Results 1 to 11 of 11
Like Tree9Likes
  • 1 Post By czb
  • 1 Post By MohandasKGanja
  • 1 Post By Beeyotch
  • 5 Post By MohandasKGanja
  • 1 Post By czb

Thread: Affluenza or incompetence by the Italian police force?

  1. #1
    czb
    czb is offline
    Elite Member czb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    left coast
    Posts
    16,441

    Default Affluenza or incompetence by the Italian police force?

    local news that is going viral:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/a...judge-n1035876

    July 29, 2019, 1:27 PM PDT
    By Associated Press
    ROME One of two American teenagers jailed in Rome for allegedly slaying a police officer said he stabbed the plainclothes officer because he feared he was being strangled, according to a judge's ruling obtained by The Associated Press on Monday.
    Carabinieri paramilitary police Vice Brigadier Mario Cerciello Rega was stabbed 11 times and collapsed, bleeding profusely, on a street near the teens' hotel on Friday, after he and a fellow plainclothes officer confronted the Americans as part of an investigation into a cocaine deal the two were allegedly involved in. He died shortly afterward at a hospital.

    Carabinieri Officer Mario Rega was stabbed two death in Rome on July 26, 2019.Italian Carabinieri via APJudge Chiara Gallo wrote in her ruling upholding the jailing of the two California residents that 19-year-old Finnegan Lee Elder told authorities he stabbed Cerciello Rega after he felt pressure on his neck.





    But, the judge noted, Elder didn't have any marks on his neck indicating an attempted strangulation.
    Gallo said the young man's friend and travel companion, 18-year-old Gabriel Christian Natale-Hjorth, told investigators he wasn't aware of the stabbing until Elder woke him up at their hotel hours later and told them he had "used a knife" and then washed it.
    Investigators said Saturday both teens had admitted their roles in Cerciello Rega's death. Under Italian law, anyone who participated in a slaying can face murder charges.
    In her ruling, issued Saturday, the judge wrote that Elder admitted during interrogation by prosecutors that he stabbed the officer "several times" with a knife described as a military-style attack model with a 7-inch-long (18-centimeter) blade. She said Elder told investigators he didn't realize the two men were police officers and believed they were men sent by an Italian man whose knapsack they had stolen a few hours earlier.




    That man, identified as Sergio Brugiatelli, told investigators that two youths with American accents approached him in Rome's Trastevere nightlife district asking if he had 80 euros ($90) worth of cocaine to sell, according to the judge's order. Brugiatelli said he didn't, but accompanied one of the teens, a blond he later identified as Natale-Hjorth, to a dealer in the neighborhood. Brugiatelli said the other teen, whom he later identified as Elder, sat waiting on a bench where Brugiatelli had left his bag with a cellphone
    According to Brugiatelli, the "blond youth" gave the dealer money for the drugs, but at the sight of approaching police officers, everyone scattered. He later told investigators that when he returned to the bench a friend told him that Elder had run off with his bag.
    Brugiatelli said he dialed his cellphone number and one of the teens answered and demanded he bring 80 or 100 euros plus a gram of cocaine to a street near their hotel if he wanted the bag back. After police were informed of the extortion attempt, Cerciello Rega and his partner, Andrea Varriale, were sent to the rendezvous point, the judge's order said.






    American suspects in Rome murder case.Polizia di StatoThe judge noted that the teens claimed the officers didn't show identification. But, she said, Varriale told investigators both officers showed their badges and identified themselves as police. "But the pair, even before we could carry out any kind of check attacked us physically," she quoted Varriale as telling investigators.




    Varriale told investigators that Cerciello Rega yelled as he was struggling with Elder, "Stop, we're Carabinieri. Enough." He said Natale-Hjorth kicked, scratched and punched him to break away, then both teens fled. As he watched them run Varriale said he saw his partner was bleeding profusely from his left side, near the chest. "Before falling to the ground, he told me, 'They stabbed me,'" the judge quoted Varriale as saying.
    Cerciello Rega's was eulogized Monday as a hero at a funeral held in his hometown, Somma Vesuviana, in the same church where the 35-year-old officer had been married six weeks earlier.






    Italy's military chaplain, Archbishop Santo Marciano, said in his eulogy that Cerciello Rega lived and died to safeguard others' lives, adding that the officer was known for warmly greeting residents of the neighborhood in historic Rome. He spent his off-duty hours as a volunteer dishing out hot meals to the homeless in Rome's main station and accompanied ailing faithful to religious shrines, including in Lourdes, France, the archbishop said.
    Meanwhile, at the San Francisco home of Elder's father, a sign reading "Please respect family's privacy do not disturb" hung on a gate Monday in front of the house. When a reporter rang the doorbell, a man wearing a Giants baseball cap appeared behind the gate and asked, "Do I know you?" and then pointed to the sign and went back into the house.




