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Thread: Chicago to approve public high school for gay, lesbian and transgender teens

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    Elite Member Honey's Avatar
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    Default Chicago to approve public high school for gay, lesbian and transgender teens

    Chicago school officials plan to recommend opening a gay-friendly campus, citing studies that homosexual high school students have greater dropout rates than heterosexual teens.
    The School for Social Justice Pride Campus, if approved, would be the city's first school for gay, lesbian and transgender students, The Chicago Tribune reported.
    The final vote by the Board of Education is scheduled for Oct. 22.
    Chicago Public Schools head Arne Duncan plans to ask the board to give the green light to that and 17 other schools, according to the Tribune.
    "We want to create great new options for communities that have been traditionally underserved," he told the newspaper. "If you look at national studies, you see gay and lesbian students with high dropout rates ... I think there is a niche there we need to fill."
    The new campuses are expected to open in the fall of 2009 and 2010.
    Most of the 50 Chicago residents who attended a public hearing Wednesday night supported the gay and lesbian school, which will likely have up to 600 students, the Tribune reported.

    FOXNews.com - Chicago to Approve Public High School for Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Teens - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    We have one in NYC, and it's been a big success- The Harvey Milk School



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    Elite Member katerpillar's Avatar
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    Why not? Sounds like a good idea.

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    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    If gay people have fought for acceptance all this time, and want to be seen as equals, is segregation due to a sexual orientation really a step forward?

    When they graduate, they won't be able to build a world for themselves. Being gay is not a learning disability or special need. As much as I despise hatred and prejudice, the fact remains they have to learn to live in a world which will show them opposition. Hiding away is not going to prepare them for what real life will bring.



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    Elite Member katerpillar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    If gay people have fought for acceptance all this time, and want to be seen as equals, is segregation due to a sexual orientation really a step forward?

    When they graduate, they won't be able to build a world for themselves. Being gay is not a learning disability or special need. As much as I despise hatred and prejudice, the fact remains they have to learn to live in a world which will show them opposition. Hiding away is not going to prepare them for what real life will bring.
    Yeah, but getting bullied to the point of suicide or dropping out isn't going to help them terribly much, either.

    Seriously, try telling a scared, harassed or lonely teen to just tough things out... way easier said than done. At the moment, their only alternative to staying stuck in a school where they're miserable is to drop out. I think it's better that they have the option of a specialist school for LGBT kids than end up under-educated. Such a school would also be able to provide any specific support the students might need, too - like supporting a student whose homophobic parents kicked him or her out out of home, for example.

    If they have specialist schools/classes for teenage mothers, they certainly ought to have specialist schools for LGBT teens.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    They're kids...as young as 13 and 14 in freshman year......they need a safe place to go to school...


    when they're older they can fight their own battles, but for now they need a place to get an education without being threatened and assaulted



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    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    If gay people have fought for acceptance all this time, and want to be seen as equals, is segregation due to a sexual orientation really a step forward?

    When they graduate, they won't be able to build a world for themselves. Being gay is not a learning disability or special need. As much as I despise hatred and prejudice, the fact remains they have to learn to live in a world which will show them opposition. Hiding away is not going to prepare them for what real life will bring.
    Exactly! It seems segregating them just adds fuel to the Homophobes views, that they are somehow different. They need to work at stopping prejudice and bullying, not seperating them. Fat children get bullied terribly but your not gonna segregate them. Unfortunately bullying happens to a lot of people, but I don't think this is the answer.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    If gay people have fought for acceptance all this time, and want to be seen as equals, is segregation due to a sexual orientation really a step forward?

    When they graduate, they won't be able to build a world for themselves. Being gay is not a learning disability or special need. As much as I despise hatred and prejudice, the fact remains they have to learn to live in a world which will show them opposition. Hiding away is not going to prepare them for what real life will bring.
    Having a safe place to get an education so you aren't lynched is a good idea in my book. When society advances enough where gay kids aren't tied to fences and tortured to death there won't be a need.

    Gays are the last minority where it's still socially acceptable to kick the shit out em.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katerpillar View Post
    Yeah, but getting bullied to the point of suicide or dropping out isn't going to help them terribly much, either.

    Seriously, try telling a scared, harassed or lonely teen to just tough things out... way easier said than done. At the moment, their only alternative to staying stuck in a school where they're miserable is to drop out. I think it's better that they have the option of a specialist school for LGBT kids than end up under-educated. Such a school would also be able to provide any specific support the students might need, too - like supporting a student whose homophobic parents kicked him or her out out of home, for example.

