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Thread: Utah passes 'fetal pain' abortion law requiring anesthesia

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    Elite Member OrangeSlice's Avatar
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    Default Utah passes 'fetal pain' abortion law requiring anesthesia

    WTF year are we living in again? How is this constitutional?


    Utah passes 'fetal pain' abortion law requiring anesthesia - CNN.com

    Utah passes 'fetal pain' abortion law requiring anesthesia

    (CNN)Utah will now require doctors to provide anesthesia to women having abortions at 20 weeks of pregnancy or later.

    The law, which experts say is the first of its kind in the nation, is based on the scientifically disputed notion that a fetus can feel pain during the procedure.
    "The governor is adamantly pro-life," said a statement from Gov. Gary Herbert's office. "He believes in not only erring on the side of life, but also minimizing any pain that may be caused to an unborn child."
    [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.65098)]Gov. Gary Herbert signed a bill making Utah the first state to require doctors to give anesthesia to women having an abortion at 20 weeks of pregnancy or later.



    [/COLOR]
    Read the entire law
    Experts in the medical community and abortion rights activists blasted the measure, saying it will interfere with the relationship between a physician and a patient and promotes the medically unproven theory about fetal pain.
    Dr. Anne Davis, the consulting medical director for Physicians for Reproductive Health, said she believes no ethical doctor is going to give powerful drugs to a patient if it could harm the patient's health.
    "Imagine that I sit down with a patient and tell her what she can expect and how I'm going to take care of her and somehow I work in, 'Oh, by the way, the state has told me that I have to give this to you?' She asks, 'Why?' And I say, 'There's no benefit to you, but there will be additional risk.'"
    "How as a doctor do I live with that? This law is about stopping abortion," Davis said. "This is just another measure to deter women from getting abortions."
    'Fetal pain' laws

    Utah's law marks the first time legislation mandating anesthesia has passed, said Elizabeth Nash, a policy expert with the research organization the Guttmacher Institute. It would be a third-degree felony not to administer anesthesia to women seeking abortions who are 20 weeks along, according to the new law.
    But Utah's measure is not the first time states have used the theory of fetal pain as justification to ban abortion at 20 weeks.
    Fifteen states have moved to do that but only 12 actively ban the procedure after that time because three states are facing court challenges to laws.
    The 12 states that ban abortions after 20 weeks areAlabama, Arkansas, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. The three states facing court challenges are Arizona, Georgia and Idaho.
    In Utah, Republican Sen. Curt Bramble, who is against abortion, sponsored the legislation. Gov. Herbert signed it Monday.
    When asked if there is a cost estimate for the new anesthesia requirement or if the state government will provide subsidies to cover that expense, the governor's spokeswoman, Aimee Edwards, referred CNN to the Utah Department of Health.
    The spokesman for that department, Tom Hudachko, said there was not a fiscal note attached to the bill, and the department does not have funding to pay for anesthesia.
    Nash, of the Guttmacher Institute, said Utah's law could mean a "de facto" ban on abortions at 20 weeks or later because no doctor is going to give a patient anesthesia who doesn't need it.
    Scientific research doesn't support fetal pain theory

    The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, which represents 58,000 ob-gyns and partners in women's health, said medical best practices should be free of politics.
    "Sound health policy is best based on scientific fact and evidence-based medicine. The best health care is provided free of governmental interference in the patient-physician relationship. Personal decision-making by women and their doctors should not be replaced by political ideology," said Dr. Hal C. Lawrence, the organization's executive vice president and CEO.
    The group cited a rigorous 2005 scientific review published in the Journal of the American Medical Association that said fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester and no studies since 2005 demonstrate fetal recognition of pain.
    "Little or no evidence addresses the effectiveness of direct fetal anesthetic or analgesic techniques," according to the research in JAMA. "Similarly, limited or no data exist on the safety of such techniques for pregnant women in the context of abortion. Anesthetic techniques currently used during fetal surgery are not directly applicable to abortion procedures."
    Bramble said "science isn't settled" on the issue, and he believes that if there's even a chance that a fetus may feel pain then his bill is beneficial.
    If a woman doesn't want to have anesthesia before an abortion for whatever reason, "then that individual patient might not want to decide to have that abortion in Utah," he said.
    Dr. Sara Imershein, an obstetrician and gynecologist in Washington, D.C., said she and her colleagues routinely provide pain management options for their patients, and those options are chosen based on a patient's individual health needs.
    "It concerns me that we have personal political and ideological agendas on an absurd law. This law is designed to mislead patients against what is scientifically shown to be true," she said. "Women's health is medical, not political."

