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Thread: Caroline Lovell: Home birth advocate dies delivering own baby daughter at home

  1. #46
    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    I know very few people that have been induced or have scheduled c-sections. Out of my close friends I'm the only one that has had a c-section, and none of them have been induced. I begged for a c-section on my last visit and was shot down. My doctors group won't do a c for no reason. Has to be for the health of the baby or mother...or if you've had a c-section before. You can schedule the surgery or opt to try a vbac.

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    Or a dumb woman I know who had twins via emergency c-section and then decided she wanted her third child at home "naturally" which her docs strongly advised her not to attempt. She refused to listen, got in her Navaho birthing blanket and some hippy "midwife" who didn't have a clue what she was doing. After a very long labour she finally realised that mother and baby were in trouble and called an ambulance. She just got the the OR in time before her uterus ruptured and they had to haul out the baby and give the mother multiple blood transfusions. Her family was told she probably wouldn't live. Anyway, she did survive (just) but the baby had catastrophic brain damage because he should have been born many hours earlier and his life support was switched off the next day. And all because she decided to do it 'naturally'.
    How can you trust anything that bleeds for 3 days every month but doesn't die?

  3. #48
    Elite Member badgers!'s Avatar
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    [QUOTE=olivia;2643330]Badgers, most women you know have been induced?

    Yes, nearly every single one. I thought the induction issue here in the US was a widely known problem. Like you mentioned though, I don't ask every single woman I encounter how she birthed. But it's a definite trend. The latest being hubby's cousin who was induced for low amniotic fluid and gave birth to a 5 pound baby girl two days ago.

    I was having trouble finding exact numbers for inductions, but I ran across a great article from Time that discusses the problem:
    Cesarean Deliveries Rise Alongside Rate of Induced Labor - TIME

    In the article, The author of one study noted that 44% of women had their labors induced. She is quoted as being surprised by our high rates of induction.

    I'm not saying that every mom should give birth at home. Clearly, some moms should be in the hospital as certain medical conditions make that the safest place for them. Some women are idiots and should birth in a hospital rather than at home. Some natural childbirth types have really sullied the home birth movement and I fully admit I've read stuff from them that's made me cringe.

    Interventions in labor are wonderful and save lives, but when they are applied to every single laboring women then one has the potential to cause harm or even kill. Doctors need to wait until there is evidence to show that the benefit of the intervention outweighs the risk, instead of using them routinely and never discussing risks.

    What I am saying is that there is clearly a huge problem with maternity care here in the US, as evidenced by our numbers and something needs to change. As stated before, our maternal mortality rate here in California alone tripled from '96-'06. That's huge, and yet the media outlets never really picked up on it. I never read the names of the women who died in hospitals here, or why they died. I guess it's more fun to sensationalize the random home birth death. I guarantee you, had this woman died in a hospital, even had it been the result of tinkering in labor, like Tatia Oden French, we would never hear about it. I only know of Ms French because her mother has become an activist.

    If a woman dies from a massive uterine rupture after being given cytotec to induce her labor, well then that's just life and no one is at fault, even if the the induction is elective. But if a woman dies in a home birth well then clearly she's an idiot. That bothers me. Is the woman who dies after an unnecessary induction using off label drugs just as stupid? Or is that ok because she's in a hospital? Why are the only preventable childbirth deaths we hear about occurring outside the hospital, when the more relevant topic for the media to cover is why are more women dying in childbirth IN hospitals and can we prevent that? Especially since the that latter number is so much larger than the former and statistically, the vast majority of women will be birthing in the hospital.

  4. #49
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    [QUOTE=badgers!;2643455]
    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post

    If a woman dies from a massive uterine rupture after being given cytotec to induce her labor, well then that's just life and no one is at fault, even if the the induction is elective. But if a woman dies in a home birth well then clearly she's an idiot. That bothers me. Is the woman who dies after an unnecessary induction using off label drugs just as stupid? Or is that ok because she's in a hospital? Why are the only preventable childbirth deaths we hear about occurring outside the hospital, when the more relevant topic for the media to cover is why are more women dying in childbirth IN hospitals and can we prevent that? Especially since the that latter number is so much larger than the former and statistically, the vast majority of women will be birthing in the hospital.
    The latter number is larger because the majority of women give birth in hospitals. It would be more accurate to research the percentage of death among women who give birth at home vs. hospital births, not the actual numbers.

    People who die in the hospital setting are not called idiots because they have presumably taken every precaution that is available to them, while at-home births are not taking advantage of the life saving resources available in hospitals.

    Not that I am saying that your home birthing was idiotic, Badgers, I'm just expressing a point of view. I'm glad for you that the birthing experience you chose worked out so well for you.
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    I don't know of a single person who had an induced labor, except for 1 that was way past due.
    And I love in the United States.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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    Gold Member eeyore0101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    I don't know of a single person who had an induced labor, except for 1 that was way past due.
    And I love in the United States.
    All this loving in the US is what is causing all these births
    Is it Happy Hour yet?