    If they have specialist schools/classes for teenage mothers, they certainly ought to have specialist schools for LGBT teens.
    Children and teens are bullied for numerous reasons. Being gay is not the only one. Many people somehow managed successfully finish school and move on to higher learning after suffering through traumatic school experiences, especially during high school. At some point, those children won't be able to run. They will have to stand up and face real life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarzy View Post
    Exactly! It seems segregating them just adds fuel to the Homophobes views, that they are somehow different. They need to work at stopping prejudice and bullying, not seperating them. Fat children get bullied terribly but your not gonna segregate them. Unfortunately bullying happens to a lot of people, but I don't think this is the answer.
    Exactly. Every other child who has experienced psychological terror during school had to deal with it. That's life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Having a safe place to get an education so you aren't lynched is a good idea in my book. When society advances enough where gay kids aren't tied to fences and tortured to death there won't be a need.

    Gays are the last minority where it's still socially acceptable to kick the shit out em.
    Gays are the only group who have experienced violent attacks. Unless being gay is now a special need, there should be no special accommodations made.

    Gays fight for equal treatment, yet will jump at the chance to attend special schools based on sexual preference? I don't think so. Use the funds which would go to those schools to fund other areas, which will assist children who actually need special accommodations.

    Many groups face adversity. We deal with it. Either grow a thicker skin or succumb to the pressures presented by ignorance. If they can't handle what they face in high school, I feel for them when they venture into the harsh reality outside those walls.



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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Gays are the only group who have experienced violent attacks. Unless being gay is now a special need, there should be no special accommodations made.
    Pretty sure that gay kids get picked on, assaulted and hunted more than any other.

    Gays fight for equal treatment, yet will jump at the chance to attend special schools based on sexual preference?

    No, they arent jumping at the chance to attend a special school based on 'sexual preference. They're jumping at the chance to attend a school where they won't get their asses kicked 5 days a week. That such an asskicking is a result of homophobia is absolutely secondary, but it's causal.

    I don't think so. Use the funds which would go to those schools to fund other areas, which will assist children who actually need special accommodations.
    Go look at the suicide and dropout rates and get back to me.

    Many groups face adversity. We deal with it. Either grow a thicker skin or succumb to the pressures presented by ignorance. If they can't handle what they face in high school, I feel for them when they venture into the harsh reality outside those walls.
    Actually, adulthood for gays is much much easier. Why do you think gay kids find high school to be a torturous affair, and yet manage to carve themselves great careers when finally out of it?

    You can't grow a thicker skin to being tied to a fence and tortured to death. There's no high school gay posse you can call on for backup, unlike other minorities. Gays don't tend to travel in packs. Most try to hide to avoid getting their asses kicked, but a lot can't. A lot are also not physically able to defend themselves. What then?

    When your'e gay, let me know. Till then, you have no idea. None at all.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Pretty sure that gay kids get picked on, assaulted and hunted more than any other.
    Being pretty sure is not a fact. There were openly gay people in my high school and there were no hunts for them. Most of them were damn successful and well-liked, heading up teams, being on student council, etc. The children from poor families were the most terrorized. Should special schools be created for them as well?

    No, they arent jumping at the chance to attend a special school based on 'sexual preference. They're jumping at the chance to attend a school where they won't get their asses kicked 5 days a week. That such an asskicking is a result of homophobia is absolutely secondary, but it's causal.
    First, they can have their asses kicked outside of school. What will they do, go to school, then be escorted home, where they will spend the remainder of their time? Second, no one can hide from ignorance. The same morons giving them crap in school will definitely accost them on the street.


    Go look at the suicide and dropout rates and get back to me.
    I know the stats. Survival of the fittest comes into play here. Dig in your heels and get what you want. Tenacity is not dependent upon race or sexual preference. Weak is weak.

    Actually, adulthood for gays is much much easier. Why do you think gay kids find high school to be a torturous affair, and yet manage to carve themselves great careers when finally out of it?
    That can be said for many who finished their high schooling and moved on. They were able to choose whom they surrounded themselves with. Post high school has been much less difficult for those of us were ostracized, teased, and physically attacked. Gays weren't the only ones who had targets on their backs.

