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Thread: Brain-Dead Woman Forced to Stay on Life Support Because She’s Pregnant

  1. #76
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    This is good new, but I can't help but think that if the baby has been healthy the ruling would have gone differently. In the end, what it tells me is that women's value appear to resides strictly in her womb. Sad.

  2. #77
    Elite Member badgers!'s Avatar
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    The hospital still hasn't disconnected her. They're talking to the DA about it right now. This is insane! There's nothing to discuss. Why won't they comply with the judges orders?

  3. #78
    Gold Member manningmsj's Avatar
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    ^^^
    My understanding is that hospital's issue is with the interpretation of the law as it's written. It states that a pregnant patient may not be removed from life support, causing confusion over whether someone is still considered a patient after brain death. The law is obviously ridiculous and poorly constructed, but I think the hospital has always been the true impediment in this case. They've zeroed in on the pregnancy and the fetus, instead of whether or not Marlise, as a dead person, is still technically a patient. Since the judge didn't rule on the constitutionality of the law, but only whether it applied in this case, the hospital can still appeal before the deadline on Monday. I'm not sure what grounds they would have considered they agreed with the family that Marlise has met the criteria for brain death since November 28th, unless they try to argue in defense of the fetus. I don't know how well that would work, though, since they also seemed to agree that the fetus is not viable.

    I think it all comes down to an agenda on the part of the hospital, and whether or not they will let this go or exhaust their legal efforts in an attempt to drag out the pregnancy. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see anything that suggests they have any real shot at getting the ruling overturned. They've already pretty much conceded that Marlise and the fetus are dead, so I don't see what they stand to gain in an appeal. Other than putting this family through more torture, that is.

    I do hope this will serve as a precedent in future cases. I don't see this law going away soon, so it's important that it be clarified at the very least. This whole story is a nightmare. It kinda makes me wonder if things would be different if this and the Jahi McMath case had happened in opposite states. Since it all seems to come down to the definition of legal death, and the ethics of continuing treatment on a deceased person, I wonder if Marlise would already be buried in California and Jahi would be allowed to rot in the hospital in Texas.
    MmeVertigina likes this.
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  4. #79
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manningmsj View Post

    I do hope this will serve as a precedent in future cases. I don't see this law going away soon, so it's important that it be clarified at the very least. This whole story is a nightmare. It kinda makes me wonder if things would be different if this and the Jahi McMath case had happened in opposite states. Since it all seems to come down to the definition of legal death, and the ethics of continuing treatment on a deceased person, I wonder if Marlise would already be buried in California and Jahi would be allowed to rot in the hospital in Texas.
    I think there is a comment on the previous page that says California also has this law.
    By dragging this out they actually encouraged the fact that this fetus/baby would feel some pain. Just sick.

  5. #80
    Elite Member badgers!'s Avatar
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    Hospital: No decision on order to end life support - News Nation - Boston.com


    Hospital: No decision on order to end life support


    The Associated Press
    Erick Munoz, center, husband of Marlise Munoz is escorted by attorneys as he walks to 96th District Court Friday, Jan. 24, 2014 in Fort Worth, Texas. A judge has ordered a Texas hospital to remove life support for a pregnant, brain-dead woman. Judge R. H. Wallace Jr. issued the ruling Friday in the case of Marlise Munoz. John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth has been keeping Munoz on life support against her family's wishes. Munoz was 14 weeks pregnant when her husband found her unconscious Nov. 26, possibly due to a blood clot. (AP Photo/Tim Sharp)By NOMAAN MERCHANT / Associated Press / January 25, 2014

    FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — A spokeswoman for a Texas hospital says it won’t say Saturday whether it plans to appeal a judge’s order to take a pregnant brain-dead woman off of life support.J.R. Labbe says John Peter Smith Hospital won’t announce a decision Saturday but she didn’t say when it might.

    A judge gave the Fort Worth hospital until Monday at 5 p.m. to comply with his ruling to remove Marlise Munoz from life support, which her husband Erick Munoz says she would have wanted.

    She was 14 weeks pregnant when her husband found her unconscious Nov. 26, possibly due to a blood clot.

    The hospital says it has a legal duty to protect the fetus and is considering an appeal.

    © Copyright 2014 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.






    Last edited by twitchy2.0; January 25th, 2014 at 10:10 PM.