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eeyore0101 View Post
    All this loving in the US is what is causing all these births
    I am so leaving that!!
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    it's her own damn fault for being a dumbass and shunning the medical advances we've achieved since 1912. she died because of her own stupidity. no pity from me.
    i know people like to get all hippie dippy and sentimental about how much nicer and cozier and shit it is to have the baby at home and stuff, like it's some magical moment. and yeah, the minute you see your kid it probably is a magical moment but the hours before that are painful and require medical assistance just in case anything goes wrong, and to purposefully deprive yourself of that for the sake of a cozier ambiance is fucking retarded, imo.
    well said!!!

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    badgers, my brother's wife is the total opposite of natural. After her first child, she doctor shopped for anyone who would give her a scheduled c-section with the second. She could find no obstetrician who would do it. This is in the South.

    No doctor would induce her, either, when she felt it was time. No doctor would let her control the event the way she wanted to. She had to go through the process normally.

    For all her dislike of the childbirth process, my SIL is one of the best mothers I've ever seen.

    My SIL in Europe had the c-section under hazy conditions. She was over 40 with her first child, so I give it a pass.
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    There is a pretty interesting document on maternal mortality in the United States, with the link below (prepared by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services):

    http://www.hrsa.gov/ourstories/mchb7...lmortality.pdf

    What stands out (for me) is that in the United States in 1935, maternal mortality averaged across all races was just under 600 deaths for every 100,000 live births. In 2007, the average was 12.7.

    The data that I am seeing shows that in 1991, the death rate hit its bottom - about 4 maternal deaths for every 100,000 live births. In 2006, it was about 9. According to the report, the reasons for the increase were the following:
    In a state-level ecological analysis, higher levels of poverty rates, percentage of immigrant population, and cesarean rates were independently associated with higher maternal mortality rates.
    According to the report, the poverty rate had the highest correlation with increased maternal mortality rates. I think that tends to make sense because if you are at or below the poverty line, you probably have no health insurance, and are less likely to be able to consult with an ob/gyn about the progress of the pregnancy, and possible complications.

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    Elite Member msdeb's Avatar
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    i can honestly say that i have NO problem giving birth in a hospital with drugs and nurses and doctors taking care of me. i'm a big wuss where childbirth pain is concerned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    Thank you for that! I have been reading it on Amazon & I have ordered it. Never heard of that book and would hate to miss it. Anyone interested in history would also love this.
    Oops, missed this. Hope you enjoy it the way I did. Just wait till you get to the entries on the autopsies the Midwife attended. That blew my mind. What she went through for the simple sake of learning is incredible. It was a different world back then.

    Quote Originally Posted by msdeb View Post
    i can honestly say that i have NO problem giving birth in a hospital with drugs and nurses and doctors taking care of me. i'm a big wuss where childbirth pain is concerned.
    That is probably my SIL's feeling as well. Since she was gorgeous while pregnant and a stellar mom, I don't think her feelings about childbirth permanently effected her or her kids. She wanted it over with. All the doctors told her she was completely capable of handling the experience as naturally as possible. She still demanded every drug they offered for pain.
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    At my last OB appointment at 40 weeks, she decided I'd be induced a week later if nothing had changed by then. I went into labor naturally 2 days after the appointment.
    avatar made by green_queen@LJ

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    Elite Member MrsDark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badgers! View Post
    Sure it is. It's well within the norm now. Average newborns weigh anywhere from 7-10 pounds, making a 9 pound baby totally within the range of normal.
    That's an awfully big fucking range when you're talking about a newborn. I'll agree that 9lbs is a little closer to "the norm" (i.e. average) today than it was decades ago. But that's exactly the opposite of what you were saying when you talked about OB's being "scared to death" over 9lb babies. 9lb babies are still considered large even now that we're seeing them a little more frequently. But as for OB's being scared to death of them? Not hardly.

    I'll tell you what OB's (doctors and nurses) are scared of, and certainly have a right to be: Lawsuits. As an RN who worked L&D for awhile, with several friends and ex-coworkers who still do, I can tell you that the liability is so much greater than any other type of practice. That's a big reason I didn't stay with it, in spite of the fact that I enjoyed it while I did it. Anything that can be traced back to the delivery....statute of limitations is 21 years now in most states. This is a major reason why more C-Sections are done now. Better C than sorry!
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    czb
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    Quote Originally Posted by badgers! View Post
    . . .
    I was having trouble finding exact numbers for inductions, but I ran across a great article from Time that discusses the problem:
    Cesarean Deliveries Rise Alongside Rate of Induced Labor - TIME

    In the article, The author of one study noted that 44% of women had their labors induced. She is quoted as being surprised by our high rates of induction.

    . . . .
    actually, the way that the number (44%) is quoted in Time is ambiguous - you can't tell if it's 44% of all births or 44% of c-sections. that's one of the problems with citing #s from a popular publication instead of a medical one. anyhoo, i don't have time to dig up the original article from pubmed but personally, i don't know *anyone* who was induced except for myself. and i was >40, carrying twins, and was very late term. so i don't fit the mold.

    there might be times when it is ok to deliver at home a la ina mae. i remember having this discussion with one of the OBs in my family. in her opinion, it might be ok when the woman is <26, is healthy, has been seen by a physician throughout the pregnancy, it's a singleton pregnancy, and a few other factors. but that probably doesn't cover most of us.

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