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Thread: Caroline Lovell: Home birth advocate dies delivering own baby daughter at home

  1. #31
    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean James View Post
    I'm pro-hospital birth for this very reason, you never know what could happen. And since I live in a very crunchy part of the country, the hospital we're going to is more than accommodating towards a holistic and natural approach so if I want to bay at the moon and chew leather straps, I'm good to go.
    The hospital where I gave birth was the same way. You could squat on the bed and hold onto the bars, each room was private and had a jacuzzi tub. You could only use the tub up until your water broke, after that te wouldn't let you.

    I didn't get to use anything. I ended up in a c section because the baby wasn't "cooperating"

  2. #32
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    Sorry, but she was an idiot.
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  3. #33
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    One of the polemics used in this Home Birthing movement is that hospitals will force you to have a c-section. They use the statistics to show that home births and birthing centers end up in fewer c-sections than hospital births.

    Well, duh. You can't give a c-section at home or in a birthing center. The cases that need them get sent to hospitals, hopefully. So, of course hospitals will register more c-sections.

    It's been forgotten how many women and babies used to die in childbirth. Is the natural experience at home worth that?
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  4. #34
    Elite Member stef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    it's her own damn fault for being a dumbass and shunning the medical advances we've achieved since 1912. she died because of her own stupidity. no pity from me.
    i know people like to get all hippie dippy and sentimental about how much nicer and cozier and shit it is to have the baby at home and stuff, like it's some magical moment. and yeah, the minute you see your kid it probably is a magical moment but the hours before that are painful and require medical assistance just in case anything goes wrong, and to purposefully deprive yourself of that for the sake of a cozier ambiance is fucking retarded, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post
    Sorry, but she was an idiot.
    this.
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  5. #35
    Bronze Member Banshee's Avatar
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    100 years ago, if women were told that they could have their babies with over 90+ percent certainty that they AND their babies would survive childbirth, they would have done whatever it was that guaranteed it. People forget how difficult and dangerous giving birth used to be for women and babies and how high mortality used to be. We should be grateful for the advances medical science has made in regards to this, not turn our noses up at it.

    If I hear one more woman tell me that "it's natural, our bodies are made to do this" I'm going to tweek. Learn some history and educate yourself before making a decision.

    *edited for ranting language.
    Last edited by Banshee; February 4th, 2012 at 12:12 PM.

  6. #36
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    I had my son at home.
    Posted from my iPhone
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Kill Me View Post
    I had my son at home.
    Posted from my iPhone
    I can't help but think that is so cool. Who wouldn't rather have their kid at home rather than in one of those hospital gowns, legs in the air and strangers jabbing away? At the same time, the number of dead babies and mothers declined, in my family, in the generation where labor was overseen by trained medical professionals.

    On the other hand, my FIL and his 9 siblings was all born at home with his grandmother in attendance. This grandmother was the Bitch In Charge of all midwives in Cordoba Spain. She did the training and oversaw the whole Midwife guild. She was paid top peso to attend births. She oversaw the births of all her grandchildren. None were lost, though one she sent to a hospital, no one knows why.

    She's one of those people I'd love to know more about.

    Great book on this subject - The Midwife's Tale - NOT the fiction book, but the history that won the Pulitzer. This historian meticulously put together the life of this midwife, in Maine circa 1800, with her journals (which were rotting in a basement) and census records. It's a fantastic read.
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  8. #38
    Elite Member Bluebonnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    it's her own damn fault for being a dumbass and shunning the medical advances we've achieved since 1912. she died because of her own stupidity. no pity from me.
    i know people like to get all hippie dippy and sentimental about how much nicer and cozier and shit it is to have the baby at home and stuff, like it's some magical moment. and yeah, the minute you see your kid it probably is a magical moment but the hours before that are painful and require medical assistance just in case anything goes wrong, and to purposefully deprive yourself of that for the sake of a cozier ambiance is fucking retarded, imo.

    ^^^^ THIS!! You took the words right off my fingers!

  9. #39
    Elite Member Rusalka's Avatar
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    In my (very inexperienced) opinion, it seems rather selfish to go the home-birth route, putting your unborn child's life in danger for the sake of... what? A more zen environment or something? A more magical experience? I think it's terribly irresponsible to not at least give yourself the option of using the medical services available should something go wrong. As stated earlier in this thread, there are hospitals out there that will work with your wishes, keep you drug free if you so choose, etc., so I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to have someone there just in case something horrible happens. Women have been giving birth for millennia, yes, but women and their children have also been dying in childbirth for millennia. Why not take advantage of medical advances, if not for yourself, but for your child whose life you are also putting in danger along with your own?

  10. #40
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    I lurk mostly these days, but this is a topic dear to my heart. I had my first in a hospital. It was a disaster and left both my son and I with mild injuries that, thankfully, healed quickly. I was talked into what I now know was an unnecessary induction (you don't want that baby to get too big) that very nearly ended in a cesarean. My son had bruising and swelling on his head from the vacuum and a couple of small scars from where the scalp probes tore. Cytotec was one of the drugs used to induce my labor. It is incredibly dangerous, and responsible for the deaths of multiple women already and yet, it is still routinely used in hospitals despite pleas from the manufacturer not to do so.