    You can't grow a thicker skin to being tied to a fence and tortured to death. There's no high school gay posse you can call on for backup, unlike other minorities. Gays don't tend to travel in packs. Most try to hide to avoid getting their asses kicked, but a lot can't. A lot are also not physically able to defend themselves. What then?
    That's right. Gays are the only group who faced physical attacks. Think not.

    Posse? What is this, the wild west? There were many people who traveled alone through high school and had no group to back them up.

    Being physically able to defend yourself is learned. After being jumped, I learned to kick ass with the best of them. Do explain why, as you pointed out, many gays are not able to defend themselves? They aren't physically incapable of acquiring the skills. Yes, there could be retaliatory attacks, but that comes with the territory.

    When your'e gay, let me know. Till then, you have no idea. None at all.
    That's akin to telling someone they have no right to speak on racism issues if they are not a minority.

    As if one has to be gay to understand the human condition. This isn't about homosexuality or heterosexuality. The foundation of the matter is being different from the social norm and how the individual deals with it. Some can't handle the pressure. Some can. Making excuses for those who can not is just that, making excuses.

    I feel for gays who have hard times in school. I wish all schools could be as tolerant as mine was in that situation. While the student body was tolerant of different sexualities, I assure you, other groups faced the wrath of the ignorant and we dealt with it accordingly. We didn't drop out or kill ourselves. When beatings became a part of the cycle of abuse, we learned defense and waited for the first idiot to attack after we did. When it happened, we dealt with it and sent a message loud and clear. We didn't run.



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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Being pretty sure is not a fact.
    Pretty sure it is, otherwise the suicide and dropout rate wouldn't be the highest.

    There were openly gay people in my high school and there were no hunts for them. Most of them were damn successful and well-liked, heading up teams, being on student council, etc. The children from poor families were the most terrorized. Should special schools be created for them as well?
    Well how nice that your high school was "evolved" enough to simply pick on the povs instead of the fags. Most aren't like that.


    First, they can have their asses kicked outside of school. What will they do, go to school, then be escorted home, where they will spend the remainder of their time? Second, no one can hide from ignorance. The same morons giving them crap in school will definitely accost them on the street.
    Yes they can, but high school is a closed environment, thus multiplying the abuse. Plus kids are retarded, adults somewhat less so. There are barely any kind of restrictions for kids when it comes to abusing each other, adults much more. Adults can get charged, kids (until 18) know they can get a way with a ton of shit.


    I know the stats.
    Seems not.

    Survival of the fittest comes into play here. Dig in your heels and get what you want. Tenacity is not dependent upon race or sexual preference. Weak is weak.
    Yes, it's lovely to think that way when not in the situation 24/7 and that includes AT HOME. A bit simplistic. What are you going to do, kick the shit out of your parents as well?

    That can be said for many who finished their high schooling and moved on. They were able to choose whom they surrounded themselves with. Post high school has been much less difficult for those of us were ostracized, teased, and physically attacked. Gays weren't the only ones who had targets on their backs.
    Yes it can, but i reiterate that gays tend to be the last acceptable minority to kick the shit out of, and unlike fat kids or nerds or whomever else, have no ability to CHANGE the very thing that they are targeted for. They can hide sometimes, but that's about it. Wtf is this, jealousy of the abused?

    That's right. Gays are the only group who faced physical attacks. Think not.
    Nobody has said that except you, stop repeating it. It's lame.

    Posse? What is this, the wild west? There were many people who traveled alone through high school and had no group to back them up.
    Yes posse. An identifiable group. The other minorities generally have their own ethnic group to draw on. White kids don't count because for the most part they're the dominant group. Social outcasts generally had 1 or 2 friends they could count on, and the ones that didn't had it just as hard as the gay kids but could probably count on at least one person saying "hey, leave them alone". Who defends a fag? Nobody.

    Being physically able to defend yourself is learned. After being jumped, I learned to kick ass with the best of them. Do explain why, as you pointed out, many gays are not able to defend themselves? They aren't physically incapable of acquiring the skills. Yes, there could be retaliatory attacks, but that comes with the territory.
    Picture it: 130 lbs of skinny homo attempting to fight off half a football team. I'm sorry, all the martial arts training on the planet will not increase your baseline strength. You might get in a couple shots before you're crushed.

    Been there, done that. It's a physical impossibility for some.

    That's akin to telling someone they have no right to speak on racism issues if they are not a minority.
    No, it's akin to telling someone outside of the sphere of experience that their position is untenable due to direct lack of said experience.