    In a statement, the Elder family said they had been informed Monday that a U.S. government official in Rome had visited with Elder. "We continue to gather facts about his case through his legal representatives," the family said.
    Police in Mill Valley, California, where the suspects went to high school and had lived for a time, said neither teen had an arrest record or turned up in reports of family domestic violence.




    Related


    News



    Meanwhile, police and prosecutors were investigating what was described as the illegal blindfolding of Natale-Hjorth after Italian newspapers published a photo Sunday of the teen with what appeared to be a scarf covering his eyes and his hands handcuffed behind his back as he sat in a chair at a police station.




    Rome Provincial Cmdr. Francesco Gargaro told AP the blindfold was illegal and lasted only a few minutes, before the young man was brought to another room for interrogation. The officer who put the blindfold on was being transferred to other duties, while police investigated who took and distributed the photo, authorities said.
    Rome's prosecutor general, Giovanni Salvi, said in a statement that a lawyer was present during the teens' interrogation by prosecutors, which was recorded and transcribed and that neither suspect was blindfolded or handcuffed while they were questioned.
    On Monday, Natale-Hjorth's lawyer, Emiliano Sisinni, said his client hadn't said anything about being blindfolded to a fellow attorney assisting with his defense who was present during the interrogation. Sisinni said he became aware of the blindfold only after seeing the photo in the Italian media.
    Italian Premier Giuseppe Conte said that while "there is no doubt that the victim of this tragedy is our Mario," he praised the Italian police for transferring the officer who put the blindfold on Natale-Hjorth.




    Treating a suspect that way "doesn't reflect our principles and juridical values," said Conte, who is a lawyer. He also decried that the photo was circulated on social media.


    by Taboolaby Taboola

    Sponsored Stories

  2. #2
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    fellow traveller
    Posts
    56,274

    Default

    I saw the headline on the bbc but to be honest I kind of assumed the Italian police had fucked up somehow but it actually sounds like these two little shits are on some kind of crime spree European vacation.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  3. #3
    czb
    czb is offline
    Elite Member czb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    left coast
    Posts
    16,441

    Default

    yeah, they sound like assholes but i would not be surprised if the italian police did something unscrupulous.

    of course, since these kids are local, all the people in the hood are claiming these kids are heinous and have been evil since 8th grade. i could c/p the posts from ND but it's probably illegal.
    sputnik likes this.

  4. #4
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever my kids are
    Posts
    31,733

    Default

    This is not the Amanda Knox case. Their guilt is incontestable. All they have left now is some kind of perverse claim to self defense. And think about it - a guy supposedly grabs you by the neck, and you stab him in the torso 11 times with a 7-inch knife? Italian law prohibits carrying a knife on you with a blade more than 4 cm (1.6 inches).

    Then, you go back to the hotel, clean the weapon and hide it in the ceiling?One news site said that one of these kids had beaten another kid in HS so badly that he had permanent brain damage.

    I don't think there is a story in the world that these guys could come up with that is going to get them out of this.
    Jadestone likes this.

  5. #5
    czb
    czb is offline
    Elite Member czb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    left coast
    Posts
    16,441

    Default

    ok - i heard locally that the one kid beat another kid in 8th grade. heard it was bad but didn't hear about the brain damage.

  6. #6
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever my kids are
    Posts
    31,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by czb View Post
    ok - i heard locally that the one kid beat another kid in 8th grade. heard it was bad but didn't hear about the brain damage.
    Luckily, it's not as bad as I thought:

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/ar...a-14206243.php

    Elder, who was 16 years old at the time of the incident, struck another 16-year-old student in the wooded park near Sloat Boulevard and 19th Avenue that’s known as a nighttime gathering spot for teens, sources said.
    The victim struck his head and was hospitalized with “life-threatening injuries,” police told The Chronicle at the time. The victim experienced a long recovery and has since graduated from high school and is attending college. He could not be reached for comment.
    Elder turned himself in after the 2016 incident and was among around a dozen players suspended for the final game of the season at Kezar Stadium, according to sources and an interview that year with the school’s director of athletics.
    Officials at Sacred Heart did not reply to messages from The Chronicle. The school did not comment on the incident at the time and it’s not clear Elder faced discipline before he began attending Tamalpais High.
    Elder was arrested on suspicion of battery involving serious bodily injury and his case was adjudicated in juvenile court, sources said. Sources said the court found that he committed a felony offense in the incident but it’s not clear what punishment he faced. The sources spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the case.
    The San Francisco district attorney’s office said it was unable to comment on juvenile cases. San Francisco police also declined to comment.