    It was out of safety that I sought alternatives, not because I desired some hippy-dippy experience or because some celebrity told me to. Though I will say, the hippy dippy experience was an awesome perk I wasn't expecting. I read everything I could get my hands on. From Ina May to Michel Odent to Marsden Wagner. Amnesty International has called out the US' maternity care system for the epic fail that it is multiple times. We are consistently ranked lower the nearly all other industrialized nations. Simply put, despite the fact the we spend more money than any other nation on birth and 99% of our populace births in the hospital, more moms and babies die. I was horrified to learn that in California alone, our maternal mortality rate tripled from 1996-2006. I'm aware that that's not exactly applicable, given that this didn't take place in the US, but I hope to shed some light on why some of us chose to stay home instead.

    The problem is that doctors, generally speaking of course, don't know anything about normal birth. Most have never seen one. They're so used to inducing and sectioning women that that knowledge is being lost. Our bodies work, and they work well or else we would have died out eons ago. When you tinker with a process that works just fine on its own 99% of the time, you're going to screw things up. Babies go into distress and you lose moms. Yes, there are some women who will need assistance. Thank God for drugs and cesareans, because they save lives when applied appropriately. But 33% of the women here are now getting cesareans and the number is climbing. Right all with our infant and maternal mortality rates. I believe the WHO condemns cesarean rates over 10%. What happened to the mom in the article is incredibly tragic. But the problem I have is the assumption that hospitals are automatically safer and can guarantee a good outcome. No one can guarantee a good outcome and that's part of what we sign up for when we decide to have kids. That's why it's so important to hire a qualified care provider. One you know has your best interest at heart.

    I have since gone on to have two more babies at home. Baby number 4 is due in September, and barring any complications, he or she will be born home too. Baby 2 took all weekend to come out and was 9 pounds and healthy. No vacuum necessary! Had I been in a hospital, I'm not sure they would have allowed to me labor so long with her even though her heart tones were always good, verified by midwife's doppler. It took me several hours to push her out and I know 9 pound babies scare OBs now, even though they used to be the norm.

    Baby #3 was a water birth. He was posterior during labor and turned before I pushed him out. He came out with a cord around his neck and the midwife just looped it over his head. No big deal and actually quite common. He did have some trouble breathing which brings me to my next point : midwives are prepared to deal with various outcomes. The baby was grunting and couldn't get a breath in. In a home birth setting, the cord is not cut until it stops pulsing so he never got blue while she worked on him. A few claps on the back, suctioning, and some oxygen from the tank and he was fine. Then we cut the cord.

    My baby was injured and exposed to a variety of dangerous drugs unnecessarily in the hospital and I sought an alternative. I am not just an incubator for a baby and just because I choose to birth at home doesn't meant I'm putting my interest ahead of theirs. If i had a tranverse breech or placenta previa, you'd better believe I'd be getting a cesarean and be greatful for it! The two interest aren't mutually exclusive. And there are a number of studies that do speak to the safety of planned homebirth with qualified attendants. If it were that unsafe, believe me, The ACOG would be citing something other than the thoroughly debunked Wax metaanalysis, which did not control for planned homebirths versus accidental and used flawed data sets dating from the 70s.

    That said, I couldn't care less where a mom gives birth. As long as mom has been given her options and made an informed choice, then who am I to shit on that? Some moms want an epidural and some opt for elective cesareans and there is nothing wrong with that. What I hate is when governments take a very tragic story and then use it as ammo to take away my rights and force me to birth where and how they want. Does a home birth have risks? Absolutely! Does a hospital birth have risks? Definitely! Having gone both routes I chose the risk set I was more comfortable with. My body, my baby, my choice.

    And there you have it - a homebirth-a-festo!

  11. #41
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    9lb babies were never the norm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    Great book on this subject - The Midwife's Tale - NOT the fiction book, but the history that won the Pulitzer. This historian meticulously put together the life of this midwife, in Maine circa 1800, with her journals (which were rotting in a basement) and census records. It's a fantastic read.
    Thank you for that! I have been reading it on Amazon & I have ordered it. Never heard of that book and would hate to miss it. Anyone interested in history would also love this.
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    Elite Member badgers!'s Avatar
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    Sure it is. It's well within the norm now. Average newborns weigh anywhere from 7-10 pounds, making a 9 pound baby totally within the range of normal. The reason I think we're not seeing them as often is because the vast majority of labors are induced now. I can't remember the actual stat but I want to say its somewhere in the neighborhood of 70%? Which goes hand in hand with another problem on the rise here : complications from prematurity.

    In my own personal experience, and I fully admit it's limited and heresay, I do not know of a single woman who went into labor on her own, with the exception of the couple of friends I have who also home birth, one of which is a L&D nurse. Every single one of them was induced if they weren't already scheduled for a cesarean. Again, I have no problem with any of that if mom is informed of the risks involved and it's what she wants. I just hate the hypocrisy of the medical community when they tell me on one hand that home birth is risky, then proceed to pump women full of dangerous or experimental drugs (oftentimes unnecessarily, as was my case)or cut them open and never tell them the risks of any of it. It floors me that they'd rather ban home birth and midwifery than practice evidence based care and true informed consent.
    Last edited by badgers!; February 4th, 2012 at 07:40 PM. Reason: Edited to add the word -know-

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    Badgers, most women you know have been induced? Wow, I can't think of one of my friends or relatives who was. Everyone I know started contracting normally, water broke, to the hospital (or birthing center) they went.

    I haven't asked every woman I've ever met, but only my husband's sister had a c-section for reasons that still aren't clear to me.
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  15. #45
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    It's naive to think that docs don't induce births to suit their diaries. Some hospitals are too quick to suggest induction and/or c-section but that has more to do with the fear of litigation than the best interests of the mother and/or child. If we are lucky enough to have access to hospital care - hopefully not too medicalised or intrusive - then go for it although it does makes you wonder how the millions of women worldwide who don't have that option manage.
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