    It's like me talking about what it's like to be black as a white guy.

    As if one has to be gay to understand the human condition. This isn't about homosexuality or heterosexuality. The foundation of the matter is being different from the social norm and how the individual deals with it. Some can't handle the pressure. Some can. Making excuses for those who can not is just that, making excuses.
    Being hunted day after day for somethign you can't change with the real threat of serious physical violence is not 'making excuses'. It's like trying to reason with a lynch mob. A bit hard to do when you're hanging from a tree.

    I feel for gays who have hard times in school. I wish all schools could be as tolerant as mine was in that situation. While the student body was tolerant of different sexualities, I assure you, other groups faced the wrath of the ignorant and we dealt with it accordingly. We didn't drop out or kill ourselves. When beatings became a part of the cycle of abuse, we learned defense and waited for the first idiot to attack after we did. When it happened, we dealt with it and sent a message loud and clear. We didn't run.
    We? Who's We? Are you a group now? Are you speaking on behalf of a group?
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    ^^This is simple. We will not agree on this situation.

    Oh, throwing insults now are we? Your using an isolated incident that happened ten years ago is pathetic. I don't care who you are. Someone is going to hate you. Some will jeopardize your safety, cause emotional upheaval, and make life unbearable. How you deal with it is your choice.

    Using hanging from a tree is not a good example. You do realize lynchings of blacks and other minorities is still alive and well in certain areas? They aren't hanging or killing people because they are gay, just because they are different races or religions.

    You accuse me of being casual in my concern of gay issues because I am not gay. If this were about a special school for a racial minority group, would you be so adamantly supportive?

    The "we" ,you so facetiously refer to, would be those who were treated as outcasts and had turbulent school experiences. There is not only one outcast per school usually.

    Of course I would not know what it is like to experience ignorance 24/7. Unlike gays, there are people who wear their differences on the outside every second of their lives.

    Of course no one could beat twelve large men in a fight alone; however, being 130 pounds does not preclude someone from taking out one, two, or even three people. There are girls, who obviously have a lower core strength than a man of similar size and health, who can take down larger man. Excluding weapons use and being outnumbered, a skinny homo, as you say, has the same odds in a one on one or two on one fight, unless he just has no self defense skills whatsoever, which is his own fault. Barring a physical disability, learning combat skills is up to the individual.

    If gay students would like a school to call their own, I have no problem with that, at all. It should not be a public school, nor should it be funded by taxpayers. If the school were to be exclusively for gays, controversy would abound. I would never support a public school which banned gays. Being gay is not a special need. Any group who is targeted for discrimination could essentially ask school districts for their own schools, citing the special accommodations made for gay students. The choice would be to turn down those requests or face discrimination lawsuits.

    In cases such as this, the long-term repercussions must be evaluated as well. Create a private school which gay students may opt to attend. I will not support discrimination in any form, even if it benefits a group which sees hard time. Discrimination always benefits someone. Even if I am in that group who gains, it is still wrong and I won't participate or support it.



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    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Where did you all go to high school?! I'm from the Midwest and we had several gay teenagers at our school who were open and they weren't bullied, they actually were quite popular. One of them was a lesbian who was up for Homecoming Queen. I've never heard anything to the extent of what I am hearing here, where did you all grow up and was this quite some time ago that you attended high school? If you want to know who was severely bullied, I wish you could have asked the "fat" girl who was in my geography class sophomore year. Unfortunately, she committed suicide that year. Its a far cry to say that all gay teens are "lynched" or forced to deny who they are. Harassment happens all the time to most kids, I know a ton of people who were bullied as kids and none of them are gay. Not saying it doesn't happen, but man you would think from this conversation that gays are bullied more than any other social group. Thats simply not true. I agree with everything Revelling said in this thread. I'm sorry for the gay kids that have been bullied, truly I am. I'm sad for all kids who are bullied, period. But I do not believe this is the answer.
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    Super Moderator NoDayButToday's Avatar
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    I grew up in the midwest too-specifically the Chicago area, graduated from HS in 2003, and my gay friends were tortured mercilessly. One of them almost didn't graduate because he kept skipping gym so that he could avoid the locker room which he always said was the worst part of his whole day. The only trans student in the school eventually dropped out and got his GED. Daily torture for him too. My sister was forced to transfer high schools to a private arts high school that was basically functioning as the safe haven for the gay students who were harassed too much at their public high schools.

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