    Sean Elder, Finnegan Elder’s uncle, who is acting as a family spokesman, told The Chronicle that the incident was part of “a mutual pre-agreed upon fight, which many football team members knew about and egged on.”
    “I've known Finn for his entire life and have never seen him be violent, or even lose his temper,” Sean Elder said. He added that the school did not discipline his nephew. He said the teen transferred to Tamalpais High after his father moved to Mill Valley.



  7. #7
    czb
    czb is offline
    Elite Member czb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    left coast
    Posts
    16,441

    Default

    ah. interesting. i know the mill valley PD put out a statement that they had no history of any kind of DV or assault for either of these boys. but if the assault happened in SF before elder enrolled at Tam (the HS in mill valley), then it is likely no reports were made to the city of mill valley.

    all i know is that ND is on fire with locals talking about this family. the posts are torn between

    1. leave the families alone
    2. mill valley is a drug haven with lax parenting
    3. these 2 kids were always bad seeds

    oy. the thread devoted to these 2 has hundreds of posts.

  8. #8
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    30,143

    Default

    I could see 2 and 3 being the case. Good luck with number 1 though.
    Jadestone likes this.

  9. #9
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever my kids are
    Posts
    31,733

    Default

    You don't 1) make a drug deal in Europe, 2) steal a drug dealer/emissary's briefcase and hold it hostage, and 3) kill someone instinctively by stabbing them eight+ times in the torso with a 4) highly illegal knife unless you were a little *sshole in the first place.

  10. #10
    czb
    czb is offline
    Elite Member czb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    left coast
    Posts
    16,441

    Default

    oh, for sure, these two were assholes. the daily beast had an interesting take on it. however, the ND posts are just pissed that tv film crews have been stalking tam HS since the story broke. and the HS is not really in the story at all. i have access to that ND thread and the lead tv reporter for the news crew got in the middle of the neighbors fight. omg. it was hilarious!
    MohandasKGanja likes this.

  11. #11
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Beyond Caring, then hang a left.
    Posts
    45,541

    Default

    Here we go...
    (CNN)One of two American teenagers accused of murdering an Italian police officerclaims the "facts" of his case have been "unfairly misrepresented" by the media, according to a statement from his family's attorney.
    Father of US teen accused of killing Italian police officer hopes video will show 'what actually happened'

    Finnegan Lee Elder, 19, was arrested in Rome in July alongside 18-year-old Gabriel Natale Hjorth, on suspicion of murdering Carabinieri officer Mario Cerciello Rega. Rega was stabbed eight times as he attempted to recover a stolen backpack from the teens, police say.
    Elder's family sent a statement to CNN through their attorney Craig Peters, after visiting him in prison Friday. "Finn is trying to stay hopeful but has suffered from severe depression since the incident. While in prison he has seen the way the media has portrayed him and the circumstances of the case & it has been difficult to hear the facts unfairly misrepresented," the statement read.


    "The family hopes that the truth will come out soon, so that everyone involved can start the healing process," it continued.
    Italian police officer Mario Cerciello Rega was stabbed to death in Rome following a botched drug deal.
    In a subsequent statement, the Elders' attorneys said, "We have come to the end of the window in which the prosecution can gather reliable evidence (a month and half after the incident). It now appears that the prosecution has a case of what happened at the scene built on the statements of a declared liar, a drug pusher and a drunk."
    "On the other hand, the boys' version of what happened that night has gained support from the objective incident and has become the only version that makes sense," the statement concluded.
    According to police, Elder and Hjorth, both from San Francisco, approached Sergio Brugiatelli and a friend in Rome's Piazza Trilussa on July 25, around 11:30 p.m, looking for 80 euros worth of cocaine.
    CCTV of two American teens allegedly involved in the murder of Italian policeman Mario Cerciello Rega on Friday 26 July.
    Brugiatelli agreed to go to meet a dealer with Hjorth, while Elder and the friend waited with Brugiatelli's bike and backpack. After Hjorth exchanged money for a roll of foil paper, Brugiatelli spotted two people he recognized as police, and he and Hjorth ran in different directions.
    When Brugiatelli returned to the square, Elder had left with his backpack which contained his phone, Brugiatelli said. After calling his phone, a foreign voice answered and demanded a gram of cocaine and 100 euros for the return of his backpack. He called the police, and they agreed on an undercover meeting with Hjorth and Elder to make the exchange.
    At around 2:48 a.m. on July 26, the teens, Brugiatelli and plain clothes police officers Rega and Andrea Varriale met near the Meridien Hotel. When Rega and Varriale identified themselves as police, a brawl broke out, during which Rega was stabbed.
    Police allege that both Elder and Hjorth confessed to taking part in the assault, with Elder confessing to killing Rega.
    CNN's Madeline Holcombe and Jennifer Hauser contributed to this report.