    CNN's Tony Marco contributed to this report.
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    Men passing laws to control women.
    dowcat, Janus, Lalasnake and 1 others like this.

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    20 weeks is late enough that most women have a serious issue with the pregnancy to bring them to abort at that point. If there was scientific certainty that the fetus felt pain, it may not be unreasonable, but an across the board law by politicians instead of doctors is NOT the way to go, if that's the aim (which it isn't).

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    Elite Member sprynkles's Avatar
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    Why wouldn't a Fetus feel pain? They used to think newborns couldn't.
    dexter7 likes this.

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    Elite Member stef's Avatar
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    Dr. Anne Davis, the consulting medical director for Physicians for Reproductive Health, said she believes no ethical doctor is going to give powerful drugs to a patient if it could harm the patient's health.
    "Imagine that I sit down with a patient and tell her what she can expect and how I'm going to take care of her and somehow I work in, 'Oh, by the way, the state has told me that I have to give this to you?' She asks, 'Why?' And I say, 'There's no benefit to you, but there will be additional risk.'"
    "How as a doctor do I live with that? This law is about stopping abortion," Davis said. "This is just another measure to deter women from getting abortions."
    exactly. these people don't care about fetal pain. it's just another way to make women feel guilty and shame them into not getting abortions - "look how bad you are, your poor baby will suffer and be in pain so much we have to give it anesthesia".
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    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprynkles View Post
    Why wouldn't a Fetus feel pain? They used to think newborns couldn't.
    I agree. 20 week abortions make me feel quite queasy tbh. Obviously I'd hope if someone is that far along then they are having the abortion for a serious issue.

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    We, the people who are pro-choice, have become too complacent. Laws are being passed at an alarming rate which impede our ability to exercise our legal right to choice. These lawmakers are making claims that the restrictions are to protect women, but we know that is not true. It is time for the choice movement to demand action again. We can no longer sit back and say "oh well, Roe v Wade is still the law of the land.
    You don't engage with crazies. Because they're, you know, fucking crazy. - WitchCurlGirl

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    Quote Originally Posted by stef View Post
    exactly. these people don't care about fetal pain. it's just another way to make women feel guilty and shame them into not getting abortions - "look how bad you are, your poor baby will suffer and be in pain so much we have to give it anesthesia".
    I just can't with this shit. Women who have to endure a late pregnancy termination are not doing it because they want to and with everything that a woman who is going through such an event has to deal with, the last thing they need is more politicians pointing out what a terrible person they are and that's all this law is doing.

    Anesthesia and pain management is between a doctor and a patient and that's that.
    All you can do at life is play along and hope that sometimes you get it right.

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    Chip by chip women's rights are deteriorating and we sit back and shrug.
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    Elite Member sprynkles's Avatar
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    My state just passed a law that requires abortionists to give suggestions about where to have an ultrasound before the abortion so just in case seeing it will change the woman's mind. But it's not required that she does this. Yet.

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    ^^Texas already requires it, along with some other asinine red-tape roadblocks designed to cause women to give up in frustration, or delay them long enough to where the abortion is illegal.
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    Elite Member OrangeSlice's Avatar
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    Did you see where Trump agreed that women should be punished for abortions since he considers it a crime/murder? *****head explodes*****
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    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Good news - anti-choicers will have their heads exploding today!!