  6. #81
    Elite Member MmeVertigina's Avatar
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    No fucking way.
    The hospital says it has a legal duty to protect the fetus and is considering an appeal.
    Because they have done such a great job at protecting it so far, from what?!!! from pain? No. From having a poor quality of life? No. Protecting it from what? They let this continue until this baby formed into a reality that is not pleasant or painless. I feel for the father so much, he now has to let go of his wife and his baby knowing it is at a term that is nearly viable had things progressed normally.
    Last edited by MmeVertigina; January 25th, 2014 at 08:59 PM. Reason: quotes not working.

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    This is just so sad. If the fetus were viable and the family thought she would want this, that would be one thing, but neither of those things are true, and the pain and suffering is just being needlessly drawn out and a shitton of money is being thrown right down the drain. No, it's not all about the money, but end of life care for people who don't want it is a huge drain on the health care system and this is a shining example of it.

  8. #83
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    This will be a worry right up til Monday Dday time. Just hold your breath.
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    Poor woman, poor husband and at this point, poor fetus. Why bring a baby into the world under these circumstances, knowing the fetus is not viable. To have a painful, brief existence?
    MmeVertigina and dexter7 like this.

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    I'm speechless. It's shocking to realize how barbaric we still are.
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  11. #86
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    A few days ago, there was an article posted in the Jahi McMath thread that some doctor wrote in defense of her parents. Everyone seemed to agree that it was bullshit and totally biased, and I even remember laughing out loud as I read his explanation for the hospital's decision to withdraw life support in her case. He basically refused to acknowledge that the hospital had any valid medical reason to deny her treatment, and instead wrote off an entire medical community as pathological narcissists who refused to let her family get a second opinion. I read it and was just shocked by how stupid he sounded, trying to make it seem like there was this big conspiracy on the hospital's part to murder some random kid. It was just completely senseless and all I could think was how fucking insulting it was to his readers to use such thin logic to make his point. I kept wondering, who the fuck would buy this bullshit? People are really just supposed to believe an entire hospital is evil and sadistic and there's no fucking reason behind what they're doing? They just looked at this girl and were like, "hey, wouldn't it be fun to kill her and torment her loved ones?"

    It's still a stupid fucking argument for that case, but it suddenly seems like less of a stretch in reality here. I keep trying to find one solid piece of medical evidence to support what the hospital is doing and I keep coming up empty. I think I'm starting to buy into the whole Visiting Hours/Dr. Giggles angle on this one. These people are just fucked up.
    Last edited by manningmsj; January 26th, 2014 at 03:51 AM.
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  12. #87
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    The hospital has given up. SO,before 5 tomorrow she will be at rest.
    Her poor husband and mother have suffered so much.
    Icepik likes this.
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  13. #88
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    Taken off Life Support at 11:30am This Morning
    A brain-dead pregnant woman was taken off life support on Sunday, her family said, according to CNN.

    "The Muñoz and Machado families will now proceed with the somber task of laying Marlise Muñoz’s body to rest, and grieving over the great loss that has been suffered," the family said in a statement. "May Marlise Muñoz finally rest in peace, and her family find the strength to complete what has been an unbearably long and arduous journey."

    Life support was terminated at 11:30 AM on Sunday, according to WFAA.

    Earlier from the AP:

    DALLAS (AP) — A Texas hospital says it will follow a judge's order to remove life support from a pregnant, brain-dead woman.

    J.R. Labbe, a spokeswoman for John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth, issued a statement Sunday that said the hospital "will follow the court order" issued Friday in the case of Marlise Munoz.

    Judge R.H. Wallace gave the Fort Worth hospital until Monday at 5 p.m. to comply with his ruling to remove Munoz from life support, which her husband Erick Munoz says she would have wanted.

    She was 14 weeks pregnant when her husband found her unconscious Nov. 26, possibly due to a blood clot.

    The hospital says in the statement that it saw its role as "not to make nor contest law but to follow it."
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  14. #89
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Thank God.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  15. #90
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    I don't fault the hospital. I don't think they were a huge group of overzealous pro-lifers desperately trying to save a fetus. I think they were doing everything they can to make sure they were following this archaic law as it is written. Now, if they had appealed this judge's latest decision, my opinion of the hospital would vastly differ, of course. Hopefully some good can come out of this tragedy, and the law can be re-examined

    This is a serious question for the legal types. Could the family at the beginning have requested an abortion and then unplugged her? Just curious.

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