    Now, the *real* victims....


    Widow of Italian police officer bids painful goodbye as US teens charged in his death declared 'dangerous' by judge
    By Bill Hutchinson,Ian Pannell,Phoebe NatansonJul 29, 2019, 5:36 PM ET
    Dressed in black and wearing the diamond wedding ring her husband slipped on her finger a little over a month ago, the widow of slain Italian police Officer Mario Cerciello Rega moved mourners to tears on Monday, offering a painful goodbye to her husband of just 43 days in the same church they were married in.
    Rosa Maria Rega had celebrated the happiest day of her life on June 19 when she and her husband recited their marriage vows at the Santa Croce di Santa Maria del Corso church in Somma Vesuviana near Naples.


    But on Monday, she endured the saddest day of her life as she read a piece at her husband's funeral titled, "Being the wife of a Carabiniere."
    Just feet from her sat a casket bearing the body of her husband, a beloved member of Italy's famed Carabiniere paramilitary police force, who died on Friday after being stabbed 11 times on a street corner in Rome during an alleged confrontation with two California teenagers, both now charged with his murder.

    A photograph of Carabinieri officer Mario Cerciello Rega is carried during his funeral in his hometown of Somma Vesuviana in southern Italy, July 29, 2019. Two american teenagers were jailed as authorities investigate their alleged role in the fatal stabbing of the Italian police officer on a street near their hotel.
    His death occurred just days after he returned to duty from his honeymoon in Madagascar.


    Deputy Brigadier Cerciello Rega's wooden casket was wrapped in an Italian flag. His Carabiniere uniform cap and sword were placed atop the casket, along with photos of him and his newlywed wife smiling.
    At the foot of the casket stood a blown-up photo of the 35-year-old officer wearing his dress uniform and medals of honor he had been bestowed during his career on his chest.



    "If we all are able to learn a sense of the State and of common good from men like Mario, Italy will rise up," Monsignor Santo Marciano told the mourners who packed the church and thousands more who stood outside listening to the service on loudspeakers or watching a broadcast of the funeral on national TV.
    Among those attending the funeral were two of Italy's deputy prime ministers, Luigi Di Maio and Matteo Salvini. On Sunday, Italy's prime minister, Giuseppe Conte, joined thousands of people who gathered at a chapel in central Rome to honor Cerciello Rega as his body lay in repose.
    Conte called the officer's death a "deep wound for the State.”

    Carabinieri officer Mario Cerciello Rega's wife, Rosa Maria, right, follows the coffin containing the body of her husband during his funeral in his hometown of Somma Vesuviana, near Naples, Italy, July 29, 2019. Two American teenagers were jailed in Rome as authorities investigate their alleged roles in the fatal stabbing of the Italian police officer on a street near their hotel.
    Gen. Giovanni Nistri, commander of the Carabiniere force, spoke at Cerciello Rega's funeral, telling mourners that the officer died to "protect the rights of everyone, including those of an arrested person."
    "Together we asked for respect for all the other Carabiniere who do the same job," Nistri said.
    Cerciello Rega's colleagues served as pallbearers, hoisting his casket on their shoulders to carry him in and out of the church to loud applause from those who came to pay respect.
    "We remembered Mario in tears, all the lovely things, the moments spent together," Somma Vesuviana Mayor Salvatore Di Sarno told reporters outside the church. "But also the tragedy, a terrible affair which cannot go unpunished."
    Finnegan Lee Elder, 19, and Gabriel Christian Natale-Hjorth, 18, both of Northern California, remain in jail on suspicion of murder.
    The killing unfolded about 3 a.m. Friday in Rome after police say Elder and Natale-Hjorth were allegedly involved in a botched street drug deal.
    Elder and Natale-Hjorth, both graduates of Tamalpais High School in the San Francisco suburb of Mill Valley, were allegedly trying to buy 80 euros, or about $90, worth of drugs before the slaying, but were sold a fake substance, a police spokesman told ABC News. They then allegedly robbed a man who directed them to the drug dealer who ripped them off, taking his backpack and demanding he pay them 100 euros and a gram of cocaine to get it back, police said.

