Results 1 to 10 of 10
Like Tree4Likes
  • 1 Post By Waterslide
  • 1 Post By McJag
  • 2 Post By Brookie

Thread: 600-year-old linen bras found

  1. #1
    Elite Member WhateverLolaWants's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    13,660

    Default 600-year-old linen bras found

    This story speaks to my costume geek and my history nerdery, so I'll share it.


    600-year-old linen bras found in Austrian castle

    This undated picture publicly provided by the Archeological Institute of the University of Innsbruck, shows a medieval bra. The bra is commonly thought to be little more than 100 years old as corseted women abandoned rigid fashions and opted for the more natural look. But that timeline is about to be revised with the discovery of four brassieres from the Middle Ages in a debris-filled vault of an Austrian castle. The find, formally announced Wednesday July 18, 2012 by the University of Innsbruck, is being described by historical fashion experts as revolutionary because it indicates that the bra was already worn around 600 years ago before being abandoned for the stiff stays dictated by the form-hugging clothing that become the mode for centuries. (AP Photo/University Innsbruck Archeological Institute) (AP) — A revolutionary discovery is rewriting the history of underwear: Some 600 years ago, women wore bras. Ads by Google The Tudor Shoppe - Renaissance & Medieval costume, jewelry, circlets, weapons, armour - Renaissance Costumes, Medieval Clothing, Madrigal Costume: The Tudor Shoppe The University of Innsbruck said Wednesday that archeologists found four linen bras dating from the Middle Ages in an Austrian castle. Fashion experts describe the find as surprising because the bra had commonly been thought to be only little more than 100 years old as women abandoned the tight corset. Instead, it appears the bra came first, followed by the corset, followed by the reinvented bra. One specimen in particular "looks exactly like a (modern) brassiere," says Hilary Davidson, fashion curator for the London Museum. "These are amazing finds." Although the linen garments were unearthed in 2008, they did not make news until now says Beatrix Nutz, the archaeologist responsible for the discovery. Researching the items and carbon dating them to make sure they were genuine took some time. She delivered a lecture on them last year but the information stayed within academic circles until a recent article in the BBC History Magazine. Enlarge This undated picture publicly provided by the Archeological Institute of the University of Innsbruck, shows medieval underwear. The find, formally announced Wednesday by the University of Innsbruck, is being described by historical fashion experts as revolutionary because it indicates that the bra was already worn around 600 years ago before being abandoned for the stiff stays dictated by the form-hugging clothing that become the mode for centuries. Also found at Lemberg Castle in Tyrol was a linen undergarment that looks very much like a pair of panties. (AP Photo/University Innsbruck Archeological Institute) "We didn't believe it ourselves," she said in a telephone call from the Tyrolean city of Innsbruck. "From what we knew, there was no such thing as bra-like garments in the 15th century." The university said the four bras were among more than 2,700 textile fragments — some linen, others linen combined with cotton — that were found intermixed with dirt, wood, straw and pieces of leather. "Four linen textiles resemble modern-time bras" with distinct cups and one in particular looks like today's version, it said, with "two broad shoulder straps and a possible back strap, not preserved but indicated by partially torn edges of the cups onto which it was attached." And the lingerie was not only functional. The bras were intricately decorated with lace and other ornamentation, the statement said, suggesting they were also meant to please a suitor. While paintings of the era show outerwear, they do not reveal what women wore beneath. Davidson, the fashion curator, described the finds as "kind of a missing link" in the history of women's underwear. Women started experimenting with bra-like garments in the late 1800s and the first modern brassiere was patented in the early 19th century. It is thought to have been invented by New York socialite Mary Phelps Jacob, who was unhappy with the look of her gown over a stiff corset. Also found at Lemberg Castle in Tyrol was a linen undergarment that looks very much like a pair of panties. But Nutz said it is men's underwear — women did not wear anything under their flowing skirts back then. "Underpants were considered a symbol of male dominance and power," she said. Medieval drawings often show a man and a woman fighting for a pair of underpants in a symbolic battle to see who "wears the trousers" in the family.