    The FDA eased access to the abortion pill.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/31/he...-fda.html?_r=0

    The Food and Drug Administration stepped into the politics of abortion on Wednesday, relaxing the requirements for taking a medication that induces abortion, a move that is expected to expand access to the procedure.

    The move was a victory for abortion rights advocates who had been fighting laws in states like Texas, North Dakota and Ohio that required providers to follow the requirements on the original F.D.A. labels for the drug when conducting abortions by medication. Many doctors say the original labels, based on clinical evidence from the 1990s, were outdated and that the state laws requiring doctors to adhere to them went against accepted medical practice and made it harder for women to get abortions.

    The changes announced on Wednesday reduce the number of trips women have to make to a doctor from three to two in most states, and also increase the number of days that she has to be able to use medication to induce abortion from 49 to 70 days after the beginning of her last menstrual period, experts said. The new label also reduces the dosage of the drug, called mifepristone, from 600 milligrams to 200. Most medical societies had said the previous dosage was too high, and abortion rights advocates said it increased the cost and the side effects of the procedure.

    “This is a huge step in increasing access to medication abortion and it comports with the scientific evidence,” said Elizabeth Nash, a senior state issues associate at the Guttmacher Institute, which tracks women’s reproductive health issues. She said that medication abortions accounted for about a quarter of all abortions in 2011, the last year measured by the institute.

    In most states, doctors had been following the medically-accepted regimen, despite the fact that the label advised otherwise — a practice that is fairly common in medicine and is known as off-label use. But in recent years legislators in a number of states have sought to impose legal requirements that doctors follow the F.D.A. label for abortion medication, saying they were trying to protect womens’ health.

    Such restrictions have passed but then been blocked by court order in Arkansas, Oklahoma and Arizona. Arizona legislators have passed yet another measure that tries to maintain the original F.D.A. protocol, but it has not yet been signed into law.

    The F.D.A. first approved the drug, formerly known as RU-486, in 2000. It works by blocking receptors of progesterone, an important hormone in pregnancy. When taken with another drug, misoprostol, it induces miscarriage. It is different from the so-called morning after pill, which prevents pregnancy.

    But the rules on the label were based on clinical trials completed in the late 1990s, according to advocates, and new evidence had emerged showing that taking lower doses was preferable and that a woman could take the medication safely up to 70 days from the beginning of her last menstrual period.

    The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists said in a statement that it was “pleased that the updated FDA-approved regimen for mifepristone reflects the current available scientific evidence and best practices.”

    The group added that “medication abortion has been subject to legislative attacks in various states across the country, including mandated regimens that do not reflect the current scientific evidence. We hope that these states take the FDA label into account.”

    Planned Parenthood, which has fought the state laws, said in a statement: “The benefit of this announcement will be most immediately felt by women and providers in Ohio, Texas and North Dakota,” states that have laws requiring medication abortion to be provided according to the original label.

    Since the F.D.A. approved the medication, states have passed a number of different laws to restrict its use. Some require medical professionals who administer the drug to be licensed physicians, and not nurses or physician assistants. Other states require the prescribing doctor to be physically present with the patient, a rule that abortion rights advocates say blocks rural women from receiving the medication through telemedicine.

    Dr. Raegan McDonald-Mosley, chief medical officer of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, said the change would reduce confusion among patients who had to sign two sets of consent forms, one with the regimen recommended by much of medical science and one that detailed the requirements on the F.D.A. label.

    “Now those two things are in sync,” she said.

    Dr. McDonald-Mosley said that medication abortion is an increasingly popular method: About half of women in Planned Parenthood clinics who fall within the time limit choose it.




    Jan Hoffman contributed reporting.
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    Sad women must rely on the FDA for personal health advocacy.

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    Elite Member ConstanceSpry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeSlice View Post
    Did you see where Trump agreed that women should be punished for abortions since he considers it a crime/murder? *****head explodes*****
    Yes, especially ridiculous (and hypocritical) because he tried to bully Marla Maples into having an abortion.
    'I had to get rid of the kid. The cat was allergic.'

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