    The coffin containing the body of Carabinieri's officer Mario Cerciello Rega is carried to his funeral in his hometown of Somma Vesuviana, near Naples, Italy, July 29, 2019.
    The victim later called his cell phone, which the suspects also stole and arranged to meet to get his backpack back, police said. Unbeknownst to the suspects, the victim had called the police to report he was being extorted, and Cerciello Rega and his partner, Andrea Varriale, were listening in on the phone call when the victim arranged a rendezvous with the suspects, according to a court document leaked to media outlets and obtained by ABC News.
    Cerceillo Rega and Varriale went to meet the suspects, according to the document.
    ‘’We got closer and said we are Carabiniere security force, waving at the same time our police ID cards," Variale told investigators, according to the document. "Before we were even able to proceed to any kind of check, we were physically attacked in order to prevent us from blocking them."
    Variale described a fight that broke out as "frenzied, very fast and violent," according to the document.
    "I was attacked by the man with the black hoodie that struggled, kicking, punching and scratching me to get himself free from my hold," Variale said in his statement, referring to Natale-Hjorth. "Next to me, Cerciello Rega was fighting with the other man and I remember him screaming: 'Stop,basta, we are Carabiniere.'
    "After a few moments, I saw the two men running away and I noticed Cerciello bleeding abundantly from his chest," he continued, according to the document. "Before falling on the ground he said: 'They stabbed me.'"
    During the four-minute encounter Elder allegedly stabbed Cerciello Rega repeatedly with a 7-inch fix-blade combat knife, according to the document.
    The suspects were allegedly captured on security video running from the murder scene, but were tracked down to their hotel room about a block away, police said. Investigators found the knife believed to have been used in the killing and bloody clothes hidden in the ceiling of the teenagers' hotel room, police said.

    Gabriel Christian Natale Hjorth, right, and Finnegan Lee Elder, sit in their hotel room in Rome.
    While under interrogation, Elder and Natale-Hjorth both confessed to their involvement in the homicide when "faced with overwhelming evidence," according to the Provincial Command of Rome.
    Elder claimed he allegedly stabbed Ceriello Rega in self-defense, telling investigators he "feared for his life," according to the court document.
    Investigators, according to the court document, concluded that "it's clear that the perpetrator of the stabbing" was Elder.
    "It's also clear -- from the number of stabs, the body parts chosen and the kind of weapon -- that the murder was carried out voluntarily," according to the document. "The attempt to present it as a self-defense act is not compatible with the facts."

    A judge hearing the case refused a request to release Elder and Natale-Hjorth while the investigation continues, saying, "There's a danger of their repeating the same kind of crime" and citing the suspects' "complete lake of awareness regarding the gravity of their actions."
    "Let's not forget that both men were looking for drugs that night, and both admitted to having drunk alcohol," the judge said, according to the court document. "These circumstances, along with their behavior, are a sign of a total absence of self-control of critical capacity that points to their high degree of danger to society."

    In a statement released over the weekend, Elder's parents, who plan to travel to Rome, expressed "our deepest condolences" to Cerciello Rega's loved ones, saying they "are shocked and dismayed at the events that have been reported."
    "As any parents would be, we are deeply concerned for our son and are heartened by the expressions of sympathy and support from our friends and neighbors," the parents' statement reads.
    Elder's court-appointed attorney, Francesco Codini, told ABC News that Elder's family is working with the U.S. Consulate to hire a new lawyer for their son.
    He said he spoke to Elder in jail Monday morning and said his client was "decidedly better" than when he first saw him on Saturday, when he seemed to be in a state of shock.
    Defense attorney Emiliano Sisinni would only confirm to ABC News that he is representing Natale-Hjorth and was too busy Monday to answer further questions.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. detective frank drebin, police force
    By frank drebin in forum New Members
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: March 26th, 2011, 09:11 PM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: April 29th, 2010, 05:49 PM
  3. Lesbian Air Force sgt. discharged after police tell military
    By celeb_2006 in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: March 13th, 2010, 05:54 PM
  4. Replies: 21
    Last Post: March 3rd, 2010, 10:21 PM
  5. Iranian police use force to break up protest
    By kingcap72 in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 22nd, 2009, 05:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •