Longer school days proposed...

[Mr. Authority]

U.S. education officials are increasingly supporting a proposal to expand the length of the average school day in schools struggling to meet expectations.

With recent test results showing that more than 10,000 U.S. schools will likely fall below standards this year, education officials in states like Massachusetts have already started a move toward longer school days, the New York Times reported Monday.

Massachusetts Gov. Deval L. Patrick recently allocated $6.5 million for the education effort and 84 schools in the region have expressed interest in the move.

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., has proposed an annual $50 million No Child Left Behind effort that would train additional teachers for increased school hours.

But opponents of the movement maintain that the increased school time would only prove effective if focused on active learning.

Critics told the Times such active learning would prove daunting given limited education funding and the added strain placed upon already overworked U.S. teachers.

http://news.webindia123.com/news/Art...27/621368.html

I honestly think that teachers should be trained to do better quality work with the hours they already have, plus a raise in their wages because they don't get paid enough for the crap they deal with. What do you all think?

[xoxo]

i agree mr. authority, more time in school seems like it would be more difficult for students/teachers...

[McJag]

Hideous idea. Why not pay higher salaries to teacher, getting more teachers and having smaller classrooms? And give up the "no child left behind" idea before we have a whole generation of little Georges?
I don't know of a single teacher that thinks that idea comes even close to working!

[sputnik]

how long is the average school day in the US?

[A*O]

I don't think it would be a bad thing for school hours to match office hours (9-5) provided the extra time was used productively, eg, sport, music, remedial assistance, etc. I know it would be a Godsend to working parents. Teachers should obviously be rewarded financially (although they still get pretty good perks like 12 weeks vacation per year).

In Australia the usual school hours are 8.30am to 3.30pm. We have a 4-term (semester) system of 4 x 10-week terms with no mid-term break which works really well. The academic year starts in the new calendar year.

Term 1 (Autumn) = Feb-Easter
Term 2 (Winter) = Easter-July
Term 3 (Spring) = July-October
Term 4 (Summer) = October-Christmas

[sputnik]

i've been in different systems. when i was a kid in canada the hours were 8 to 3:30 i think, then in geneva i had an odd system in primary and middle school, 7:55 to 3:50 except there was no school on wednesday but there was school on saturday until 11:30. then they replaced the saturday with wednesday morning and i think it's still like that.
high school also in switzerland but very weird hours, 8:15 to 4:50 every day but wednesday when it was only until 11:30.
primary school wasn't particularly challenging but high school was tough and the hours long and you took a lot of subjects at the same time.

[darksithbunny]

I so hated the way the public schools do everything that my kids go private. I pay out the ass and I have to drive them but it is worth it. The public schools where I live have the worst teachers I have ever seen. And everytime you turn around, they are having a bullshit fundraiser. Why don't they just ask parents to give whatever it is they need? The over crowding here is unreal. Every public school has 5-7 trailers and some of these are brand new schools!

[UndercoverGator]

Lengthening the school day to standard office hours wouldn't neccessarily be a bad thing but I'm not sure it would work. There's just so much wrong with the NCLB act.

Where to start. Anytime you have a system that is teaching only to standardized test scores, like the NCLB, you are finding kids without a broad range of knowledge, who are being taught only the materials found in the standardized tests. This is no different than training rats to run a maze in hopes of a cube of cheese and it certainly doesn't qualify anyone to be considered 'educated' or to have enough general knowledge to cope with college. There does need to be some measurement of student ability and accountability for schools that are failing to educate the majority of students.

Some of the problems with trying to educate kids really involves the parents and there's not a lot that the school or the government can do if the family is a bunch of scumwads that don't support anything to do with their kids or the type of self involved parents that don't allow any criticism of their kids, protecting their egos from anything negative. The educators are directly bumping up against attitudes towards education, ingrained habits and home based learning choices instilled by family. Ask PB about this, I'm sure she can vouch for it.

For about eight weeks I worked as a school social worker at a private school in my area and it was hell, I got to see first hand some of the ways that the America education system is truly screwed up, including the two I just mentioned. The clearest example of the negative influence of family was seen during an HBO special "Lalee's Kin" about the poorest school system in Mississippi that has the worst test scores in the entire state. These are kids who cannot afford a pack of pencils or notebook paper much less other school supplies. In the documentary there were kids showing up that didn't even have names! What chance to kids like that, coming from homes where the parents are uneducated and screwed up, have before you add in standardized testing? None. NCLB doesn't benefit them or anyone else, it creates a 'Big Brother' scenario for education.

It pits the schools against the parents in matters of absentism even in regards to illnesses and sends many kids and parents into the cold arms of CPS and the court system, further wasting tax dollars and gumming up the system instead of trying to work with families having issues.

But one of the biggest failings of NCLB is that it reduces the pool of eligible teachers down even further by putting stringent restrictions on who can and cannot teach. Before NCLB anyone with a degree and a few education classes who could pass the National Teachers Exam could teach in the US. One such teacher I knew, my son's middle school math teacher, came to teaching that way as a second career after he retired from the Marines. He brought his years of life/work experiences to the classroom and his students consistently had the highest math scores in the county. Excellent teacher who used creative methods to teach kids very successfully. Under the NCLB rules he is completely ineligable to teach anyone. Which is really ashamed because it elimates anyone who wants to teach after they retire because it says that you must have an undergrad degree in education and either have or be working towards a masters in education. It keeps many very fine individuals who love to teach out of the classroom. How can that be beneficial?

I could go on and on ontop of my soap box with a million reasons why NCLB is a poor program but I can feel my blood pressure starting to climb.

[msdeb]

my daughter, who is in 8th, goes from 9-3:30pm ... there are after school programs (tutoring, homework club, sports) and i think its a great day. school is not overwhelming, she can get extra help if she needs it, or participate in sports. must be doing something right, she's honor roll.

[Lobelia]

I know there's a popular bandwagon that's been going round for years in the US, regarding raising teachers' salaries. I have yet to jump on that bandwagon. Instead of focusing on paying teachers more, I think priority should be given to increasing their support in disciplinary matters, so that 1) teachers' frustration is lowered & 2) significant class time isn't spent trying to get heathens to act right. Do everything possible to decrease bureaucracy & excess frustration, so that teachers can just teach. What we have are fed up burnt-out people, & it's tempting to throw money at them to make them feel better. That just costs everybody more, and doesn't fix the problem.

I agree with Gator regarding NCLB for all the reasons she listed, to include one of my own. The act doesn't seem to explain what we're supposed to do with kids who just aren't smart. Guess what folks, there's lots of them out there. And you can keep them at school until 10:00 pm every day if you want, but it won't make them any smarter.

Also, if you lengthen the school day, we all know what will happen. Everybody will want more money.

[A*O]

Now Lobelia - You are going to crush their self-esteem and well-earned sense of entitlement if you dare suggest they aren't the smartest, bestest kid in the whole, wide world! And if a parent does have an obvious doofus for a child there's ALWAYS a medical explanation and/or it's someone else's fault. Remember when dyslexia was so 'fashionable' a few years ago? Now it's ADHD. Both are genuine conditions, but both are useful labels for parents to use instead of facing the TFO that Jr basically isn't very bright.

[Lobelia]

Hell's bells, you're right. Let me zip on down to the trophy store & order trophies & participation ribbons for all! All children can do ANYTHING they want! I mean, don't let a 75 IQ get in the way of your plan to be a veterinarian...

ETA: When you have a President who isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, far be it for him to factor stupidity into his Master Plan.

[DevilDoll2025]

what the hell? My brother goes to a public school and he learns more at home than at school, he already goes to school from 7:30 - 4:00 everyday. On a different note i worked at a high school last year and the hours were too long, ungratefull students who wasted my time as well as theirs because they didjn't want to learn, stupid teachers and principals made me sooo angry and my pay was almost minimum wage. My mom works with small children and the students are in there for too long(7:30- 4:00), parents are rude and don't want to work with their children, the support teacher is a stupid useless b**ch, and there is already too much paper work. This had better not happen because there is already too much stress and time spent at the school. Sometimes I don't even get to see my mother because she is spending so much of her time at school doing someone else's fucking job, talking with parent's and getting all the paperwork,. lessons and activities ready. In fact today we had to make an unessesary trip to get stuff for her class because her dumb ass boss can't do anything at all. sorry to rant but anything to do with school gets me angry.

[LastLook]

I think the major problem is we have politicians who are wholly unqualified to be making decisions regarding what's best for the development of a young brain doing just that. They cut every right-brain program aimed at creative thinking/problem solving to near-starvation (if not out out existence entirely) then wonder why a large number of children who aren't predominantly left-brained, as the current program is geared, can't effectively learn. It's utterly ridiculous. Perhaps they should allow people who actually know what they are doing (and employ a variety of approaches to learning, not just those that satisfy an end-of-the-year test) make such decisions. Never mind, I guess I'm living in la-la land. I really wish this would happen, though.

[Mr. Authority]

Thanks for that list of problems with the NCLB act Gator. I could'nt have put any better myself.

I'm not really to famillar with what teachers go through in terms of paperwork but when i was in HS, I could see their frustration. Not only do they have to put up with stupid ass kids, they also have to get their crap toghether for the class and most of the time they do it on their time (alot of teachers at my school complained about budget cuts). Longer school hours will not make education any better, the school districts in the country need to stop restircting good teachers from teaching, let voluntary fund-drives fund some of the school activites, and try to get the parents involved.