    I would like to hear more about the hypothesis that the lace and flowers were to impress a suitor. For a wealthy woman, if the garment was indeed commonly used, there isn't much reason why one would assume the garment was adorned to please a suitor and not the wearer. I understand the panties conclusion, though I have questions about that, too, but considering brassiers have no precedent for the era, I think immediately assuming they were meant to pelase the viewer and not the wearer shows the fingerprints of a modern interpretation of a former era.
    Then again, this could totally be the contents of a medieval or dark age 'naughty drawer'
    Last edited by WhateverLolaWants; July 21st, 2012 at 05:00 PM.
    ----------------------------
    There will be times you might leap before you look
    There'll be times you'll like the cover and that's precisely why you'll love the book
    Do it anyway

  2. #2
    Elite Member Waterslide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    out where the buses don't run
    Posts
    10,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WhateverLolaWants View Post
    This story speaks to my costume geek and my history nerdery, so I'll share it.
    Me too! I saw this story and thought it was so cool! I am so interested in whether it was actually a bra or, like you said, just a naughty drawer piece of apparel.



    I'd also love to see the painting of the medieval man and woman fighting over the underpants!
    WhateverLolaWants likes this.
    Gross, put it away. You could dress beautifully but you gotta be Miss Granny Panty Whore.
    ~Manx Mouse

    Life is a hell of a thing to happen to a person.

  3. #3
    Elite Member MsChiff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    ♥In your heart ♥
    Posts
    5,752

    Default

    my mom will love this article. will have to show her.

  4. #4
    Elite Member Kat Scorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Down Under in Boganville
    Posts
    3,315

    Default

    It irritates me that the first assumption about the bra's lace is that it is designed to "please a suitor". How many men where Austrian women back then flashing their tits at before marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterslide View Post
    I'd also love to see the painting of the medieval man and woman fighting over the underpants!
    Couldn't find the paintings she was referring to; this was all my googling came up with - seems to be a man and a woman fighting over some cloth in the centre of the melee.


    This has to be the strangest painting in the Loeb. Titled, "Who Wears the Pants has the Power"
    by Adriaen Pietersz van de Venne, Flemish, early 17th Century.
    Hard to make out, there is a group of woman, some presenting bare buttocks, being spanked by a man behind the mass of figures, overseen by a man with pants hanging down loosely below the knees, it is the strangest subject. Sort of salacious but also with a message, maybe an early women's lib pitch? Weird but amusing.
    source: Tom Swope's blog: Vassar Loeb Art Center

  5. #5
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    42,527

    Default

    That looks exactly like my favorite lavender lace bra after my gay poodle attacked it in a very loving way.
    cherrypye likes this.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  6. #6
    Elite Member pinkbunnyslippers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    99 miles from NYC
    Posts
    4,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WhateverLolaWants View Post
    This story speaks to my costume geek and my history nerdery, so I'll share it.

    Do you know this site? Fashion History Costume Trends and Eras, Trends Victorians - Haute Couture I've spent so much time reading about the history of clothing, fashion trends, costumes, etc. There are photos of old advertisements and drawings.
    The timeline is from Regency, to the 1990's, and some stuff for the 2000's.
    "Fashion is an art, but individuality is the key"

  7. #7
    Elite Member WhateverLolaWants's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    13,660

    Default

    Oh yes! I've actually only gone through it once, but its a really fun site
    ----------------------------
    There will be times you might leap before you look
    There'll be times you'll like the cover and that's precisely why you'll love the book
    Do it anyway

  8. #8
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    32,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat Scorp View Post
    It irritates me that the first assumption about the bra's lace is that it is designed to "please a suitor". How many men where Austrian women back then flashing their tits at before marriage?

    as many as they are now. people haven't changed all that much and we didn't invent fucking for pleasure.
    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  9. #9
    Elite Member OrangeSlice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Studying with Master Grumpy Cat
    Posts
    9,402

    Default

    Hell, those things look more comfortable than some of the monstrosities now days.
    "Schadenfreude, hard to spell, easy to feel." ~VenusinFauxFurs

    "Scoffing is one of my main hobbies!" ~Trixie

  10. #10
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In the "D"
    Posts
    21,039

    Default

    That painting looks like a typical purse scrum at a Nordie's outlet. Butts in the air, weapons brandished.
    McJag and witchcurlgirl like this.
    Life is short. Break the Rules. Forgive Quickly. Kiss Slowly. Love Truly.
    Laugh Uncontrollably. And never regret ANYTHING that makes you smile.

    - Mark Twain

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Teri Hatcher: tan linen-y thing
    By olivia720 in forum Famous Style
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: June 11th, 2009, 02:47 PM
  2. Dr. Dre's 20 year old son found dead
    By Laxmobster in forum Latest Gossip
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: August 27th, 2008, 01:09 PM
  3. 2 year-old boy found dead in the snow
    By Moongirl in forum News
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: January 4th, 2008, 02:46 PM
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: September 10th, 2006, 08:00 PM
  5. Replies: 11
    Last Post: March 29th, 2006, 11:32 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •