ol' biznatch. She damned crazy! I agree with McJag, if I get stupid like this, someone smack me.

She's a hater, plain and simple. No excuse for that. Rights are rights but she should learn a little tolerence.

[RevellingInSane]

Originally Posted by Alysheba

Free speech is just that, free speech, anything else is oppression.

Opinions and attitudes cannot be governed, and never should be.

I agree with RevellingInSane. but I would add, 'hateful beliefs are not the same thing and people who are the object of that hate need to stop trying to force' others 'to shut up and' embrace their opinions. It is no different for a homosexual to declare hatred towards religious beliefs, than a religious person to stand by their convictions against homosexuality.

You make a good point. Many who oppose religion revile it openly, but turn the tables and suddenly there is a hate crime involved? Bullshit. While a group may need protection so they are not oppressed, that protection can not force people to agree with the situation and remain quiet about how they feel.

Originally Posted by Grimmlok

What a bunch of fucking bullshit.

For one, homosexuality does not oppress anybody else. It does not strip rights from anybody. It can't be used against religion in any way.

Religion, on the other hand, has historically been used to oppress, strip rights from, and abuse homosexuals.

If religious freaks left gays alone, there wouldn't be a fucking problem. The whole "standing by their convictions against homosexuality" actually means "being a bigoted piece of shit and hiding behind religion as a cover"

You would be up in arms if they were doing the same to blacks or jews, but since it's the gays it's "religious convictions" and perfectly acceptable, not "being a bigot and hiding behind jesus like a coward"

The only reason any gay person would hate religion is because religion is used against them as a weapon by bigots. Why the fuck else do you think they would hate it?



Yeah, they should just sit there and take it? Fuck that. If i'm the object of hate, i'm going to do my best to either destroy the person that is inciting said hate, or i'm going to force them to shut up. Period. It's war, and they'll have started it by making me a target of their hate.

If they weren't hating, THERE WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. I wouldn't give a shit about them. It's not really that hard to comprehend.

She has every right to hate you and say so, whether you like it or not. Laws are not supposed to spare your feelings. As long as no one is harming you or lowering your quality of life, they are doing nothing more than expressing their opinions, which they are allowed to have.

How is what that woman wrote affecting you in any way? There are racists, ageists, sexists, etc. who legally can not use their beliefs to harm others but have every legal right to spew their shit if they so feel like it.

Are you honestly blaming religion for hatred? Religion, in any form, is subject to the interpretation of the individual.

You are going to force someone who speaks against something you feel strongly about to shut up? Damn, that sounds quite a bit like an oppressor who refuses to allow free thinking and the ability to form personal beliefs. The bolded text sounds exactly like the very force you hate for what you feel is oppression. See, it isn't the middle ground with the problem. Someone who writes that is exactly the same as the very type he "fights against". One side wants to force people to see homosexuality as wrong or immoral, while the other side wants to force everyone to accept it, agree with it, or at least not even have the option to express dissent.

Hate or not, she did not incite violence and to even insinuate anyone who happens not to agree with another should be forcibly silenced or punished is arrogant and duplicitous.

[Grimmlok]

Originally Posted by RevellingInSane

You make a good point. Many who oppose religion revile it openly, but turn the tables and suddenly there is a hate crime involved? Bullshit. While a group may need protection so they are not oppressed, that protection can not force people to agree with the situation and remain quiet about how they feel.

Many who revile religion have been oppressed by it. It's not a chicken and egg situation. Religion ALWAYS starts it, the hate always originates there.

She has every right to hate you and say so, whether you like it or not. Laws are not supposed to spare your feelings.

She can, i'll just do my best to bury her voice. The world doesn't need more hate.

As long as no one is harming you or lowering your quality of life, they are doing nothing more than expressing their opinions, which they are allowed to have.

Her opinions lower the quality of life for everybody. Bigoted hate for no reason lowers us all.

How is what that woman wrote affecting you in any way? There are racists, ageists, sexists, etc. who legally can not use their beliefs to harm others but have every legal right to spew their shit if they so feel like it.

The same way it would affect you if she suddenly said that "niggers were the downfall of society".

Are you honestly blaming religion for hatred? Religion, in any form, is subject to the interpretation of the individual.

Religion is a tool, a weapon. It's also an excuse, a justification. It's something people can use against others to oppress and abuse. It always has been, and always will be. I don't blame religion that much, despite it being ridiculous and flawed and nonsensical. I blame religionists.

You are going to force someone who speaks against something you feel strongly about to shut up? Damn, that sounds quite a bit like an oppressor who refuses to allow free thinking and the ability to form personal beliefs.

Oh here we fucking go again. No, I will force BIGOTS to shut up. I'm intolerant of their intolerance. If they weren't bigots, there wouldn't be a fucking problem.

The bolded text sounds exactly like the very force you hate for what you feel is oppression. See, it isn't the middle ground with the problem. Someone who writes that is exactly the same as the very type he "fights against". One side wants to force people to see homosexuality as wrong or immoral, while the other side wants to force everyone to accept it, agree with it, or at least not even have the option to express dissent.

Like racists or anti semites, their views are not "dissent". They're bigoted and full of hate. Period. It has no rational basis, nnor any scientific basis, it's pure hate for the sake of hate. Period.

Trying to suppress THAT is not a bad thing.

We've already had this discussion a thousand times. Being intolerant of bigoted intolerance is good. IF PEOPLE LIKE HER DID NOT HATE, THERE WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. They are the ones who start it. They are the ones who attack people. They are the ones who are bigoted against others for no reason, and fighting against that any way you can is NOT wrong.

Hate or not, she did not incite violence and to even insinuate anyone who happens not to agree with another should be forcibly silenced or punished is arrogant and duplicitous.

Her words are as bad as any racist or anti semite. Last I checked, those people were openly reviled and shut down. Their parades banned. Their websites and other hate outlets monitored by the authorities.

It will be nice when religious bigots have the same treatment.

[RevellingInSane]

You are right. We have had this discussion a thousand times and as long as you defend your position that silencing the opposition is acceptable, you will just have to deal with those, who like me, couldn't care less that because a subject hits close to home you want to deny free speech because it upsets you.

Scream over them. For every comment someone you disagree with makes, make two. What you want is those who do not agree with homosexuality to shut up and that is utter bullshit.

Unlike you, I would not blow a gasket and demand someone's right to speak be taken away because she said nigger whatever. You on the other hand are supporting forcible silence, when in her case, she didn't even resort to using derogatory names like faggot, and even if she did say faggots were the downfall of society, so what? Her opinion, her right.

Get a thicker skin if sodomite bothers you. If a man or woman has had a penis penetrate any hole other than a vagina, tag yourself sodomite and go on with your hopefully happy sex life. Who gives a fuck what she thinks?

What you want is the suppression of anti-gay sentiment, writing, vocalizations, etc. It's not the rest of the world's fault if you are so sensitive mere words cut you to your core. As if you have never posted something which was tinged with what could be construed at bigotry or purposeful attempts at being offensive? Should you be banned from communicating your thoughts?

Religion is nothing more than an intangible belief. It has no control over how those wielding the texts use it. Blame the individuals who utilize that tool to harm others, not the tool itself.

You don't want to force what you call bigots to be quiet, you want to force those who speak out against a situation you support and are admittedly in to stop saying things which hurt you and you respond to with hostility. Your easily pushed buttons are your personal issue and lawmakers, along with the public at large, do not have time to repeal the First Amendment because you can't shake it off.

For your information, the KKK has held marches and challenged bans successfully in the US. There was a public gathering of white supremacists in the south as recently as late last year. As long as they do not incite disorderly behavior or violence, they are allowed the right to assembly, another one of those pesky damn rights.

You can not expect your rights to be granted, then have the nerve to ask censorship for your particular situation be granted because you can't handle what someone else says, thinks, or believes.

[Grimmlok]

Yes, i contend that bigots, homophobes, racists and anti semites and all other peddlers of hate should be silenced.

Period.

You don't want to force what you call bigots to be quiet, you want to force those who speak out against a situation you support and are admittedly in to stop saying things which hurt you and you respond to with hostility.

a situation i support?

sexual orientation is no more a "situation" to be supported than the color of your black skin is, deary.

the fact that you'd refer to it as such is fucking revolting, but not unusual for you.

[lurkur]

Originally Posted by RevellingInSane

You make a good point. Many who oppose religion revile it openly, but turn the tables and suddenly there is a hate crime involved? Bullshit. While a group may need protection so they are not oppressed, that protection can not force people to agree with the situation and remain quiet about how they feel.

She has every right to hate you and say so, whether you like it or not. Laws are not supposed to spare your feelings. As long as no one is harming you or lowering your quality of life, they are doing nothing more than expressing their opinions, which they are allowed to have.

The religious bigots do affect people's quality of life. There are innumerable loving families right now who do not have rights "entitled" to other citizens. That's because a majority population who chose a belief system decided to impose it on everyone else. That's not just expressing an opinion, that's using an opinion to deny other citizens rights.

How is what that woman wrote affecting you in any way? There are racists, ageists, sexists, etc. who legally can not use their beliefs to harm others but have every legal right to spew their shit if they so feel like it.

Are you honestly blaming religion for hatred? Religion, in any form, is subject to the interpretation of the individual.

I'm glad you brought up that individuals decide what to believe. Religion is a choice. An individual choice. Homosexuality isn't a choice, yet people are denied human rights because of it.

What if there was a population of 90% gay people who were born that way, and they decided to strip rights from the remaining 10% of people because "the straights are crippling civilization because they don't conform with the rest of society"? What if they decided to do the same to religious believers, stripping them of rights because religion is clearly a choice, and people choose to use it for hate thus harming family values? Would that be ok?

You are going to force someone who speaks against something you feel strongly about to shut up? Damn, that sounds quite a bit like an oppressor who refuses to allow free thinking and the ability to form personal beliefs. The bolded text sounds exactly like the very force you hate for what you feel is oppression. See, it isn't the middle ground with the problem. Someone who writes that is exactly the same as the very type he "fights against". One side wants to force people to see homosexuality as wrong or immoral, while the other side wants to force everyone to accept it, agree with it, or at least not even have the option to express dissent.

The first part of the bolded statement, about religion, is true. The second part is not. It's called freedom. Some say "live and let live." Religious-based legislation does force obedience to a chosen belief system upon others. Homosexual couples (as well as any hetero civil rights advocate, libertarian, and you'd think every freedom-lovin' American) don't want to force their neighbors to do anything in the bedroom, they just want other people to get out of theirs.
A neighbor doesn't have to "accept" or "agree" with homosexuality anymore than they have to "accept" their neighbor eating peas instead of carrots at dinnertime (and even dinner is a choice). It's none of their business.

Hate or not, she did not incite violence and to even insinuate anyone who happens not to agree with another should be forcibly silenced or punished is arrogant and duplicitous.

Sadly, at this age, the woman has had long, long years' worth of opportunity to spew her garbage. The drawback to free speech is that the rest of us have to go and clean it up lest it start festering. I doubt this lady turned batty racist all of the sudden. Hate is something that grows in people, starting with these lies she's been fed.